Hi Guys,
I'm new here and new to racing. A customer of our is selling a 1982 Van Diemen that last raced 2 years ago., wants,$9500 w/open trailer. It last ran about 9 months ago. It turns over and we're going to start it in a week or so. He says heads need freshened up but not much else. Looks nice and is pretty original. So I would appreciate any advice.
Do I want a car that old?
Can bodywork be updated?
I'm 6'2" is that too tall?
Is there an active race crowd in Phoenix?
Is there Club in Phoenix?
Is there anyone in Phoenix that could evaluate the car for me?
I didn't know there were any '82 VD FC's in this country....Look up Ray Stephens on this site- he lives in AZ and knows about these cars.
'82 seems a bit old- there are any number of early to mid '90's era VD's for sale which are very good cars to drive while not too expensive... and you'll most likely fit.
I think, more importantly- what are your goals? What experience do you have now? What infrastructure do you have- trailer, tools, etc. Its a lot more than just buying a car (however, we all started somewhere).
__________________
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In memory of Joe Stimola
Chris Harrison is in Phoenix and has a prep shop. I would trust his judgment with just about anything. He has always been great to us. His number is (623) 465 - 0228
SCCA does have a region in Phoenix. Used to be a big crowd but I think the numbers are dying out now but it has been years since I have been there so hard for me to know current participation numbers.
__________________ www.andybrumbaugh.com <---Driver Development
When New Tires Aren't Enough
1. I own an auto repair shop in N. Scottsdale but still Captain for American Airlines
2. Old Navy Fighter Pilot who likes to compete!
3. Can travel w/car and support
4. Very mechanically inclined
5. Having fun is part of this, but winning adds to the fun!!
6. ZERO racing experience but given my background (even though I am an Old Dog) I may be trainable!
I'm sure you will fit in well with the road race crowd, but the 82 Van Dieman was a better (in it's day) Formula Ford than a FC.
The front radiator really handicaps it aerodynamically, the narrow suspension will be quite limited on modern FC tires, and you can probably get something a little more current (maybe less trailer) for not much more $$. Mechanically I think you will find this type of car quite simple, maybe a few unusual things to learn about an English race car, but all in all, I don't think it will be a big deal. Learning the difference between a handling issue and an aero one is the trick.
Hopefully, some others who live in the SW, will come up and make contact.
__________________
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc. www.racing-stuff.com
248-585-9139
I'm in the airline biz too, but I'm just a lowly MD-11 no sched cargo type who probably makes a fraction of what an AA captain makes.
That being said, I'd pony up 20g's, and buy a decent FC from somone with a good reputation. You'd be more competitive a whole lot sooner, and it would be a lot safer.
I've got four kids under my roof, an ex wife and have three times that invested in my "stuff". If I can do it, so can you.
Senna raced the factory F2000(FC) VanDieman RF82 in 1982 and he won with it. I think that both the F2000 version RF82 and RF 83 were side radiator cars with wedge type noses and they also had mini-ground effect tunnels that looked cool but probably didn't work, everyone took them off the car eventually when the radiators leaked. I agree about the newer car at 20g, much cheaper in the long run.
Welcome. You said that you were competitive and that winning adds to the fun. That said, there are some better car options out there for you. Buy a newer FC, or better yet, a nice clean FF. Good luck.
Hi Guys,
I'm new here and new to racing. A customer of our is selling a 1982 Van Diemen that last raced 2 years ago., wants,$9500 w/open trailer. It last ran about 9 months ago. It turns over and we're going to start it in a week or so. He says heads need freshened up but not much else. Looks nice and is pretty original. So I would appreciate any advice.
Do I want a car that old?
Can bodywork be updated?
I'm 6'2" is that too tall?
Is there an active race crowd in Phoenix?
Is there Club in Phoenix?
Is there anyone in Phoenix that could evaluate the car for me?
And many, many more questions....
Thanks,
Jim Moore
Serious National racing or just out to have fun?? There is a group of us that run in the ProAutoSports series with FC's in the Phoenix area... mostly Firebird, more for fun but we do get serious. Due to the economy the turnout has been a bit low lately but we run with FF's & FM (and other cars) so the race groups are good size - much larger then SCCA.
Send me a message or give me a call @ 602/561-7348, I know of at least on car that should still be for sale in the area and can put you in contact with a few race prep shops in the area that might know of more and could check any car you migh be looking to buy.
Check the ProAutoSports section here for more info, links to a few videos, I've also posted some pictures here in the gallery, come out to Firebird Thanksgiving weekend and see the groups is like. I know of two FC's that wont be running that weekend, but we should be running at the Dec. event.
I'm about 6'3" 180# (was 200), you are more then welcome to come over and see how my Reynard fit's you, I know of a Swift & a early 90's Van Diemen in the ares you could do a trial fit in also (maybe a early 80's Reynard too).
Virgil,
First. If the car is for sale, go sit in it. And do the "broomstick test". If you don't fit, walk.
OBTW, the price is a bit rich for what the car is. Especially considering what you will spend to get it ready for the track. And, don't think that you can pour a few Grand into it with a bunch of sweat equity, and get any more than about $8K out of it.
e.g. If you have an auto repair shop, doing the valve job on the head is fairly routine.
While we are talking about "just needs a valve job." ... That rang a few alarm bells at this end. If it is really something like a broken piston, or worse, then the repair bill can climb quickly to $3K and beyond.
