Ready to race oil temp

[Herman Pahls]

Do F-1000's have cooling fans on the radiator?
My impression is few if any do.
If no cooling fan on the radiator how does one get the oil to race temp without overheating the water?
Even the pace car lap does not seem adequte to get oil temp ready to race.
What oil temperature do owners of GSXR 1000's in F-1000 like to see before pushing redline?
I hope to race my Phoenix F-1000 for the 1st time this weekend.
Thanks Herman

[Nicholas Belling]

I like to have my motor cycled up to 190 oil temp before race ready..

[Wren]

I've never seen one with a cooling fan. Belling's idea should work.

As things get colder up there, be aware that a GSXR will make crazy oil pressure at really low temperatures. It can make upwards of 100 psi and blow out an oil filter or another seal, which will be a bigger problem if you have a wet sump system and the whole oil system is at that pressure.

[stephen wilson]

Electric oil heater, before going to grid?

[Herman Pahls]

How does one heat the oil in a wet sump versus a heater in the drysump tank?
Thanks for the replys. Herman

[Nicholas Belling]

long thin vertical metal heat stick installed in the oil cooler inline side is what I have seen

[JakeL]

I just warm the car up until the water hits about 200*, then shut it off. oil tends to equalize up to around 150 or so. Start it up again on grid at the 2-5 minute sign, watch it on the outlap, and by the time you reach the green - bingo!

-Jake

[lancer360]

Same hear. A couple of warm up cycles in paddock usually brings the oil up in temp enough that by the outlap its warm enough not to worry about. I do run a wet sump so even after shutting the engine off, I'm still getting some heat transfer from the block into the oil.

[Herman Pahls]

Thanks for the oil temp. replys.
Now that I have the GXSR 1000 powered FB on track I have found that getting the oil up to race temp. is easy. Too easy!!
My previous experience was with the Hayabusa powered car that my son drives in the same group.
During my 1st race with the GSXR 1000 the oil before the cooler got to 280 degrees and I had to back off.
It hurts to have my son in his first novice race leave me behind
The Busa car with same cooler had 160 degree oil and we need to block half of it off to get higher temp.
Please advise what make and model cooler seems to keep your F-1000's in the 220 degree before the cooler range.
Thanks Herman

[Nicholas Belling]

its all about having efficient airflow going through your oil cooler. are they the same cars. one must be a different car aerodynamically.

[ghickman]

During my 1st race with the GSXR 1000 the oil before the cooler got to 280 degrees and I had to back off.
It hurts to have my son in his first novice race leave me behind
Please advise what make and model cooler seems to keep your F-1000's in the 220 degree before the cooler range.
Thanks Herman

Herman
Are you sampling your oil temps before the cooler? In my opinion you really should be checking it after the cooler to see how efficient the cooler really is.

As I understand it you have the original Phoenix 07 car. As I recall Dustin never had any issues with high oil temps but I could be wrong.

That car has very large side pods with equally large openings. Air flow really shouldn't be a factor there.

In my opinion anything less than 200 sq. in. oil cooler is too small. You should contact Dustin and relay your concerns to him. He knows that car better than any of us.

[Richard Dziak]

Herman:

I have the same car, the same year, the same oil cooler. I always start the car 10 minutes before entering the grid. I get the temps up to 190 on the AIM Dash and then shut it down. Once I get into the car and off to the grid the temps are hot, engine is hot and ready to race. Once you leave the grid your ready to race, no warmup needed, because the temps are already where you want them to be. I was told many years ago to do this, and never to enter the grid and race on a cold engine, it is very tough on the interior bearings. This came from a racing engine builder in Colorado.

I have never had any problems with overheating in the Phoenix F1K-07 and you should not either. The sidepods are very large on our cars, much larger than the new F1K-10 that you see in the Pete Frost photo. I have posted a photo of our car compared to Pete's here on ApexSpeed. I think our oil coolers are very efficient. Not to say the F1K-10 is not. Dustin has worked very hard to make sure the engines in his Phoenix race machines act efficiently.

