Wheel bearing grease

[fv58]

I was just wondering what is a good wheel bearing grease to use.I have done some research and found lucas make a low friction grease but do not know if will provide enough protection.Lucas g3 is the product.Any info about what to use wpuld be great.Dave jr

[budawe]

The critical elements for our vees are heat and contamination. Most good quality disc brake grease will work. With the brake shoes wearing so quickly, the grease gets contaminated with material and requires cleaning and repacking more often. If you are still running the ball bearings, centrifical force will tend to push the grease out of the bearing and it will have to be regreased more often. I do not run the tapered late model bearings. If you're really worried about friction, take the spring out of the seal. The grease will get dirty more quickly but a bit of drag will go away.

[veefan]

This stuff is great....

[Hardingfv32]

1) Are our operating temps actually that high on average, not peak?

2) How is it we can use something as light a automatic transmission fluid in the trans axle and not have trouble with the rear wheel bearings?

3) The thickness of grease when at room temp has no bearing on it's lubricating properties.

Brian

[DanW]

The synthetic EP2 greases are a good alternative. They have a high dropping point (where the oil separates from the thickener) temperature and usually have a Timken OK load of 45 or more(the ability of the grease to provide lubrication under high point or line loads).

The drums transfer a lot of heat (disks of the FST) to the hubs. The cornering loads are much greater than on a road car, but they are of short duration. The compensation is the FV is less than half the weight of a VW bug, so the radial loads are much less.

[veefan]

Red Line CV-2 Grease

TYPICAL PROPERTIES
4-Ball Wear (ASTM D-4172B)0.464-
Ball Weld (ASTM D-2783)400 Kg
Load/Wear Index (ASTM D-2783)71.1


"Synthetic fluidity allows increases in bearing life up to 200%" ???

aka less rolling resistance.

"How is it we can use something as light a automatic transmission fluid in the trans axle and not have trouble with the rear wheel bearings?"

If we could use this instead of the current oil properties of our rear bearings... what would happen?

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82&pcid=17

[Hardingfv32]

You probably put less than a 1000 miles a season on your FV. Is the longevity of the bearings more important than bearing drag?

Brian

[budawe]

Brian, I do not recommend ATF for my customer trannies. It's a hydraulic fluid not a lubricant and will increase wear.

[Hardingfv32]

Yes, there are better oils to use in the transaxle, but everyone knows how thin automatic transmission oil is. Regardless, it is not a disaster to use it in the transaxle. So, if the rear axle bearings are happy with such thin oil why do the FV front wheel bearings require the same grease we use on our tow vehicles? With only a 1000 mi. per season for the average competitor is wear really an issue. This is a race car. We are trying to make it faster are we not?

[kea]

I use the RedLine CV-2 for all my wheel bearings (CV joints too), from race cars to trailers. It's worked fine for me for many years and not just because I sell it.

[stephen wilson]

The transaxle is designed to run in an oil bath, front axles are not, so there's nothing to keep a thin oil in the bearing where it's needed, and the seals will let it leak out.

[Hardingfv32]

1) Are you sure that the grease in front wheel bearings doesn't change to a liquid when under pressure between the rolling elements and then back to a thick grease.

2) Not saying to use oil in the front hubs. What I am suggesting is that there are greases available with lower drag properties than what has been recommended that can be used with no noticeable wear during the normal life span of a FV.

Brian

[Tiago Santos]

Like what?

[DanW]

1) Are you sure that the grease in front wheel bearings doesn't change to a liquid when under pressure between the rolling elements and then back to a thick grease.
Yes it does. The pressure from the ball or roller on the race squeezes the oil out of the thickener to lubricate the bearing. There is a term for this that I can't recall. The film is just a few molecules thick at the contact area.

2) Not saying to use oil in the front hubs. What I am suggesting is that there are greases available with lower drag properties than what has been recommended that can be used with no noticeable wear during the normal life span of a FV.

Yes, there are lighter grades, EP1 or EP0 that can be used. Depending on the thickener, the grease may centrifuge itself out of the bearing faster. YMMV

Brian

Regards,
Dan

[Hardingfv32]

Is the NLGI Grade the main factor/cause of lubrication drag when using a grease?

Brian

[DanW]

Brian,

The higher the NLGI number, the thicker it is. The number refers to "pumpability" for forcing the grease through a tube or fitting into a bearing.

I think overgreasing produces the most drag. The bearing moves through the grease and eventually pushes most of it out of the way. How much drag can be reduced with a different grease? I don't know.

Most sealed bearings come packed with polyurea grease. There are both EP and non EP types, with grades from 0 to 2. They run pretty cool in sealed bearings, which means there is not much drag. They are usually available in industrial supply houses and jobbers.

Mobil, Shell, Chevron, and most specialty houses sell polyurea based greases. If you use polyurea grease, you must clean all of the old lithium grease out of the bearing housing and bearings. Most polyurea greases are not compatible with other types of grease.

Some reasonably unbiased info on grease and lubricants:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=87&Itemid=63

Regards,
Dan

[sracing]

Brian, I do not recommend ATF for my customer trannies. It's a hydraulic fluid not a lubricant and will increase wear.

It's a lubricate with some specific applications. BTW, many if not most modern manual transmissions have been using it since the late 90's. Tremec's etc. It lubricates fine. Even some 4 wheel drive transfer cases use it. So it has great shear properites also. I use a light weight RL gear oil in our transaxles. But I have no idea why a D-4 GL-3 wouldn't work fine or better. I have heard things like it affects brass, etc.. I find this a bit hard to accept. But there may be some reason not to use it that I am unaware of.

[budawe]

At one time most ATF fluids contained abrasives to reduce glazing of the clutches. This same abrasive cut down synchros quite quickly. Since I am not privy to all the ingredients in modern ATF, I simply do not recommend it to my tranny customers. I will not speculate about the ATF in modern manual trannies except to say it will reduce cold weather issues and friction. Much like the recommendation to run lower viscosities in modern engines, it may have more to do with increasing gas mileage than it does with extending the life of the components. Factory specified special synthetics and additives are used extensively in high pressure applications like towing and larger pickups and many have learned the hard way not to depart from the factory spec. My 2005 F250 uses a special ATF that I have to buy from the stealer, oops I mean dealer.

Red line makes an ultra thin tranny oil and most oils designed for motorcycles will provide excellent results for our trannies. Motorcycle oils can be found in very light, 5/50 applications. I do not recommend shock proof oils for Vee trannies since it will increase drag in our application.

[Hardingfv32]

"I do not recommend shock proof oils for Vee trannies since it will increase drag in our application."

I am going to assume you do not have drag data from a real transmission dyno. That being the case what part of Redlines oil specification leads you to think the SuperLight Shockproof would not have the lowest drag numbers of ANY gear oil? It is 50% thinner than their AFT oil. I'm not sure that anyone makes a lower viscosity gear oil. I have been trying to formulate something thinner, but it is very hard to fine oil with this low a viscosity.

Redline provides all the information necessary evaluate the issue.

Brian

[budawe]

It's not a viscosity issue. Shockproof oils contain little balls of material to provide the absorption of shock. The problem with this additive is that it builds up in the synchros and needle bearing cages and looks like a thick paste. It requires a fair amount of scraping to remove and clearly increases drag. Most Hewland dog ring type trannies don't have these knooks and crannies to accumulate the spheres.

I have tested this manually. When you tear down trannies that have used Shockproof and compare before and after washing the part in question, it's pretty easy to feel the difference.