Using a step van as a car hauler..

[Tiago Santos]

[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]I've been trying to figure out a decent towing arrangement for the Vee.. Lots of options, lots of different prices, and of course, I don't know enough about anything to make up my mind.

At the moment, I tow the vee on an open trailer with my volvo wagon. It does OK getting to our local track 1 hour away, but I don't feel comfortable towing longer distances, really. I can't really fit everything I need (easily, at least..) on the back of the wagon, so I leave some stuff at home on Friday and take it with me Saturday morning. Also means I can't take the dog with me, no room in the back!

I thought about getting a bigger tow vehicle and keep using the open trailer:

I don't really need a truck for anything else and although you can fit a lot of stuff in the bed of a truck, it's not easily organized.. With a canopy, you can't walk inside the bed and pick things up, seems like it'd get annoying fast.

A van seems ideal - it would still tow the trailer easily, but it's easily organized in the back so I could keep everything inside in shelves/boxes and walk in to grab things. Plus if I get a decent cargo van, I can lock it up behind the house and leave most things inside between weekends. Maybe move the tools to the garage and leave the cheap spares, tires, tent, chairs, etc in the van.

Downside to the van is I'd still be towing an open trailer, so heading down to the states, especially longer trips like ORP or Portland where I might have to stay overnight somewhere, would suck. And at the moment, I can't afford a decent van and a decent enclosed trailer. Of course, I could buy the van now and upgrade the trailer later, but.. option #3 might work better - see below!

Option #3.. a nice step van popped up for sale a couple blocks from my house. I've been walking past this van for a year and thinking that it would be a great car hauler, and last night a 'for sale' sign was on the window. 89 Grumman body with a 92 chevy 350 engine, looks to be in decent shape and has the big wide roll up door in the back (for some reason these wide doors are rare in Vancouver, from what I've been seeing on Craigslist). It's a decent price and I could easily afford it right away. Seems ideal to me, build some long arse ramps, slap a winch inside and presto, instant tow vehicle. I believe it already has shelving in the back, and it's an 18ft box - more than enough for the car and a big work bench, plus room to sleep/rest, change clothes, etc. Seems perfect to me, but I've been known to miss obvious drawbacks with things before, so I'd love to hear some opinions.

Only thing I can think of is, it's a 24-25ft long vehicle. Which means I can't just un-hook a trailer and go shopping in my little van/truck, trips to Save on Foods will be limited or cumbersome, etc. But that may be compensated by not having to un-hook at all, ever. I'm really not a fan of towing things..

Sorry for the long post, but what do you guys think? [/SIZE][/SIZE]

[Matt King]

It's an interesting idea I've toyed with myself. I think it comes down to 1) the ease of loading the car and 2) whether you really want to have such a limited use vehicle dedicated exclusively to being a tow rig. With a cargo van or truck you may be more likely to use it as a dual purpose vehicle.

[Mike Holland]

Like this?

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44795

[Tiago Santos]

It would definitely be harder to load than the typical enclosed trailer, but hopefully with long enough ramps and an electric winch, it shouldn't be too bad.. My current open trailer is unnecessarily high too, so it would probably be just as bad to load. Except I'd splurge for the electric winch, which I didn't on the open trailer. I've been resisting spending money on the open trailer, but it could use some much better ramps and a decent winch.


I think in the almost 3 years I've lived in Vancouver, I've only felt the need for a truck twice (other than towing, of course..).. Once was buying soil for our flower beds, where a truckload would have been much cheaper than buying lots of bags, and moving - and a step van would have been awesome for moving, actually!

It's a good point, but I rarely ever feel like I need a truck or a big vehicle.. And other than the soil thing, I can't remember ever needing a vehicle for anything that the volvo wagon and a step van wouldn't cover! And in the off chance that I might need a truck a couple times a year, I might be better off renting or borrowing one..

Commuting would suck in a truck/van, traffic and parking would make it very tough.. And it only ever snows once or twice a year, and never enough to give the wagon any trouble on snow tires..

[Tiago Santos]

Like this?

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44795

Yes, exactly I thought about buying that one, but apparently the Canadian import laws say I can't.. It was a bit over my budget, but it seemed perfect when it came up for sale.

[R. Pare]

Since you are in the limited budget catagory, think about this:

1 - Use a standard van for the tow vehicle - with the proper extra cooling and towing packages, of course. Dave Weitzenhof has used one for well over 20 years now with no real issues that I know of. He has the back nicely organized with his tools and a lot of the usual supplies that he needs, and has curtained off the front so that the AC only has to handle the cabin area on hot days.

2 - You already have a trailer platform, so just spend a couple hundred bucks and enclose it using wood. No need to get super fancy if you goal is to keep the car out of the weather and the things that could sprout legs easily away from prying eyes on overnight stops.

