My Swift DB-3 FC Conversion

[RussMcB]

My project has started well. The Pinto engine is sold, as well as a few other things, and still have more to sell (good thing). I should have right around $12K when done unloading Pinto/FC parts.

I thought I was ready today to purchase some of the Honda kits and parts and get started with engine/transmission assembly soon, but, after doing the math, realized my Plan A (to buy the engine, engine kit and *some* of the chassis kit parts now), would end up costing quite a bit more. Turns out, not too surprisingly, buying the HPD DB-1 Complete Kit saves quite a bit compared to buying things individually.

That revelation may delay my debut a bit, but that's OK. I don't have a self imposed deadline (although being ready for the ARRC would be nice).

Speaking of revelations, for some reason I thought FF used 6" wheels, of which I have six from the FC fronts. Duh. So, that means selling sets of FC wheels and getting 5.5" wheels.

My new-to-me DB-3 chassis seems quite nice. From what I gather I will be able to use the same bodywork in FF. I think the bellhousing is the same as the DB-1, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the DB-1 kit from HPD will be pretty close to what I need. If I'm lucky I may get away with only fabricating a front engine mount to accommodate the slightly longer engine bay.

I'm excited. I think the end product will be a great combination of performance and reliability and will let me concentrate on driving a fun car in a great class.

[Rick Ross]

Sounds good, Russ. I think that you made a great choice. In my opinion, a Honda powered FF is one of the best options in club racing these days. If I was going to change classes today, I would either buy a Honda FF or a Zetec FC.

[Bill Steele]

Russ,

Forgive me if I am going over ground you already covered but Tim Wise has done a conversion on his DB6 and did it for considerably less than $12K (I think). Have you discusssed the in's and out's of his project, it seemed pretty compelling from a value standpoint.

Just a thought.

[TimW]

Russ,

Forgive me if I am going over ground you already covered but Tim Wise has done a conversion on his DB6 and did it for considerably less than $12K (I think). Have you discusssed the in's and out's of his project, it seemed pretty compelling from a value standpoint.

Just a thought.

I did it for considerably less than $12k net. The key word is net. I still spent over $10.3k to HPD & another $3k in the core and other parts/labor I couldn't do. My upside was selling my Kent and all the spares I had accumulated and getting my core Fit parts not needed in the conversion on eBay. ~$13k out and ~$8k in is about where it ended up. Part of the ~$8k in is based on runoffs contingency HPD covered last year for Honda drivers which I understand they will again (that is simply expense I will incur that I won't have to pay thanks to having the Fit and applied that savings to my conversion line item, not my future runoffs line item...thats really the only creative accounting that gets me to that number and frankly its not all that creative). I had budgeted $4500 to rebuild the Kent, so if the Fit ends up like the Zetec with regards to life & eventual equalization this hopefully keeps me in Fords for the foreseeable future with not a much bigger cash outlay than the much deferred kent rebuild.

Funny thing is HPD only took credit cards for payment...the 1% cashback didn't get into the net conversion equation...as it came in a nordstrom gift card. I understand another household member has some very nice new unpractical shoes thanks to the Honda program....

Russ, you may be able to get the DB6 top motor mount in your DB1 kit and it quite possibly would work. Not sure if the DB3 wheelbase and bell housing lengths are the same as the DB6. If it is you may be golden.

[RussMcB]

Thanks. Great info. Good to know about the great resources. I'm glad several people have conversion experience and they're sharing.

How much the conversion will cost me is really hard to pin down, mainly because of all the wheeling & dealing I've been doing (and need to continue). I'm leaning towards purchasing the complete DB-1 (or DB-6) kit from HPD. It includes three sub-kits: a new engine, an engine kit and a chassis kit. I could vary, such as get a used engine, but the new engine is very attractive.

[BWC54]

I'm leaning towards purchasing the complete DB-1 (or DB-6) kit from HPD.

What gearbox do you have? If it's a Mk-9 you should get the DB-1 kit so you get the input shaft for the Mk-9. The DB-6 has a Staffs gearbox. Do you have a DB-3 or DB-3/89?

