F-1 Season predictions

[Ted Idlof]

All the corner workers were waving green. Guess that's for the photo op too.

Only F-1 could come up with that bit of logic.

[Marshall Mauney]

All the corner workers were waving green. Guess that's for the photo op too.

Only F-1 could come up with that bit of logic.

Not only were the corner workers waving green, the lights were green, as well. When in racing have you ever seen a green-flag situation that isn't racing? To top it off, it looked to me as if Alonso spun his tires and went wide, allowing Schumacher to get next to him. Heck, I'm not even sure if he could have checked up to avoid Alonso without getting hit from behind by his teammate.

Schumi's done some pretty wrong things in the past, but I think he's getting a bit of a raw deal on this one....

[dereklola]

The rule sounds pretty clear.

That's Article 40.13. Article 40.11 (procedure for Safety Car in when not the last lap) is also clear. The problem is they are incompatible.

The FIA is starting to make the IRL seem professional.

You also have to remember that the French version is the official version and can have subtle differences of meaning from the translated English. For instance while idly browsing through the FIA website just now I came across this - Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a championship season. Should a driver use more than eight engines, he will drop 10 places on the starting grid of the event at which an additional unit is to be used. - so does that mean (quite apart from the peculiar English syntax) at the first event or at all such events?

[Jim Garry]

Schumi's done some pretty wrong things in the past, but I think he's getting a bit of a raw deal on this one....

Yeah, I agree. I'm no fan of his but giving him a 20 sec penalty when the field has been bunched up behind the safety car is a bit disingenuous, no?

[Ted Idlof]

Ross's explanation if you haven't heard it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQerO...layer_embedded

At first, I thought the situation was going to be crystal clear, as Steve Matchett (Mr. Rulebook himself) stated the rule unequivocally well before the incident. But I wonder if he was not surprised by the green flags (and the green light, presumably controlled by someone more in the know than corner workers).

Also, the exact wording of the "SC coming in" message which was relayed to the teams was really misleading, not just vague. If the new rule was in play, that should have been clearly stated, but it wasn't even alluded to.

One would think that Ross has a strong case, until one recalls that this is the FIA he's approaching and it's a Red Car that stands to lose a spot. Lord knows we can't have that, right?

[dereklola]

Ted
Did you read Article 40?
40.11 requires that the green flags and lights be shown when the SC enters the pits (and overtaking can done before the start/finish line) - this applies to any lap.
40.13 then rescinds just the overtaking bit specifically for the last lap.
Not very logical - but them's the facts!
Derek

[Matt King]

Not very logical - but them's the facts!
Derek

If they kept the yellow flags out, it might make sense, but to display green and not allow passing is something only the FIA could dream up.

[Frank C]

Depending upon what the communications were from race officials to the teams during the last caution, it seems that a fair solution to the confusion would be to disallow the pass but not impose a penalty on Schumi, giving him 7th place points.
- Frank C
Edit - Maybe Schumi is getting old and in the excitement forgot he was driving a Mercedes - flashed back to the good old days and thought it was Rubens in the red car so he could pass wherever he wanted.

[jim morgan]

Red Car, Black Helicopters,FIA

[Jnovak]

Lots of FIA rules can be confusing. However I do not think this one is. All the 2 rules (40.11 & 40.13) state is that you can pass after the saftey car goes into the pits EXCEPT if it is the last lap.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[Ted Idlof]

Even though Merc has dropped it's appeal, the situation is acknowledged to be complicated/confusing enough to be taken up by the FIA's Sport Working Group. I'd call that Ross taking the high road.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/0...macher-appeal/

[dereklola]

Not to flog a dead horse but -
- Ross is simply trying to save face (with both the public and with his Daimler bosses)
- - - he doesn't want to admit he goofed
- James Allen has a vested interest in writing controversially to keep people reading his blog
- - - and most of those people don't want to be bothered with facts
- - - - - - they love to write "I think....", "They should have...." etc

He still writes as if green means "Go race" in this situation - silly man. There is no lacuna in Articles 40.11 and 40.13 - although they could be re-written more simply.

[Ted Idlof]

I had to look that one up. Doesn't happen very often.

The rules sound like Caltrans specs; laughably vague and inconsistent. Don't get me started beating that dead horse.

[Clyde]

So the Monaco race ends under "Yellow" BUT they bring the Pace car in, Why? What is the reason for that? I have a few thoughts maybe someone can help me figure this one out; is it because (1) the pace car driver is too tired? (2) the FIA wants to show it is saving the plant by not wasting gasoline! (3) The FIA does not have money to waste on gasoline for the pace car. (4) The FIA wants to prove that "Green" flags & lights do NOT mean to start racing. Will someone help me out here? Thanks

[Jim Garry]

They forgot to give the first lapped car the "Lucky Dog" award.