Too many racers forget that their goal is to race, and instead spend more on their tow equipment than is really needed - most tow equipment is of the ego-feed nature than the really-must-have nature.

[Tiago Santos]

I completely agree that it's easy (and sometimes silly) to spend too much money on a towing setup. Considering my FV cost me 5 or 6 grand, I have a hard time even thinking of spending 10 grand for a towing rig. Sure, if I was driving an 80 grand car, meh, I'd probably want the Turbo Diesel Super Duty F350 dually with the biggest goose neck trailer I could find.. You know, to fit in

With that said, the step van I'm looking at has an asking price of $4000.. Which is realistically the same price as a decent standard van.

I wouldn't call my trailer much of a 'platform' either! I bought it for $400 bucks and it shows, it's old, rusty and, with my limited fabrication skills at least, I really don't want to spend much money polishing a turd.. It's a single axle with no brakes too, so I'm not sure I'd want to add more weight to it either..

I appreciate the input, and using a standard (E150/250 or equivalent, or even an astro/safari if I'm to keep using an open trailer..) is definitely one of my options.. But price wise, they would probably be around the same, eventually more money if I wanted to upgrade or improve the trailer. With the step van, the cost of ramps and winch might also be offset by selling my current trailer (it's a turd, but has brand new tires!)

[rickjohnson356]

my vote would be to get the local step van.

use the volvo for a daily driver.

a 2000 lb winch is less than 100.00 at harbor freight or northern tool.

folding ramps are around $150.00 at the same places. just be sure to verify the load rating for each ramp. some ramps are only rated for 500 lbs. each. you have to look for the 750 lb rated ones. fv weight is less than 1000 lbs, so 1500 lb rating (total) will work.

i have an older, tall open trailer and use this setup for FC (1200 lbs) and FST with no problem.

if you need additional length, use wood 2x8-8ft on a cinder block (or some kind of base)

build the inside of the van as you get the money later on.

when you get done racing, you can put the van on Apex, there are a lot of folks who are in the same situation as you are now.

Richard Pare is right, no need to be in a position to not race because you have a great, Featherlight trailer with all the pit-pal doo-dads.

[Purple Frog]

Maybe the only drawback. There is a reason you don't see step vans making long runs down the super slab. They are not real comfortable cruisers. Upgrading seats can help. Figuring out a passenger seat (even if only for the dog) is an important thing.

They are also almost impossible to air/condition on the road. A big issue in the SE US, maybe not an issue in the NW.

Do you have a place to park it that will not get the neighbors calling the zoning board?

Otherwise, go for it.



OBTW, A rooftop RV A/C unit and a small generator can turn it into a near palace in the paddock.

[carnut169]

My vote is for the regular van and open trailer. An E350 if possible.

You'll spend a lot of $$ on fuel as you watch your friends blow past you on the highway (those things go 65mph and get 10mpg). You'll spend more than you think preparing it for use as a car hauler/ tool hauler/ etc, and if you decide to sell it, not many will want it. On top of that you'll have an older vehicle that was probably used everyday as a delivery vehicle- a pretty hard life.

Next year you can sell the open trailer and buy a lightweight 18' enclosed trailer for not much more $$ and your set. Probably by the time you picked up a generator, a better seat, ramps, roof A/C, a pass seat, e-track to secure everything, etc- you could have purchased the enclosed trailer.

[problemchild]

Carnut's comments are spot one. I've towed various FVs around for decades on open trailers and never had any security issues. Its a FV. I worry way more now with duallies and enclosed trailers than I ever did before. The only real negative is that the car is dirty when you get there ..... which is about the same as it will be after several laps behind other FVs.
Good open trailers go anywhere, including track tunnels, and usually can travel as fast as the police enforcement will allow. You save hrs in travel time and plenty of fuel.

[Jerry B.]

89 Grumman body with a 92 chevy 350 engine, looks to be in decent shape and has the big wide roll up door in the back (for some reason these wide doors are rare in Vancouver,



It's a throttle body 350 ci Chev v8 on gasoline and probably an automatic trans. Those things usualy were/are bread wagons or Fritos vans. High cube but not a lot of weight.....not much in the h.p. department...maybe 180.

With tools spares and the trailer youd have a pretty good load. Milage might be 6 or maybe 7 on a good day. Big frontal area.

You will have a dedicated vehicle that needs insurance, care, and feeding.

A 3/4 or 1 ton van will have dual use....if you can find a carbureted van with a v8 and has been in in private hands your ahead in this .....enclose your single axle trailer.....frame it in 1/2" square toob and 1/4" plywood. Keep it light. Tool box on the trailer and mebbe a tire rack. In the van a fold down bed and some shelves.