[RussMcB]

Good points. I have a 1987 DB-3 with a Hewland.

[RussMcB]

Well, I wont win any awards for super fast work, but I've finally gotten the conversion finished enough to get it off the saw horses and out of the garage. It needs a good alignment, a seat and then load it up for the Thursday test day at Road Atlanta to find out what it needs before its race debut later this spring.

[TimW]

Looks great Russ! What did you do with the top half of the roll bar cover? Did you make the rear deck to match the lower roll bar cover height? Or is the top black and I just can't see due to the photo contrast?

Also, did the 8 Malf code go away? Haven't started mine since I got the ECU back so curious what is up with that.

Tim

[RussMcB]

Thanks, Tim.

My engine cover has not been modified (by me). The DB-3's engine cover is different than the DB-1 or DB-6. I heard they did it to expose the hoop for towing, then did it nicer with the DB-6 version. I think it is the least attractive part of the car by far and I plan to replace it when I get around to the bodywork/paint.

Here's a picture of the car as an FC: http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44421

My LED flashes 8 times consistently. I think it is a new bug. See post #30 here: http://hondaff.yuku.com/topic/101/Re...-Start?page=-1

[andyllc]

Hey Russ
Are you sure that it is a DB-3 and not the SE-3? Looks more like the SE-3 tail and roll bar hoop. Our DB-3 had a different shaped tail and the same roll bar hoop as the DB-1.
Looks great, I am sure you are excited to get it on track.

[RussMcB]

Mine is definitely a DB-3, but who know what may have happened with the body work in the last 24 years. :-).

I'm leaning towards getting one of these. I like the look. Hopefully it can be adapted to my stuff.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...3&d=1297441405

[ghickman]

The DB3 had the same style engine cover and roll hoop cover as the DB1. My shop made most of them back in the day.

Russ it looks like you have an SE3 engine cover in my opinion. Your car looks great, nice work as usual.

The SCCA wasn't too keen on the DB1 / DB3 the way the roll hoop was enclosed. As I recall in order to get the homologation on the DB6 the hoop cover and eng. cover were lowered to satisfy them.

[DaveZ]

Good job, Russ, and congrats on getting it done! My last "current" FF before the Piper was originally Doug Learned's DB3-89, with which they won the F2000 pro series in '89 (or '90?). It was lost for many years, re-surfaced, then I acquired it and converted it to a 1600 in '99. Absolutely great car, fast, and easy to set up and maintain. You should do well with yours, especially now that you won't have to worry about engine issues!

Re the ECU and Tim's comment -- I have fired mine up several times since the re-program, and it definitely starts with about 1/2 the cranking that it used to... a real plus, especially if you''re running a small-ish battery, like an 18 amp/hour. Haven't driven it in anger yet, so don't know if there's any change in drive-ability. Shouldn't be.

Good luck with your testing!

DaveZ

[TimW]

I'm leaning towards getting one of these. I like the look. Hopefully it can be adapted to my stuff.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...3&d=1297441405

You should be able to get both that deck and a DB6 roll bar shroud from Wava (and thus the inlet ducting to fit too). It should all work if you use the individual pieces consistently. I know Porters DB6's run the DB1 roll bar shrouds and higher rear decks, so the DB1/3 should be able to go the other way likely.

[provamo]

looks great!

[Brands]

looks great Russ, lovely job. I'll try and swing by the track on Thursday and say hello.

[Gary_T]

Good job Russ - looking great!

As to the engine cover - it looks very much the same as my SE-1 cover. Although, in a similar situation as you, I don't know if it's the original or been adapted from something else.

Gary

[RussMcB]

Thanks for all the interesting comments. I assumed my engine cover was stock, but sounds like I was wrong.

As to the engine cover - it looks very much the same as my SE-1 cover. Although, in a similar situation as you, I don't know if it's the original or been adapted from

Need a spare? I'll give you a good deal! :-)

[Swift17]

.............. the blue and yellow are reminicent of the ol' "J.L.P.Racing" team out of Georgia - The car looks GREAT Russ. (I will NOT be at RA on Thursday - r u coming to Road Atlanta this weekend if not to race but then to watch on Fri/Sat/Sun?)

