F1000 car cost

[Slider996]

I was wondering who makes the least expensive (but still competitive) F1000 car out there. I would be looking for something new or fairly new and turnkey but without all the bells and whistles. How much would I need to spend?

[Wren]

If you want a cheap, competitive car then buy one of the Novak cars. There is no reason at all you can't win the runoffs in a converted VD and Jay has done it very, very well. I think Coop's old car is still available from McLaughlin Motorsports.

[Slider996]

Do they have anything new and purpose built for F1000 or will they all be conversion kit cars? How much would something like that run?

I am thinking more along the lines of something new, turnkey, and purpose built for F1000.

[Purple Frog]

Think, starting around $65K US dollars.

[Slider996]

OK for $65,000. what do you get and from who?

[mousecatcher]

new, cheap, fast? I don't think those words go together!

[Keith Roberts]

The F1K-10 is $49,900. Complete with a Goerge Dean 07-08 GSXR motor and Aim dash.

Keith

[VehDyn]

You can get used purpose built F1000s for in the 30's. I have seen some Stohrs go for that with little use.

[Wren]

Do they have anything new and purpose built for F1000 or will they all be conversion kit cars? How much would something like that run?

I am thinking more along the lines of something new, turnkey, and purpose built for F1000.

They are conversion cars, but they are built off of Van Diemen cars and Jay is not a fly by night business. He has been building runoffs winning cars since before F1000 was around.

I wouldn't get too hung up on whether or not something is "purpose built" for FB or not. FC based cars are absolutely competitive with anything purpose built.

You will find your two biggest differences are that FB cars are allowed 150cm wide bodywork (which is actually wider than FA) and that FB cars are allowed aluminum brakes.

The narrow FC bodywork may be an advantage, but either way a phone call and a check to Mike Devins will fix any composites problem you have and it will be good, quick, and cheap.

The brake thing is more of an issue, but I understand that there are now uprights available for VD that will fit the new PFC brakes, which are excellent brakes.

I believe that some of the Novak conversion cars have sold for under $20k.

[Mike B]

In the San Diego area, I would pop by the shop of Gary Hickman (Edge Engineering). He has built a one-off F1000 but everything was built in-house and I think you could twist his arm to make a second one. Don't know what the cost would be, though. At the very least, he'll be a wealth of advice for you.
The Phoenix is a great car at a great price and a short drive for you to get fitted into one. (http://www.phoenixracecars.com/)
Don't forget about Philly Motorsports car (http://phillymotorsports.com/f1000-info.html). Don't recall the price but a quick call to Sal would solve that.

I still believe the Novak conversion is one of the best cars out there.

[Brandon Dixon]

You could build a new Citation F1000 car for less than the costs above. You are going to have to do a fair bit of work yourself, but the "pile of parts" model is interesting to some people.

[Wren]

You could build a new Citation F1000 car for less than the costs above. You are going to have to do a fair bit of work yourself, but the "pile of parts" model is interesting to some people.

For a brand new car that is definitely the cheapest way, even with the high dollar shocks, mega CDS data, crazy AL brakes, and computer shifting.

[Rick Ross]

Slider,

Have you ever driven a race car? Do you have a competition license? Do you have any racing experience? If not, it does not matter what car you buy. You will spend that next several years simply acquiring experience and learning how to drive the car. Any FB will be more car than you need, and you may be better off first spending a season or two in a slower class of car.

On the other hand, perhaps you are an experienced racer. If so, then what are your goals? If you want to beat guys like Dixon, Coello, etc., you better bring your A game. These guys are very good, and their cars are top-notch. To compete at this level will require top-notch equipment, and the ability to use it. At this point it appears that the Citation, Phoenix, Firman, Stohr, and Novak cars are all quite capable of winning.

[Slider996]

Slider,

Have you ever driven a race car? Do you have a competition license? Do you have any racing experience? If not, it does not matter what car you buy. You will spend that next several years simply acquiring experience and learning how to drive the car. Any FB will be more car than you need, and you may be better off first spending a season or two in a slower class of car.

On the other hand, perhaps you are an experienced racer. If so, then what are your goals? If you want to beat guys like Dixon, Coello, etc., you better bring your A game. These guys are very good, and their cars are top-notch. To compete at this level will require top-notch equipment, and the ability to use it. At this point it appears that the Citation, Phoenix, Firman, Stohr, and Novak cars are all quite capable of winning.

I know I have some learnin to do but I tend to pick things up pretty quick. What constitutes top notch equipment within FB rules? And how much do you have to spend to have a top notch car?