I assume you ran all oil and cooling lines the same as showen in the photos I sent to you.

How about posting a few photos of the rebuild. I am anxious to see what you did with the car and the finished product.

Good luck this weekend in the race environment. I will out at the track here locally running my Phoenix F1000 also, can't wait to get into it.

[Wren]

Are you sure that all of the air going in the sidepod is passing through the oil cooler?

[Richard Dziak]

Wren:

Specifically on the Phoenix F1K-07 the oil cooler and radiator is very large and the air induction goes thru 100%. There may be some air leaks but would bet that 98%+ air induction goes thru the cooler and radiator. If there are minor air gaps they can easily be sealed. A soft rubber type gasket surrounds the coolers to the body work.

The radiator sits in the left sidepod, on an angle of about 30-40 degrees, while the right sidepod holds the oil cooler. The distance of the oil lines from cooler to engine is less than 4 feet.

Hope this info helps.

[Herman Pahls]

Thanks again for your responces to my oil cooling issues.
I want to mention that Dustin Wright has been over the top in his advice in getting the prototype Phoenix back together and on track.
The oil cooler that came with the chassis is a Setrab that measures 7 1/2 by 11 by 2 inches thick or approx. 83 sq. inches.
I tried another cooler that was 110 sq. inches which lowered the temp. from 280 to 255 degrees before the cooler on approx. 70 degree ambient days.
Gary Hickman suggested that the oil cooler be approx. 200 sq. inches. and that I measure the temp after the cooler.
It appears that I need a bigger cooler since 110 sq. inches is only 55 percent of Gary's suggested 200 sq. inches.
This makes sense since the DSR's seem to run oil coolers almost as big as their radiators.
Wren
When I made sure that all the air was going thru the oil cooler the oil temps went up.
Possibly because I was getting more comfortable with the car and driving harder.
Nicklous
It was explained to me that the GSXR 1000's heat the oil more than the Hayabusa's due to the way the 1000's oil cools the pistons.
I need a bigger oil cooler so please advise the size and source of coolers you have been successful with keeping the oil in the 220 degree range on hot days in your FB wet sump cars.
I will appreciate your time and advice.
Thanks again. Herman

[Wren]

255 before the cooler is good.

George Dean has told me that the engine will make the best power with the oil at 240* going into the engine.

200 sq. in. sounds like a lot, but 83 sq. in. does not sound like much.

You should definitely have the rest of the sidepod blanked off around the oil cooler unless you are pulling air out of the sidepod for something else.

[RussMcB]

I recommend measuring oil temp at two locations - where it's hottest and coolest. That way you can tell how efficient your cooling system is. If you only know one of those numbers you're missing a big piece of the puzzle.

My car had the cooler located between the scavenge pump and oil tank, so my two oil temp sensors were at the scavenge pump exit (before the cooler) and in the oil tank (to show the oil's temp going into the engine).

[ghickman]

Herman
Get Dustin to make you up one of his oil coolers he makes from trans. coolers. They're thin, light weight and easy to package....best of all they're inexpensive. I have one and it's been a workhorse for over a year now. He can configure it so that the ends face the ideal direction and he can also install a threaded bung for a temp. sending unit. Nice neat packaging.

Something else to consider that in my opinion gets over looked in these cars is having some sort of fresh air vented into the engine compartment.....and if you can dump the fresh air close to in front of the headers to flush the super heated air out that helps even more.

High underhood temps are the death knell to these cars engines.

[Richard Dziak]

Herman:

I agree with Gary Hickman to call Dustin over at Phoenix. I see no reason to make any modifications to your car (air induction). As you know I have the same year Phoenix. Dustin built the car and he knows best how to handle your problem. I have had NO reported cooling problems on my F1K-07 and the car has the original oil cooler that was installed by Phoenix.

Are you 100% sure that you are collecting proper and accurate data from your on board telemetry?

Dustin is fully equipped to either make a new cooler or supply you with one. Your best bet is to deal with the company that build the car.