Can you identify this?

[joshuagore]

I was told it was bought new maybe 5 years ago. No miles. I want to identify the car before driving 200 miles to see if I fit.... 6'2" and hmm round is a nice word.

If anyone has an ideas that would be great.

Thanks,
Josh

[problemchild]

From those pics, unless someone knows this exact car, you will be told that it is a Lynx with extended roll bar, custom tail and aftermarket nose.

There were lots of Lynx clones out there ..... which is good because most of them were made bigger and wider inside. The car would be vintage-eligible if presented as a Lynx. If the car was built 5 years ago, it was copied from a 30 year old design. Most likely, it had a major refurbishing at that time.

Having a serviceable fuel cell is the first thing to check. You also should check that the extended roll bar is done right and is legal. Generally, forward braces need to be atleast 30 degrees angle. Specifically, a Lynx needs gussetting/bracing of the upper frame rail where those braces meet. That hoop will definitely attract official attention when it goes through tech, so make sure it is right or budget to redo it.

Cheers!

PS .... A vintage Lynx is probably worth more than a non-vintage Lynx .... although that may be insignificant in this economy and the used FV marketplace.

[joshuagore]

From those pics, unless someone knows this exact car, you will be told that it is a Lynx with extended roll bar, custom tail and aftermarket nose.

There were lots of Lynx clones out there ..... which is good because most of them were made bigger and wider inside. The car would be vintage-eligible if presented as a Lynx. If the car was built 5 years ago, it was copied from a 30 year old design. Most likely, it had a major refurbishing at that time.

Having a serviceable fuel cell is the first thing to check. You also should check that the extended roll bar is done right and is legal. Generally, forward braces need to be atleast 30 degrees angle. Specifically, a Lynx needs gussetting/bracing of the upper frame rail where those braces meet. That hoop will definitely attract official attention when it goes through tech, so make sure it is right or budget to redo it.

Cheers!

PS .... A vintage Lynx is probably worth more than a non-vintage Lynx .... although that may be insignificant in this economy and the used FV marketplace.

Wow I couldn't have asked for a better response. The asking price for the car is $3000 including what looks to be a custom trailer. I have all of the sellers original receipts being faxed to me. This should explain the car, or leave even more questions.

The more I know the more I will update this thread. Thanks again.
Josh

[Bill Bonow]

I'd agree with Greg. High probibility that this is an older Lynx type car with major refurbishments a few years ago and parked. I think Greg sees the same thing as I do, the roll bar forward bracing looks to be questionable. I would make sure the roll hoop modifications and bracing is legal.

Has the car been raced? Log book? Homologation papers? Projects like this can appear to be a "good deal", but without some pedagree the project could turn out to cost way more than anticipated.

Where is the car at? Good chance that a local guy will know the history of the car. If the current owner insists that it is new (no history or papers), my suggestion is buy low, very low. There are comparable Lynx type cars out there with more parts for less money.

[joshuagore]

I'd agree with Greg. High probibility that this is an older Lynx type car with major refurbishments a few years ago and parked. I think Greg sees the same thing as I do, the roll bar forward bracing looks to be questionable. I would make sure the roll hoop modifications and bracing is legal.

Has the car been raced? Log book? Homologation papers? Projects like this can appear to be a "good deal", but without some pedagree the project could turn out to cost way more than anticipated.

Where is the car at? Good chance that a local guy will know the history of the car. If the current owner insists that it is new (no history or papers), my suggestion is buy low, very low. There are comparable Lynx type cars out there with more parts for less money.

The current owner has never had the car on the track at all, and says it was bought 'new', and yes I know this likely means refurbished. The car is located in Ann Arbor Michigan. If no Homoligation papers, or logbook, then I figure an easy $1000 off. The trailer is compelling to me if its lightweight enough to tow behind my old bimmer wagon. This would be my first foray into open wheel, and although I tig, and have a machine shop, I would like for it to be mostly ready to go out of the box. Time will tell. My wife is going to kill me if I buy a car before I sell my Fiat

Josh

[Bill Bonow]

Josh,

Being in Ann Arbor, good chance that it was built/raced (previous life) with Waterford Hill Road Racing Club http://www.waterfordhills.com/cms/news.php There are plenty of WHRRC guys here at Apex. Good chance that one of them will know something about the car.

Per chance is the owner Jason Steeb? He is the only guy I know in Ann Arbor with a Lynx B.

[Dave Woodmancy]

Well I don't recognize the car off hand but maybe the sellers name would help?

I can tell you it is not the Jason Steeb Lynx, it is currently being converted to FST

[joshuagore]

She never raced the car her name if I remember correctly is Felicia Hardy.
Josh

[rickb99]

......driving 200 miles to see if I fit.... 6'2" and hmm round is a nice word.