[Purple Frog]

I'm sticking to my guns on $65K for your "top notch" car ready to race, with shocks, data, cameras, paint, decals... delivered in your garage.

Because there won't be spares at the track to buy... better have about $5K invested in some spares. A-arms, front wings, nose, wheels, etc. Always good to have at least one spare of those custom radiators that are inside the sidepods. Spare chains and multiple sprockets. Oops.. $5K may not be enough.

You can't run "top notch" with out a scale platform at the track. ~$3k.

To get there you need a truck and trailer to haul spares, car, and platform. $$$

To run with the big boys, unless you are using your brother-in-law, you'll need to be paying an engineer ~$400 a day to do prep and setups.

These are F1000 cars. You need a spare motor in the trailer. $

Don't forget the tools. Jacks. Ramps. Paddock wheels. Shock tools and a Nitrogen bottle to adjust the "top notch" shocks.

Figure ~$800 a set for tires. At least two sets a weekend to run "top notch." If it rains, add another $800 worth of rain tires onto those spare wheels in your trailer.

A few grand for drivers suit, helmet, Squarehead design helmet paintjob, shoes, HANS, gloves...

You have to do the test day, to set the car up with your engineeer. So that entry fee.

Then the race entry. Motels, Food, transportation.

It's all rather inexpensive compared to F1. You can even run inexpensive pump gas.

[Northwind]

"I know I have some learnin to do but I tend to pick things up pretty quick. What constitutes top notch equipment within FB rules? "


Top notch equipment within FB rules could come in many forms. The rules allow quite a bit of freedom for things like aero packaging. The class is still young and nobody has it truly dialed in yet. So far all the cars you have been refered to are top notch. I would suggest you find one that fits your budget and give it a go. The difference between conversions and purpose built cars for the class has not shown a significant difference. I think it will be a few years before the true potential of the F 1000 rules comes to light. As far as being quick to pick things up, I hope you are. I have had a good many years experience driving some fast classes of cars and these F 1000 cars still are a major adjustment to drive. If you don't pick things up quickly you are going to need alot of clean underwear!

Good luck on your search, you will not be dissappointed with performance no matter what you get.

[Slider996]

I'm sticking to my guns on $65K for your "top notch" car ready to race, with shocks, data, cameras, paint, decals... delivered in your garage.

Because there won't be spares at the track to buy... better have about $5K invested in some spares. A-arms, front wings, nose, wheels, etc. Always good to have at least one spare of those custom radiators that are inside the sidepods. Spare chains and multiple sprockets. Oops.. $5K may not be enough.

You can't run "top notch" with out a scale platform at the track. ~$3k.

To get there you need a truck and trailer to haul spares, car, and platform. $$$

To run with the big boys, unless you are using your brother-in-law, you'll need to be paying an engineer ~$400 a day to do prep and setups.

These are F1000 cars. You need a spare motor in the trailer. $

Don't forget the tools. Jacks. Ramps. Paddock wheels. Shock tools and a Nitrogen bottle to adjust the "top notch" shocks.

Figure ~$800 a set for tires. At least two sets a weekend to run "top notch." If it rains, add another $800 worth of rain tires onto those spare wheels in your trailer.

A few grand for drivers suit, helmet, Squarehead design helmet paintjob, shoes, HANS, gloves...

You have to do the test day, to set the car up with your engineeer. So that entry fee.

Then the race entry. Motels, Food, transportation.

It's all rather inexpensive compared to F1. You can even run inexpensive pump gas.

Purple Frog,

That is quite a shopping list you put together! It's a great insight into the cost of this sport and a real eye opener. That's the kind of information I am looking for from this thread. Actually it is above and beyond. Thanks.

[provamo]

http://miniformulaindy.com/indysite/main.htm

[Slider996]

Has anyone put together a list of the prices of turnkey cars from the different manufacturers? I have some prices but I don't have any feel for quality comparison and i'm not sure what you get for the average price quoted. Maybe people can fill in what they know about price and put their opinion of quality or competitiveness in too? This is what I had in mind from this thread. Thanks for all your inputs so far!

1. Citation

2. Phoenix
Roller - $39,995
Turnkey - Ave ~$53,000

3. Firman

4. Stohr
Roller - $43,900
Turnkey - Avg ~$53,000

5. Novak

6. Speads
Roller - $29,900

7. Philadelphia
Roller - $35,000

8. Piper

9. Gloria

[Wren]

Has anyone put together a list of the prices of turnkey cars from the different manufacturers? I have some prices but I don't have any feel for quality comparison and i'm not sure what you get for the average price quoted. Maybe people can fill in what they know about price and put their opinion of quality or competitiveness in too?