[Ted Idlof]

goes to Chandhok for not getting killed by Kovalienen's dumb move.

[Hardingfv32]

The rules are simple and clear. What is difficult to discern in this case: Were they in fact on the last lap? Monaco usually ends up a 2 hr timed race. I have no idea how much time was left. There is a chance Ferrari got this wrong. I do not thing there is a method in F1 for the officials to inform the drivers that it is the last lap, so it is up to the teams.

Brian

[Jim Garry]

LONDON (Reuters) - Formula One's governing body has moved to amend the sport's safety car rules after Michael Schumacher was penalised for an overtaking move at last weekend's Monaco Grand Prix.
The International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement Thursday that there was "a lack of clarity" in the application of a rule prohibiting overtaking when the safety car was deployed on the last lap of a race.
"Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the safety car whilst also ensuring that the signalling for teams and drivers is made more clear," it added.
"The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the sporting regulations to address this issue."
The FIA said the amendments would be considered by its World Motor Sport Council at a meeting in Geneva on June 23.

[Jnovak]

If they rewrite the rules then Mikey should get his points back but the pass does not count.

Thanks ... jay

[Ted Idlof]

If they rewrite the rules then Mikey should get his points back but the pass does not count.

Agreed. But that would make too much sense.

Seriously, even though I don't have the lawyer like prurient interest for such details, I've gotten the idea that would be a procedural problem, along the lines of what is appealable and what is not.

[Tifosi]

I thought the ruling was appealable but the penalty was not. Mercedes had to appeal and win the decision to restore the points. Personally I agree with Jay and think they should find a way to score the race with Mike behind Fred. No way green flags and lights should ever be seen if passing isn't allowed.

[Marshall Mauney]

No way green flags and lights should ever be seen if passing isn't allowed.

Agreed. Seems as if the rules as written didn't make a whole lot of sense....

[Ted Idlof]

Looks like RB was almost victimized by bad luck or their own bad mechanicing?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8695692.stm

If they ever get it all going in the same direction at the same time, look out; F-1 will be as boring as when Mikey was kicking ass and leavin' 'em all in the dust.

What's the buzz/predictions for Turkey? Is Hamo going to get back in the race for WDC?

[Jim Garry]

Gotta love David Hobbs. During practice on Friday (Turkish GP), the issue of Hamilton's RF tire degrading was brought up. The response from Bridgestone was that the tires were fine, it was just the individual driver's problem. Hobbs, in his usual droll voice, responded, "yeah, well, they WOULD say that WOULDN'T they!"

[Ted Idlof]

OK, first things first........ Mousecatcher, if you haven't watched Q, stop reading NOW
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Fred. c'mon man, what's the problem? Didn't hear any good reasons
Flippy, you supposedly own this track. you guarding setup problems like Fred?
Seb, wheel lock-ups and more mechanical problems; minor yes, but it prolly cost you pole, right?
Schumi haters, think he spun on purpose to spoil everyone's last flyer?

[dereklola]

Seems Nigel Mansell (remember him?) made some less than complimentary comments about Hamilton's performance this weekend.

"Team boss Martin Whitmarsh responded: "I just hope that Nigel is being misquoted. It happens quite often apparently.""

[mousecatcher]

OK, first things first........ Mousecatcher, if you haven't watched Q, stop reading NOW

i was just surprised to find a thread named "predictions" to contain "results".

[Ted Idlof]

The tightest F-1 WDC race in nearly 50 years and no traffic on here? Where did the fans go?

I'm saying that if Korea happens, any of the 5 could win it. In the more likely scenario that Korea does not happen, it should be between Mark and Fred. Of course Fred has to have some luck with engines.

Anyway, am I the only one still watching...........or interested?

[Beartrax]

Actually, just watched Singapore tonight! Quite a race. I do admire Mark Webber & want him to win the championship, but I was not happy with the contact with Lewis.

Perhaps everyone from Apexspeed are posting their opinions on F1 forums. Or they are too busy caring for their own cars...

[Dave Stevens]

Webber seems to talk a very good game, and qualifies well, but when it comes right down to it in the races, he drives like nothing but a freakin' rock ape. (IMHO!) Can't believe he's actually leading the title fight.