MAKE that trip before buying! My son is 6' 2" and about 185 pounds. He can 'just' get in to a Caracal FV (we didn't buy it) but the pedals would need work so he could drive it.

But then, I've seen a 6' 4" guy pack himself in to an F500 and drive it to a championship. So it depends upon how you're built and the specific car.

[joshuagore]

MAKE that trip before buying! My son is 6' 2" and about 185 pounds. He can 'just' get in to a Caracal FV (we didn't buy it) but the pedals would need work so he could drive it.

But then, I've seen a 6' 4" guy pack himself in to an F500 and drive it to a championship. So it depends upon how you're built and the specific car.

Yes I am far to round to leave it to chance. I agree 110%, if the glove doesn't fit etc...

[rickjohnson356]

I agree with the others, that you need to check the specs on the rollbar before buying the car.

The scca web site (scca.com or scca.org) has the GCR on line. Check the rollbar specs for the MINIMUM RADIUS for the main hoop.

Highlights:

Main hoop needs to be made out of 1-3/8" tubing. This is the major factor along with the radius limitation for this car.

braces can be 1" tubing, I believe. Don't worry about those on this car-- easy to fix by cutting out the old ones and putting in new ones that are compliant.

Cars need to have a front roll hoop of 1-3/8 tubing as well, usually at the place where the dash is mounted. Some older 'barn-find' cars, like this one, did not have the correct front roll hoop.

you could always run it as an autocross car until you got the rest of the problems (if any) fixed.

[joshuagore]

I agree with the others, that you need to check the specs on the rollbar before buying the car.

The scca web site (scca.com or scca.org) has the GCR on line. Check the rollbar specs for the MINIMUM RADIUS for the main hoop.

Highlights:

Main hoop needs to be made out of 1-3/8" tubing. This is the major factor along with the radius limitation for this car.

braces can be 1" tubing, I believe. Don't worry about those on this car-- easy to fix by cutting out the old ones and putting in new ones that are compliant.

Cars need to have a front roll hoop of 1-3/8 tubing as well, usually at the place where the dash is mounted. Some older 'barn-find' cars, like this one, did not have the correct front roll hoop.

you could always run it as an autocross car until you got the rest of the problems (if any) fixed.

I have the roll hoop details all printed up. I will have my calipers, tape, and gcr in hand. I also have all the other vee rules in hand. I like I said have fabrication capabilities, but that being said, it can come to a point where its no longer the best car on the market for me. I am considering other cars, but the higher the initial cost the more likely the wife will want the Fiat gone
Josh

p.s. I am not sure if the Vee guys are just anxious for another clown to pass, or if your just very helpful, either way I very much appreciate it.

[Daryl DeArman]

p.s. I am not sure if the Vee guys are just anxious for another clown to pass, or if your just very helpful, either way I very much appreciate it.

From my years in the class....I assure you it's BOTH

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Josh,

What is your goal / plan in FV? Are you looking for a car to vintage race, run some occasional regionals, or are you hoping to be competitive running nationals?

[joshuagore]

Josh,

What is your goal / plan in FV? Are you looking for a car to vintage race, run some occasional regionals, or are you hoping to be competitive running nationals?

My goal is to get my license with SCCA run MC, and see how it goes. I want to give myself a year to get in the groove, get back in shape, and form some sort of routine. This will test how it works with my career, my family life, and my other hobbies(mainly photography and engineering so that will not stretch things).
That being said, I can't do anything and not try and win, but I figure race first.
I have been working with a team which races S2's for the past 2 seasons(mechanic, and data), and prior to that I have tracked, raced oval, but never had a road racing license. I am an engineering/product designer by trade, and spend almost all free time working in a machine shop tinkering with things with wheels. Welding, machining, building, tinkering etc...

Josh

[DaveB]

As stated above make sure it has a front roll hoop as the Original Lynx did not.

Dave

[Campbell Motorsport]

Below is a comment I made in October to another person looking at "project vees." I have a feeling the majority of those that responded so far would agree.
...............

There are several very good deals out there in all classes, it pays to look and do your homework. I have watched several people over the years buy a "budget" car because of the attractive, low price. The often pass over cars, that while initially more expensive, have far more and better equipment then the budget car they ultimately buy. Soon they are unhappy with the performance and/or find a number of unexpected surprises. Wasted weekends and unfinished races are not fun and are not cheap. Fast forward 12 to 24 months, the cheap (budget) car has sucked up a lot of extra money. The total investment in the car now equals or exceeds the car they passed on earlier, and it still isn't as nice. Buy the best car you can you will not regret it.