It is too hard to do. Too many things change between cars. Some people send out their cars with two way penskes and no data or a $1,000 Aim system and some people want $20k+ in just shocks and data.

I will say that we have always thought that you could replicate Brandon's car, with the high dollar shocks and data (not anywhere near $20k in them though) for about $40k. You have to do a lot of the work yourself though. That was before the crazy paddle shift system was added, so you can add whatever that thing cost.

You will never get people here to comment on competitiveness, they are just too nice. You will have to look at all of the race results and look at crossover and try to develop some kind of sliding scale based on driver, track, and a bunch of other things. If you can get someone to the side at a race, you might get an actual opinion.

If I was going to go buy a turnkey FB car, I would go get a Piper. Don has been designing top cars for a long time and Fast Forward has been around a long time and I expect them to continue to be around for a long time. They know how to put together and prep a runoffs winning car. Other cars are just now running the times that the Piper car was running years ago. Don S. can also serve other, very important functions at the race track.

[rickjohnson356]

before committing to such a big expense, try to rent one from Phoenix for a test day at Willow Springs or Buttonwillow?

the advantage is that you will be able to check out all potentials: both of the car and your skill level.

Please don't take this comment as an insult, but others have expressed similar views based on our collective racing experience.

[starkejt]

I will say that we have always thought that you could replicate Brandon's car, with the high dollar shocks and data (not anywhere near $20k in them though) for about $40k. You have to do a lot of the work yourself though. That was before the crazy paddle shift system was added, so you can add whatever that thing cost.

I would add that the Citation that Schwietz drives is similar to Brandon's, and has been put together without much consideration to cost. It has whiz-bang Ohlins TTX40MkII shocks, CDS data with suspension, the same $$$$ Geartronics paddle shifter that Brandon has, the fancy Tilton 77-series rear-pivoting brake master cylinders with needle bearing balance bar, the new PFC brakes, etc etc. All I can say is that $40k would not touch what has gone into it, and that is with us doing the work ourselves. $25k would barely cover shocks, brakes, and the paddle shifter. I am guessing Wren's $40k figure is counting on finding a good deal on used shocks, data, etc.

[Firman West Cars]

As far as I'm aware the minimum turnkey prices from all the major manufacturers are roughly about the same. Somewhere in the low to mid 50's range. Configurations are different of course. It's no secret, we have quoted basic prices from around that range.

Of course adding options can increase that cost quite a bit.

What type of engine you select will make a big difference in price.

[Wright D]

The F1K-10 is $49,900. Complete with a Goerge Dean 07-08 GSXR motor and Aim dash.

Keith

This is a new, not used, turn key car with double adjustable Penske shocks...just to let everyone know.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Slider, unless you have extensive open wheel racing experience, learn in a less expensive class. If you want to learn how to race, start in FF. While there is no SoCal SCCA FF competition, there is close hard FFord racing in The Series, sometimes in VARA, and I think in NorCal SCCA. (no we don't run Honda engines) FFord should have a good group at Coronado in late Sept. When you can run with the front runners, you are going quickly. Learn how to race closely and optomize the mechanical grip of the cars, then go to wings. If you just want to drive around Track Day style that's something else.

[Slider996]

before committing to such a big expense, try to rent one from Phoenix for a test day at Willow Springs or Buttonwillow?

the advantage is that you will be able to check out all potentials: both of the car and your skill level.

Please don't take this comment as an insult, but others have expressed similar views based on our collective racing experience.

That's a good idea Rick. I'll find out about how much that costs too.

[Slider996]

before committing to such a big expense, try to rent one from Phoenix for a test day at Willow Springs or Buttonwillow?

the advantage is that you will be able to check out all potentials: both of the car and your skill level.

Please don't take this comment as an insult, but others have expressed similar views based on our collective racing experience.

This is a new, not used, turn key car with double adjustable Penske shocks...just to let everyone know.

Hi Dustin,
Since you are already here, could you PM me with details on renting one of your cars for a track day at willow springs some time?

[Rick Ross]

Good choice. FB is definitely not an enty level class. Renting a car from Dustin for a day would be a very smart move.

[Slider996]

Good choice. FB is definitely not an enty level class. Renting a car from Dustin for a day would be a very smart move.

Yes I know. I have a lot of track time on superbikes but I'm new to F1000. I will probably rent some cars and take a couple driving school classes and do a bunch of track days before I ever go racing with you guys!