Hopefully, one of the McLaren drivers will be able to string a few together here at the end of the season and steal some points away from the Red Bulls and Ferraris. I'd have to consider giving up watching F1, if that whining weasle Alonso wins, and I think as great a talent as Vettel appears to be, he needs another season or two under his belt before he truley deserves the title.

Kubica was certainly a blast to watch over the last few laps at Singapore, he had to have some of the most exciting laps of anyone, in that tear he put on at the end of the race.

As far as the championship, looks right now to be a two horse race. But if anyone could make up a 20 point deficit in short order, Hamilton seems to have the talent, racecraft, and luck necessary to make it happen. My pick for the title, Hamilton in a come from behind upset, garnishing the points lead at the final race of the season. (Hopefully)

Dave

[Marshall Mauney]

Actually, just watched Singapore tonight! Quite a race. I do admire Mark Webber & want him to win the championship, but I was not happy with the contact with Lewis.

I'm not so sure - where was Webber supposed to go? He was as far left as he could reasonably go (straddling the curbing), and Hamilton tried to drive down to the apex, assuming Webber would lift.

I think I agree with the stewards on this call (yes, it does happen occasionally).

[Beartrax]

I'm not so sure - where was Webber supposed to go? He was as far left as he could reasonably go (straddling the curbing), and Hamilton tried to drive down to the apex, assuming Webber would lift.

I think I agree with the stewards on this call (yes, it does happen occasionally).

I actually agree with the stewards call as well. I also agree that Webber could not have gone any more lto the left, but he could have lifted a bit and missed the contact since Hamilton was already past him. I do believe Hamilton came too far in and I blame him for the incident. I feel it was close racing that just got too close. No penalty was required in my mind.

[Ted Idlof]

Three drivers and.............what should be 3(?) races. It'll be a laugher if they try to race on 10 day old asphalt in Korea.

anyway, Webb's in the lead and probably the fan favorite. Fred's got a shot if engines hold up. Seb will be tough unless he self destructs, although I expect a few minor screw ups that will likely cost him the WDC.


anyone else still watching?

[Stan Clayton]

Seb will be tough unless he self destructs, although I expect a few minor screw ups that will likely cost him the WDC.

I predict he craters, a la Hamster at China in his rookie year.

anyone else still watching?

On the edge of my seat, man!

2010 WDC = Webber...

[Roger Eade]

I like the way Webber set the Track record, or fastest time in race, on the last lap, I think that was giving his team mate the bird, big time SV is ok when not under pressure, and I think Webber has had the word that its not his to win, it has to go to golden boy, I just hope he has the balls to stick it to him in the last race.
Roger

[85 SWIFT DB1]

I like the way Webber set the Track record, or fastest time in race, on the last lap, I think that was giving his team mate the bird, big time SV is ok when not under pressure, and I think Webber has had the word that its not his to win, it has to go to golden boy, I just hope he has the balls to stick it to him in the last race.
Roger

Absolutely Roger, Webber has racecraft, Vettel is good when its him against the video simulator or in track free of traffic.

Mark has had a great season in a great car.

I wonder if Vettel would cope in say a Force India or Virgin car. He'd be back in 18th I suspect.

My 2 bobs worth.

[Stan Clayton]

It looks to me like it's Webber's to lose. Seb or Fred have to keep winning in order to take it, while Webber has only to keep the big picture in mind and keep landing on the podium.

Whomever wins, at least it's been a good close fight all year long!

[racer27]

I think the championship is going to be lost or won in qualifying. Seb won that last race by putting car on pole. Webber could not risk an overtaking move. If Webber would of gotten pole, I don't think they would let Seb attack. In inter-team racing, I think the pressure to out quilify team-mate is going to be intese as that will probably determine the #1 for that race. As long as two drives in same team have chance, #1 will be determined on a case by case basis by who quilifies higher.

I got a feeling one of the contenders is going to screw it up going for pole and lose championship there. Out of all the drivers who might do that, I think webber & button are least likely.

[Cole Morgan]

I wonder if Vettel would cope in say a Force India or Virgin car. He'd be back in 18th I suspect.

My 2 bobs worth.

I would say Alonso, Webber, Hamilton, or any other top guys would be around 18th in a Virgin car. Vettel has made his mistakes and shown his weaknesses, but he is ridiculously fast. Remember how much Senna, and Schumacher crashed in the early part of their career? Seb is only 23. Remember the 2008 Italian GP? He took a decent Red Bull car on to victory in the rain against a far superior cars and more experienced drivers.

Vettel is the most talented driver in the field.

[Matt M.]

Vettel is the most talented driver in the field.

He's a boob. He can drive - but he and Webber don't have half a brain between them.

Fast Freddie for President......