[RussMcB]

Used U-Hauls trucks are pretty cheap ($4-$5K USD for trucks with ~200k mi.). I considered getting one (17' or 24') but the floors (and roof) are pretty high (even the ones touted as having low, easy loading).

Might not be bad for a vee, though.

http://www.uhaul.com/TruckSales/

I had an old 17' Ryder truck years ago. The ramps kinda continued into the box to make the loading angle easier. My small IT race car sat up off the floor a little bit, which provided some extra storage space under the tires. I slept in "Mom's Attic". When it rained it was like being in a snare drum.

[Tiago Santos]

Carnut - unfortunately trading the open trailer for an enclosed one won't be just a little bit more! I'd be lucky to get $300-400 for my trailer. An 18' enclosed trailer easily goes for 5 grand up here. Not even talking about brand new ones.. I agree that fitting the inside of the step van with all the fancy amenities would get expensive, but most trailers need those things too! I believe the step van I'm looking at already has shelving, so to get going I really only need ramps (a couple hundred bucks at metal supermarkets and a few planks of wood from home depot should take care of that..) and a winch.


Russ - I wish uhaul trucks were that cheap up here! On the same note, I wish trailers were that cheap up here. A 16-18ft trailer in decent shape will easily sell for 5 grand.. Buying one in the states is a possibility, but a hassle nonetheless, and with taxes and import fees, it would still not be anywhere near the price you guys can get them for.

With tools spares and the trailer youd have a pretty good load. Milage might be 6 or maybe 7 on a good day. Big frontal area.

You will have a dedicated vehicle that needs insurance, care, and feeding.

The point would be to not have a trailer at all.. I would imagine the total weight would be less than a standard van, considering there would be no trailer. My current open trailer has to be close to 1000lbs, an enclosed trailer is what, 3000lbs? I don't think the step van is that much heavier, if at all, than a 3/4 or 1 ton van.. Still I fully expect mileage to be horrible! I'm just not convinced it would be much better with ANY truck or van within my budget If I could afford a nice 2000's van that would get 15-20mpg while towing, I probably would.. But it's just not even a remote possibility..

The insurance is a non-issue - the step van or any other van will only be insured on day permits, for the times I need it. Not sure if it works the same way in the states, but up here, we can get daily permits (15 bucks for the permit and 12 bucks per day, so about 60 bucks for a weekend). The rest of the time it'll sit on storage insurance, out of public roads.

I'm really not worried at all about dual-use - whatever I get, will be a dedicated race car hauler. I have no need for a truck or van at the current time other than getting the vee to the track! I work in an office on the center of a densely populated city, live right smack in the middle of the suburbs, there's no mud or gravel anywhere in sight, snow is a non-issue, none of my other hobbies involve any need for a big vehicle.. I don't do any house maintenance since I live in a rented house.. I have 2 other cars that I can daily drive (a sedan and a wagon) so I can't imagine ever needing a truck/van other than the specific purpose I'm buying this for. That might change, but..



I realize I'm probably being defensive and just convincing myself further, but I guess I'm looking for more of a logistical reason why it would be a bad idea. The dual use thing just doesn't really apply, whatever it is that I get, will always be a dedicated vehicle.

[rickb99]

Option #3.. a nice step van popped up for sale a couple blocks from my house. I've been walking past this van for a year and thinking that it would be a great car hauler, and last night a 'for sale' sign was on the window. 89 Grumman body with a 92 chevy 350 engine, looks to be in decent shape and has the big wide roll up door in the back (for some reason these wide doors are rare in Vancouver, from what I've been seeing on Craigslist). It's a decent price and I could easily afford it right away. Seems ideal to me, build some long arse ramps, slap a winch inside and presto, instant tow vehicle. I believe it already has shelving in the back, and it's an 18ft box - more than enough for the car and a big work bench, plus room to sleep/rest, change clothes, etc. Seems perfect to me, but I've been known to miss obvious drawbacks with things before, so I'd love to hear some opinions.

Tiago,

Somebody beat you to it out here! Have not seen him for a couple of years but I'm pretty sure he's out of Canada.

Used a step van to haul a rotary Mazda powered sports racer that had removable fenders to run FL also. Was a pretty neat rig and he had it set up for camping at the track too. Used a GOOD wench to get car in and out.

As long as you "fix it up" nice and maintain it, should work out fine for runs from Vancouver to Portland and an occasional Thunderhill.

[Matt King]

If a step van fits your needs and budget, go for it. I think the reason you don't see more of them is simply that for most people they are not the most practical or cost-effective solution to the need for a tow vehicle.

[Tiago Santos]

If a step van fits your needs and budget, go for it. I think the reason you don't see more of them is simply that for most people they are not the most practical or cost-effective solution to the need for a tow vehicle.