Larry Campbell

[joshuagore]

Below is a comment I made in October to another person looking at "project vees." I have a feeling the majority of those that responded so far would agree.
...............

There are several very good deals out there in all classes, it pays to look and do your homework. I have watched several people over the years buy a "budget" car because of the attractive, low price. The often pass over cars, that while initially more expensive, have far more and better equipment then the budget car they ultimately buy. Soon they are unhappy with the performance and/or find a number of unexpected surprises. Wasted weekends and unfinished races are not fun and are not cheap. Fast forward 12 to 24 months, the cheap (budget) car has sucked up a lot of extra money. The total investment in the car now equals or exceeds the car they passed on earlier, and it still isn't as nice. Buy the best car you can you will not regret it.

Larry Campbell

I can't disagree with the above in any way shape or form. There are deals and then there are 'deals'. Time and information will tell which this car is.
Josh

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Josh,

Check you private messages.

[fvkartguy]

PS .... A vintage Lynx is probably worth more than a non-vintage Lynx .... although that may be insignificant in this economy and the used FV marketplace.

Very true... I have a '75 Lynx that looks a LOT like this car (without the extended roll hoop) and it's really not worth much at this point so I have the choice of converting it back to vintage or to FST... My advice, leave it as vintage.

[HayesCages]

Josh,
I hava an original Lynx chassis in the shop now if you want pics of it for comparison. It's stripped bare and blasted so you can see how the up-dated front roll hoop looks and the original main hoop as well.
Let me know.
Lawrence

[joshuagore]

Josh,
I hava an original Lynx chassis in the shop now if you want pics of it for comparison. It's stripped bare and blasted so you can see how the up-dated front roll hoop looks and the original main hoop as well.
Let me know.
Lawrence

If you can email me pictures at me@joshgoreworks.com that would be great.
Once again to everyone, thanks for the help.
Josh

[smsazzy]

I would encourage you to go to www.sracing.com and take a look at the for sale section there. You are better off buying something that HAS been raced, as that means it is sorted and ready to go. I also caution against buying a "starter" car. The resale market for a starter car is nearly non existant if you decide you don't like it. If you decide you do like it, you will be selling this car and upgrading to a competitive car in a year or two anyway. Spend a little more now and you'll be happier later.

[joshuagore]

So who here is big, like 250lb 6'2" big? And what chassis have you fit in?
Josh

[problemchild]

FV does not have men of that size racing competitively. There are a few who have super-lite-weight super-fragile chassis and can be relatively competitive .... but that is very rare.

While someone of that size, may fit in some cars, they will be uncompetitive because they are 50+lbs overweight. When you hear of people who win when 50 lbs overweight, it is because they have a large advantage in talent, hp, or budget. Someone on the minimum weight, with identical talent, hp, prep, and budget will kick their ass most of the time.

If someone is 250 lbs and lives in MI, then considering FST over FV, is a pretty obvious decision.

I have raced both. At 230lbs in FST, I need security ballast (5lbs). I am now building the lightest FV that I feel will be safe ...... and praying that I will come in within 40 lbs of minimum weight. I have accepted that I won't be Nationally competitive, but chosen the safety option.

Buying a $2500 race car is a reasonable and fair way to get started if you are mechanically inclined. If you restored that Fiat, I would think that there is a good chance you can grow into the role. You need to assume that you will need lots and lots .... but you bought $5K worth of parts for $2500. If you buy the $5k car, you are still getting $5K worth of parts, but you are assuming (hoping) that the car is much closer to race-ready. The trick is to find the $5-10K car that is truly race ready. They are out there .... but it is often difficult to tell them from the cars that need $5k to put them on the track.

You need to find a buyer for the Fiat so that you have some options

PS .... I am sure that some will disagree with my conclusions. I have been living this weight/performance issue for 30 yrs. Finding, building, modifying race cars to be lighter has been an endless quest. The one single factor in my best years ,,,, was being within 15 lbs of minimum weight.

[smsazzy]

Quinn Posner is very competitive. He was 250 pounds when he raced his Mysterian. He's trimmed down a bit now, but I would guess is still over 200 pounds. He's in a Protoform now.

Brad is pretty competitive and he's not petite.

I lost 40 pounds after i bought my first car. If you love it, you'll make the commitment. 250 pounds is not a "natural" weight. Unless someone has a medical condition, they are choosing to weigh 250 pounds.

[problemchild]

Man .... that was quick.

It normally takes several posts before the fat shots start.

If someone can win in a Mysterian @ 250 lbs ..... he is one helluva driver!

I would think that all my comments would apply to Brad. He has it all .... and I know he would agree that he is more competitive as he gets closer to the minimum weight.