EJ

[RussMcB]

r u coming to Road Atlanta this weekend if not to race but then to watch on Fri/Sat/Sun?)

EJ

Yes, I'm looking forward to watching the races (maybe only Saturday) and checking out the Swifts there. The FF field is pretty big, and all fast cars and drivers. I'll make a point to stop and say hi. Good luck this weekend.

[Sean Maisey]

Hope your test later this week goes well.

The car looks great.

Sean

[Rick Kirchner]

Isn't the DB-1 enclosed DB-6 open roll bar thing due to an old FC rule that says no bodywork can be higher than the roll bar?

The VD 90-97 FC covers all have that silly cut-out, and I believe it was due to that rule.

I wonder if it was to limit wing height, or to keep away from F5000 style scoops.......

[Swift17]

Warning: Old age may have an effect in this response: When Florida Sports Cars/D'Agostino first took cars to Canada for the Pro F2000 series, the CASA advised the SE-3s did not compling as they had no easy access to place a sling around the roll bar to remove a damaged car - they wanted the mechanics to cut the body right then and there - that weekend cooler heads prevailed and each car was fitted with a seatbelt type loop to "feed" around the bar - the "loop" was tie wrap'ed to the chassis in the left side below the sway bar adjuster, or so I recall - modified bodywork followed.

EJ

[problemchild]

Actually, the CASC ran Euro F2000 rules which had a maximum bodywork height that the developing US rules did not. After breifly playing the "its not bodywork .... its a carb scoop" game, the bodywork got cut down.

[TommyT]

Hey Russ, very nice!

How do you like the car now that you´ve driven it? Any new pics? I guess if I decided to convert my DB-3 I need to read your book... What engine cover did you end up using? Guess my DB-3 isn´t stock either, it looks just like your ¨before¨ picture.

[RussMcB]

Thanks, Tommy. Yes, I'm pretty happy with this car. I've only driven it twice (1/2 test day and then VIR Pro F1600). I'm liking how the car feels (and I'm sure I'm no where near the potential).

I probably would have enjoyed it as an FC Pinto, but really like the Honda & no wings. Definitely no regrets about the conversion. The conversion was pretty straightforward, using 99% of the DB-1 kit from HPD.

You can see a few pictures here:
http://store.fandsenterprises.com/in...ewImage=107865
https://picasaweb.google.com/1067909...23388763065938

and a video here:
http://vimeo.com/22269904

[Bob Coury]

Russ-where did you find that catch tank and mtg. bracket?

Thanks
Bob

[RussMcB]

Russ-where did you find that catch tank and mtg. bracket?

Thanks
Bob

It's a plastic bottle (upside down) in a home made bracket. I think the bottle came from McMaster Carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#general-pur...ottles/=cd7pp2.

I used aluminum sheet after doing a pattern in posterboard. There are a couple of aluminum angles (Home Depot) riveted on the back side that attach to Hewland studs. Probably cost me about $15, but 2-3 nights of labor (I'm embarrassed to say). I bought some 8mm (1.25?) threaded rod so I could extend two of the bearing case studs.

I have a similar pint sized bottle in the engine bay for coolant recovery.

[LenFC11]

russ

funny.. i made a similar bracket for mounting my fire bottle on top of battery. took me a full day those details take longer then assembling the car

[Buc01]

Sorry don't have a picture on this computer, but I made a catch tank from an aluminum Bud Light bottle. Very light weight, very aerodynamic, and it gets much attention! Not sure if it meets the ad nauseum rules and regulations of the SCCA, but since I don't run SCCA it works for me!. Some aluminum angle and zip ties. Easy stuff.

Regards,

Aaron

PS: Corner workers tell me it is the most "kick ass" catch bottle they ever saw!

[Bob Coury]

Thanks Russ. It looks great!