Thanks Matt. I'll definitely go take a closer look at it tonight and take it from there. I agree that if I already had a truck or wanted one for whatever reason, a trailer would make perfect sense.

So far, it looks like the drawbacks in my personal case will be:

- Comfort on the road.. Not the best seats apparently.
- Road noise and rattles - Looks like these things are horribly loud. I've been told spray on foam works wonders, even if it's not the prettiest thing to look at.
- Harder to (un)load than a normal enclosed trailer. Hopefully a decent ramp solution will sort it out, but it'll never be quite as easy as a low to the ground enclosed trailer. If the electric winch ever breaks down, I'll be one unhappy non-racer

[Tiago Santos]

Tiago,

Somebody beat you to it out here! Have not seen him for a couple of years but I'm pretty sure he's out of Canada.

Used a step van to haul a rotary Mazda powered sports racer that had removable fenders to run FL also. Was a pretty neat rig and he had it set up for camping at the track too. Used a GOOD wench to get car in and out.

As long as you "fix it up" nice and maintain it, should work out fine for runs from Vancouver to Portland and an occasional Thunderhill.

Hehe.. I've seen a couple step or cube vans at various tracks, but it's usually one or two out of a hundred or so. Hard to tell if they're idiots or geniuses

[Purple Frog]

The ramps for a FV just are not that big a deal. At the track you can always get help to push it in. I used a Northern Tool $100 winch for years with no issue to load a FC up on top of cabinets in a trailer.

I would set it up so it sits on the van floor. Then when it's out, you won't be tripping over ramps inside. I built some real light ramps recently, maybe i can dig up some pictures.

If you are talented with tools, I still say go for it.


But, I'll stick with my E350 Ford van.

[Dave Welsh]

As a retired UPS driver, I can tell you that a step van is a very uncomfortable mode of transportation. The engine noise, road noise, and all the rattles over every bump, the rock hard springs that shake the fillings out of teeth would make for a long trip. It is one thing to drive one of these things a mile or two at a time, versus sitting in the seat for prolonged periods.

Oh, and I froze my a$$ off during the winter (in Florida no less) as the heater is a joke.

Just my 2 cents.

[R. Pare]

Used a GOOD wench to get car in and out.

And if she is a real looker, you'll probably get all sorts of volunteers for help as well!

[Tiago Santos]

And if she is a real looker, you'll probably get all sorts of volunteers for help as well!

[Tiago Santos]

Went over to take a better look at it and of course, the damn thing is 1.5 feet too long. My parking space in the back is exactly 24.5ft, van is 26ft. It would stick out onto the back alley and that's a big no-no apparently. Great..

Well, the search goes on!

[rickb99]

And if she is a real looker, you'll probably get all sorts of volunteers for help as well!

LOL figures somebody would catch that one

Wench Winch gotta love this place.

[brownslane]

Tiago, I have been hauling for the past 30 years. Since the Eighties I have always had a van. It is my mian driver now. I picked up a conversion van (you know the high top, leather seats, etc) down in Louisville a couple of years ago. Eight months old, half the price of new, and still under warranty. With a 5.3 L gas motor, it gets 20 mpg on the highway unloaded and last month got 14 mpg hauling a 32-footer at 60 mph average over 3,700 miles.

My point is that the van is properly equipped (including all the safety stuff you would not get in a step van) , comfortable over long hauls (saves you from getting to the track a shagged out nervous wreck) and is eminently suitable for every day and track use.

Save the money on insurance, the extra problems with one more vehicle for parking, and get a van. Sell the Volvo or don't bother replacing it when it wears out (should take another 20 years or so), and get a van.

I have hauled all across the continent from the Atlantic to California....all in a van. Often with a trailer on the back. Never a problem...

Save up your pennies and get a good used trailer. There are lots out there if you really look...but you are gonna have to cross the Great Divide to get the deals....I have my fully equipped 26 footer (tool boxes, genset, awning, 110V light, etc...for sale less than $5G's) I can get you an 18 to 20 footer for less than $5G NEW here in Ontario...

Use the van to transport the people, use the trailer to transport the car and tools/spares. This is the best option for me.

Now that I am old and fat, I have bought a motorhome for track use. But I still use the van for most all of my hauling other than races.

Best,

[R. Pare]

LOL figures somebody would catch that one

Wench Winch gotta love this place.

For some guys, any wench will do in a pinch, good or bad!

[Tiago Santos]

some examples of the madness that is buying an enclosed trailer locally:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pm...442321282.html

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rd...442204717.html

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pm...437009542.html

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rd...436868775.html

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rd...432409503.html

[brownslane]

a new business venture! Tiago, those prices are about 30% MORE than equivalent to where I found my 32 footer. Look in racingjunk.com

You could buy my 26 footer and pay the gas both ways for less than what my trailer is worth on your side of the mountain!

Best, Tom