[veefan]

Your best bet is to find a car that was run by a person with the same build as you. Several builders have custom built and/or modified cars for large drivers, sit in a car for a while... and see if its comfortable. Greg is 100% correct... bang for the buck, you are much better off finding a race ready car. A new fuel cell for a Lynx goes for about $1,000. It's a buyers market for cars...

[smsazzy]

Man .... that was quick.

It normally takes several posts before the fat shots start!

Greg,

That wasn't a fat shot at all. I bought my first FV and loved it. I knew I was too big. I lost 40 pounds. All it takes is dedication. I am still larger than most national FV guys at 6'1" 190 pounds. But I am hoping to lose another 10-15 pounds this year.


Seriously though, if anyone has doubts that they can lose weight, send me a note, I'm happy to share my insights into what it took for me. Plus, now I will live longer. :-)

[problemchild]

It is comments like that ... that send people away. Thanks!

[smsazzy]

Greg. I was totally kidding. I'm sorry if I offended you. I was just joking.

[joshuagore]

Quinn Posner is very competitive. He was 250 pounds when he raced his Mysterian. He's trimmed down a bit now, but I would guess is still over 200 pounds. He's in a Protoform now.

Brad is pretty competitive and he's not petite.

I lost 40 pounds after i bought my first car. If you love it, you'll make the commitment. 250 pounds is not a "natural" weight. Unless someone has a medical condition, they are choosing to weigh 250 pounds.

its fitting to read this while eating my salad and ice tea.
Josh

[smsazzy]

There you go! That's what I did. salad instead of pizza. little steps make change.

[joshuagore]

There you go! That's what I did. salad instead of pizza. little steps make change.

I combine this with a bike trainer while playing video games HA. Suprisingly my lap times in the video games have gone down as I have rode the bike trainer while playing.
Josh

p.s. That being said, this could not be the class for me regardless. I don't see myself getting to be a rail, and even when I was a rail I was still 200lb.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

For what it's worth, I'm 6'3" and weighed 203# at the runoffs this year. I work damn hard to keep it there, as each lb over that is a pound more over the minimum. I ride several thousand miles on my bike every year to do it.

You can be over 200# and still be competitive in FV.

[joshuagore]

For what it's worth, I'm 6'3" and weighed 203# at the runoffs this year. I work damn hard to keep it there, as each lb over that is a pound more over the minimum. I ride several thousand miles on my bike every year to do it.

You can be over 200# and still be competitive in FV.

Cool. I am not loosing weight for racing. Racing is just another reason.
Josh

[smsazzy]

I'll bet both Brad and Bill Noble weigh similar to you, and both have won 5 national championships.

I am in the gym 5 days a week, because I think it will help me with my racing program.

Funny that you play video games on the bike, I really think that helps. I downloaded a brain-exercise game onto my iPhone and I play it while on the recumbant bicycle. I think stuff like that really helps, and fitness trainers agree.

I would NOT give up on FV. It is really the only national class in open wheel that is still relatively affordable to start out in.

I would also HIGHLY recommend buying the book "getting started in Formula Vee" from Jim at SR Racing. www.sracing.com

Send me an email or PM if you want to chat directly. I am happy to help you get started however I can. saslow(at)comcast(dot)net

[problemchild]

Alot has to do with your goals and aspirations. If you weighed 150 lbs, then this would be perfect. With a good engine and some upgrades, this could be a National winner and Runoff contender. George Fizell could probably win with it.

At your size, this is a 1100 lb slug that you would need a shoehorn to get in . If just getting out there is the goal ..... then this is an option. You just need to understand .... you, this car, and checkered flags, are unlikely to appear in the same pics.

[smsazzy]

Come to think of it, maybe I should stop working out....

How many national champions have we had under 200 pounds in the last 20 years?

Loughead certainly is, but who else? Stevan Davis is also.....

[rickjohnson356]

The original question was about identifying the car in question, not about becoming a national champion.

as an entry level car, for autocross and driver school and first regional races, it will do.

If, after that, you decide you like to race, then sell it to an autocrosser and move up to a more competitive (and more expensive) car.

it would be better to use your Fiat restoration experience to fix what is wrong with this car, put together an autoX/Driver school engine and have some fun withhout spending 8-10K. you won't be a competitive driver for the first year anyway, so you don't need the best car that exists today.

while you are learning withthis car, you will be able to observe other cars to determine what the best one for your step-up wil be. If you don't want to step up, then you can sell this one to recover some of your cost.

I drove my Beach 5C for 2 yrs in auto x, became region's autox champ, then went to DS. Found out that the car I had was not competitive with the Zinks/Lynx's at the time (1970). Sold the Beach and bought a Zink, because I had confirmed my interest in Road racing without spending a major fortune.

Get used to buying more than one race car--- it happens.