It could make a neat little beginner's track day car. Competitive? Probably not. Faster and funner than driving around in a door-slammer, yes.
Yes, Senna drove one... in '82. Not racing against iron that is 10, 20, almost 30 years more modern.
A few very competitive track ready CFC cars have sold in the last few days for only a few grand more than that car. We just don't want to see you get burned before you get started.
All that said, if you purchase it, you'll get all the needed advice and help right here on Apexspeed.
There are a ton of great threads in the "Getting Started" archives that will prevent you from doing a high dive into the shallow end. Well worth the read time.
Wouldn't go older than a 1987 Reynard, 1990 Van Diemen, or 1988 EuroSwift. Shop hard enough and you can find one for the same money you would spend on the 1982 car.
Bottom line is newer cars are easier to go faster in. When I switched from my 85/89 Swift DB3 to my 99 Mygale my lap times dropped 3-5 seconds at ever tack I run. The Mygale is 7-8 seconds a lap faster than my pals 83 VD F2000 and we share an enduro car in which we run similar times. No doubt he would be just as fast a I am in a modern car. A wise man said the initiation fees (cost of car) into this club maybe high or low but the annual dues (running costs) are the same. I have tried it both ways and am much happier with the Mygale (it is sweet).
Frog is on the money..so to speak..thats a lot of bucks for a 82..I got my 88 VD with spares and 3 sets of wheels for $7500 and shipped it to OZ...keep looking..My 2 cs...
R
Find a car that is race ready and has been raced recently with good times. Do not start with a fixer-upper. You will spend more time getting the the car back in shape and too little time driving and no time learning how to drive.
You need to start out with confidence in the car. That is very important for a beginning driver who has other things to worry about. A bad car will make racing not much fun.
Find a car that is race ready and has been raced recently with good times. Do not start with a fixer-upper. You will spend more time getting the the car back in shape and too little time driving and no time learning how to drive.
You need to start out with confidence in the car. That is very important for a beginning driver who has other things to worry about. A bad car will make racing not much fun.
Then there is the other half of the coin.... if you enjoy working on the car and have the skills it can be fun & satisfying to go through it, fixing, tweaking as needed.
My car was "race ready" when I bought it.... but I would have not taken it out on the track as is !
I imported a Rf82 F2000 to Canada in spring of 84. Sold it to MI in 85. Lost track of it years ago. There has been a SV RF82 floating around but I have not seen another F2000 over here.
Universal is a company down the road from the old VD factory near Snetterton and has had all the older VD bits available (including bodywork)for years.
The car is like a Model T compared to modern cars. I would only consider it for parades and displays .... unless it fits into some vintage/historic classification.
My car came from Bob Salisbury Racing (or similiar) and was not used by Senna or Gugelmin. The original Nelson engine came from Rushen Green and may have been used as a test engine by Senna but .... certainly neither car nore engine had any historical status.
__________________ Greg Rice Rice Race Prep
Last edited by problemchild; November 18th, 2010 at 7:34 PM.
Thanks to all for the good advice! I am now loking for a well sorted out Reynard from the mid 90's. There was mention of a '97 being particulary good unless I misunderstood. There is a Texas car I may see next week.
I also flew the MD-11 at American mostle to Buenos Aires from Miami. I thought it was a nice jet to fly....after we spent two years sorting out the bugs!
So the hunt continues! I am going to put a couple guys in touch with Ron on the '82 VD. He would really like to sell it. It felt tight to me but hard to judge accurately as it is set up for him and I am MUCH taller. It seemed tight where my legs went past the instrument panel as well.
Thanks to all for the good advice! I am now loking for a well sorted out Reynard from the mid 90's. There was mention of a '97 being particulary good unless Virgil
That is VERY interesting as, Reynard built their last FC's in 1992 I believe.
Keep shopping. We just sold TWO complete 89 and 90 Reynards for $10,500. One pretty much track ready the other torn down in to major sub assembly's for a ground up rebuild.
The Reynards are a 'perfect' (if there is such a thing) car for a new driver in FC. Very easy to set up, very easy to drive and very forgiving.
Our driver was about 6' 1.5". It was 'tight' but worked fine.
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CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
Last edited by rickb99; November 21st, 2010 at 7:20 PM.
6. ZERO racing experience but given my background (even though I am an Old Dog) I may be trainable!
Hope this helps direct the advice!!
Virgil
Just my two cents worth, but if you are literally just starting out, I feel you'll learn more about car behavior and control more quickly in a FFord, rather than confusing the issue early on with wings and downforce....
I will second the previous post, start in FF. Starting in a winged car will definitely put you at a disadvantage to the drivers who have a lot of FF time before they raced FC.
Even a FV will better prepare you to run a FC competitively than starting in FC.
I started flying when I was over 60 in PA28s and C172s but it wasn't until I qualified in a J3 that I feel that I had a real feel for flying. You learn a lot more driving 100% at 1.7 to 2 gs than driving at 80% and going 2.3 Gs or more.
I'll third the FF suggestion. I started with an FC with only driver school and sports car experience and it was not fun. Most of what I have learned in the FC I could have learned faster and safer, with less crash repair, in a FF.
It is a bit less expensive to get a well sorted car and believe me you will likely go faster for the first year in the FF that you will in the FC!
Buying a FC need advice
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