some restoration questions

[pitts12driver]

Well - I finally had enough time to tear my car down to begin the restoration. I have to say, after all these years of working on airplanes, a tiny race car seems really simple! We had it broken down in 2 hours!

I'm sure I'll have a bunch of questions, but for the moment, I've got a couple of really basic ones.

1. My car has no clutch. I've had Hasselgren build me a fresh carbureted Toyota motor. What clutch do I need, and where is the best place to buy it?

2. What is the best source for the wheel bearings in the uprights? Sizes/part #?

3. I need new brakes. Rotors are warped and rusty. Calipers need to be rebuilt. I have no idea what they were, or what the replacement parts should be.

4. My car (a 1988) had the original Fox shocks. They look pretty rough, and I've sent them off to the shock shop for a professional assessment. The fronts are missing the remote reservoirs, which I'm gathering are hard to find. (I'm not exactly sure where they'd mount either). Does anyone have the reservoirs? If not, what is the best replacement shock currently available? Penske? How do I spec spring rates etc.?

5. Do people have favorite brake reservoirs? Mine are old and deteriorated.

That's it for the moment. I'm sure there will be many more naive questions shortly.

thanks very much

Adam

[Rick Kirchner]

what kind of car?

Search this site for the parts you need or advertise in the "Wanted" sections. Another good place for finding old atlantic parts is www.race-cars.com. Lots of people post there that are not on here.

Master cylinders are usually replaced with like parts. Girlings and APs are pretty interchangeable, as are Tiltons. Other stuff is usually junk quality.

Penske bought Fox. If the shafts are pitted they probably aren't worth saving, because they must be either replaced or polished down and re-plated ($$$). Might bebetter to have the shock guy determine the valving and copy it in a set of penskes.

Clutch will be either a 5.5 or a 7.25, AP or Tilton, check the bolt pattern on your flywheel, and call hasslegren for his suggestion.

Rotors - Campbell makes new rotors to your spec, as does Truechoice and Pegasus.

Lots of people on this site experienced with just about every type of car, so keep asking, and post pictures as you go.

[pitts12driver]

Sorry - I suppose it would have helped if I'd said it was a DB-4...

[Hardingfv32]

I do not think Penske owns Fox. Ken Anderson, a Fox designer, went to Penske to start the Penske shock business after a failed attempt to buy Fox in the '80s. Has something changed in the last decade?

Brian

[Rick Ross]

1. Get a Tilton OT-III 5.5" two plate clutch. Metallic discs....you do not need carbon. Also inspect the release bearing and rebuild your slave cylinder. Do not assume that the slave to clutch spacing is correct. Be sure to reset you clurtch pedal stop.

2. Contact Doug Learned at Fast Forward about your uprights and bearings. He rebuilt my DB4 uprights and did a great job.

3. Calipers are AP CP3228's. Pistons are P/N 3228-103. Seals are P/N CP4900-164. Check with Comprent, K-Hill, and/or Jack Crone for the rotors. They are out there, you just have to track them down.

4. Replace the shocks with some decent used Penskes or Ohlins. Make sure they have been serviced and valved appropriately for a DB4. The springs are 2.25" ID, the length will vary with the individual shock design. Start out with 500-600 lbs on the front and 700-800 lbs on the rear. You may also want to try around 275 lbs pre-load on the front.

5. Any standard AP or Girling master cylinders will work. I think I used 0.75" on my car. Any compatible reservoirs will be fine. You do not need the large reservoirs....the narrow 3" or 5" tall ones fit well in the DB4 nose.

6. Don't forget to check the fuel cell. It is not easy to replace on a DB4.

[kea]

Calipers are probably AP. Seals and pistons available. I do this without spliting in two. Pistons size, OD, length and material, may have a nub on the backside. Most have the seal in the caliper, but there are a few calipers with the seal on the pistion. Please note before ordering.
Brake pads, a number of choices (I have mine).
Rotors, may once again, have come from AP also. Their replacements will be a bit expensive, so you might want to contact the other sources listed. I like the AP material better.
Floating rotors ran on little "hats". Inspect them for "edges" or excess wear.
I like AP or Girling (if the size is available) for master cylinders best, that's how I feel.
The Penske shocks first looked like something Monroe (the OEM muffler, shocks, etc. people) had tried. Wheel bearings will normally have a part number somewhere on the seals or possilble outside, or purchased with the OD, ID and width information.

[Rick Ross]

I agree with Keith, you may not need to split the calipers. The seals are in the calipers, not on the pistons. My DB4 had fixed rotors, they were not floating. Not sure if this was standard or not on the cars.

BTW, Keith is a great source for the master cylinders and reservoirs (and lots of other stuff). He can also fabricate a very nice DB4 throttle cable....something else which should be checked carefully on your car.

[pitts12driver]

thanks Rick. Can you tell me which spline pattern I'd need for the clutch disks? Also, the clutch comes in step and pot styles. Which is appropriate?

[kea]

Adam,
It's not so much as what may or may not be a correct clutch disk style, but what will not cause a problem. Some styles may interfere (a general statement) with flywheel bolts or the throw-out bearing when depressed, while others won't. So normally I'd say replace a clutch disk style with the same style.
But, with a vehicle having that kind of power, the more clutch spline engaged you can obtain, the better.

[Charles Warner]

It sounds as if the car has seen some serious neglect before you got it. Rebuild/replace everything.

What spline spec is your input shaft? That answers the question. As far as using nested clutch discs or not, the only time I've ever HAD to use them was on the BD series engines. I used standard discs on the Toyota motors.

One added possibility to consider. IF you are replacing the shocks and have to buy new springs, consider going to a 2" spring setup.

[Rick Ross]

The disc spline requirement is determined by the Staffs input shaft. I think that it is 7/8 x 20, but you may want to check with someplace like Taylor to be sure. I did not use the "stacked" discs in my car.

[kala]

Last year we replaced all the rotors and associated AP parts Greg Hazard was a great help in sorting this out for us. If he is still at Motorsport Spares he is a very good resource for all AP products.
Regards
Shelton

Greg Hazard [ghazard@motorsportsspares.com]

[Stan Clayton]

1. Get a Tilton OT-III 5.5" two plate clutch. Metallic discs....you do not need carbon. Also inspect the release bearing and rebuild your slave cylinder. Do not assume that the slave to clutch spacing is correct. Be sure to reset you clurtch pedal stop.

Different strokes and all that, but I've used both metallic and carbon 5.5" clutches, and would never willingly go back to a metallic one. Also, IMO the Toyota doesn't need a two plate clutch. That's just additional rotating inertia on an engine that needs all the help it can get. Stan

[chrisbillings]

Any such information would be appreciated. Ideally, wheel rate of the bars would be measured over the full range of adjustment and at the wheel taking into account any compliance.

Thanks!
Chris