Kent blocks

[yamahatz]

When choosing between the various Kent blocks what are their pros and cons? I came across some in a salvage yard and am trying to determine (price and condition being equal) which ones is more desirable: Pinto engine, Fiesta engine, or Cortina engine? I have a 72 Hawke DL9 if that has any impact which one is most suitable. So far I am leaning toward the Cortina. Thanks for your assistance.

p.s. What is a reasonable price for a salvage motor with head etc?

[provamo]

buy them all!

[DanW]

The 711M block was introduced in 1971 as the uprated Kent. It is stronger and a bit heavier than the earlier 2737E Cortina block. It should have square main caps. The 711 crank and rods are good for use with the right prep.

The 771M Fiesta block is good for your purposes if it has the 4 bosses cast in both sides of the block for motor mounts. Otherwise its good only for a later car that does not use the side motor mounts.
The rods will be useable and so will the crank if you use a spacer between the crank flange and the flywheel.

The 2737E is the original Cortina GT model used for FF in the early days, pre 1971. Round main caps that are not as strong as the square caps. If you can get a set of square caps you can align bore the block to fit them. Rods are good. The GT motor is a bit lighter and has smaller lifter bores. If you run the 2737E motor complete, you can bore +0.030 legally if you can find pistons and rings. The pocketed head with the small valves run out of breath at about 5500 RPM.

The Kent Lives website has some good general info:
http://www.thekentlives.com/thekentengine.htm

Here is a brief explanation for the twincam oriented crowd, but does have the history of where the family tree grew. Note the explanation of the "T" numbers which denote the thickness of the cylinder bores and therefore the fitness for sleeving.

If you find a 681M block with short deck height or a 701M, grab it. The sale of either one can help you fund your rebuild, especialy if there is an "L" cast in the motor mount area. Some of those are graded on the front of the block above the timing cover as LA, LB, etc. These are desirable for the Lotus twincam vintage racers and restorers.

http://www.lotus-cortina.com/library/block/blocks.htm

If I am in error here, someone will hopefully set us straight. I would also recommend getting Jake's book for the education on prep and maintenance.

Cost? I have been fortunate to find complete core engines from private parties for less than $150, and found a 2737E runner for someone for $300. He put it in his Cortna on a Saturday and drove it to work on Monday. YMMV

Best regards,
Dan Wise

[yamahatz]

Thanks for quick response. I have seen what some of the cylinder heads are worth and it almost seems like it is cheaper to buy a complete motor than a loose head for sale on EBAY. I think the smart move would be to buy two of the engines if the price stays low. If there is a 681 block I will buy it first.

[bob darcey]

Thanks for quick response. I have seen what some of the cylinder heads are worth and it almost seems like it is cheaper to buy a complete motor than a loose head for sale on EBAY. I think the smart move would be to buy two of the engines if the price stays low. If there is a 681 block I will buy it first.

Read Dan's "Lotus" link carefully. There are two Ford blocks with the 681F 6015 designation. The 7.78" block height version was used for the 2.864" stroke Twin Cam motors (would have the large "L" raised casting within the motor mount bosses) and is very desirable, but not for FF 1600 use. Ford also used the same 681F designation for a 8.21" block height motor (to accommodate the 3.056 stroke for the 1600 crossflow). This 681 block and the 2737 are "Cortina" blocks (a.k.a. "original", small tappet bores, rounded main caps, 8.21" height) and are not the blocks of choice for FF unless you are really into authenticity, pre-1972. The block of choice would be the 711M, as in a 1600 Pinto. The 771M Fiesta is also legal and usable, but has the mounting boss issues. For FF use, the 711M is by far the most desirable. YMMV, but a good 711M is probably worth ~$500, and a good 681 (non-"L") ~$200.

[rickb99]

There is another question that needs to be asked.

What will the older 711 blocks be worth IF Ford does release the new blocks in June/July?

[stephen wilson]

If you end up needing a head, I have a FF head w/ valve train that I'll be putting up for sale shortly for ~$250.
Steve

[Jerry B.]

Locally availiable Ford cases will save on freight and the price of seasoned blocks might go down or even stay the same because of that seasoning.

.....no one adressed cyl heads. As I undersnd it....the heads with smog ports drilled are not desirable.

[scorp997]

the Pinto cylinder heads have a 'chambered' head, not what the uprated FF engines used. The Fiesta head is flat, but have small ports and valves, requiring a lot of work to bring it up to spec.

so basically, the junk yard engines are good for the block, rods, front and rear covers, rocker arms/shafts, valve cover, pushrods, Pinto flywheel, Pinto distributor, and (some would disagree) the crank (Fiesta needs a spacer).

the cam, pistons, head, Fiesta front cover, pulleys, Fiesta flywheel, Fiesta distributor, oil pan (unless you want to modify it for dry sump), and oil pump are not usable in the FF engine.

Almost always the block will need to be sleeved, so keep that in mind. The pistons are low compression and are not legal (or ideal). cam is a smog item with low lift...

[DanW]

Thanks for quick response. I have seen what some of the cylinder heads are valued and it almost seems like it is cheaper to buy a complete motor than a loose head for sale on EBAY. I think the smart move would be to buy two of the engines if the price stays low. If there is a 681 block I will buy it first.

Gents,

Thanks for the clarifications of my eariler post. After a long day its tough to write well enough to be understood, let along put the words down in an organized manner.

It is likely cheaper to to buy a complete rebuilt or low time engine from carb to clutch than it is to piece it together from a core motor.

Refurbishing a core block costs $700-800 min at a no name local shop. $1700+ for a complete rotating assembly including refurbished rods, steel crank, forged pistons, balancing, turning the flywheel and new ring gear. Add a cam, lifters, pushrods, water pump, dry sump pump... The mind boggles. Add a head, valve train, water pump..

Add labor to assemble, dyno, final check and write the check..

There was a complete rebuilt carb to clutch engine by Farley on ebay about two months ago that did not meet reserve when the bidding ended at $3100. It had a cast crank and cast hepolite pistons. It would be just fine for a vintage racer who isn't likely to spin it within an inch of its life and give several years of good service if properly maintained. Perhaps contact him and make an offer...

There have been offers of complete engines for sale recently that may still be available for a fair price.

Regards,
Dan