Alternate Pinto camshaft now available

[Dave Gomberg]

Although it has taken longer than anticipated, the recently approved alternate camshaft for the Pinto iron head is now available. Quicksilver has the first ones in hand. Contact them at 301-698-9009.

Dave

[rickb99]

...Quicksilver has the first ones in hand.

? What if I want to call Ivey ?

[Dennis McCarthy]

Call Ivey

[kea]

I was told by a customer that Jay has one now. He is going to run it in a motor (as it should have been before it was rammed through) and find out what it's all about. Give him a call in a couple of days, he should have an answer for you then.

[Rick Iverson]

I am waiting with bated breath.

Iverson

[Keith Roberts]

Anyone get one of these yet?

Keith

[Peter Horvath]

Relax, fellas, what possible difference could it make at this point?

[Rick Kirchner]

Are the cam parameters available such that any regrinder can make it or is this a proprietary part? It seems like to verify compliance the parameters would need to be put in the rulebook somewhere.

I have a slightly pitted "spare" cam and e-mailed Elgin asking for a price on a re-grind and their only response was "call quicksilver".

I have nothing against Sandy, but at one time we had a controlled part available from Ford, Crane, or whoever stocked the part (like BAT, Pegasus, etc).

Do we now have a supplier that will only sell this part thru the engine builder network (even though you can buy his other parts or custom stuff directly)?

[Dave Gomberg]

The specs will be in the next Fastrack (end of next week). For whatever reasons, Elgin seems to not want to do retail sales for these cams and is directing people to engine builders.

Dave

[FC63F]

Do we have any sense of what this new reground cam is going to cost?

David Keep

[DaveW]

Do we have any sense of what this new reground cam is going to cost?

David Keep

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...&postcount=279

[supertiga2]

Do we have any sense of what this new reground cam is going to cost?

David Keep

Are the cams new from blanks or reground?(edit--now I see DaveWs link!)


The cost of reground needs to include the work to restore the valve train geometry to allow for the smaller diameter cam lobe base circle.
This needs to be checked on all pinto cams.
When incorrect cam and follower wear is high.
Open/close/lift also goes wacky.

Longer valve stems or lash caps.( are lash caps SCCA legal?)
Taller adjuster or hope the adjuster does not run out of adjustment.

I think that there are after market rockers/followers to correct this also.


Just thinking out loud here.
Not in SCCA currently so I dont keep up with rules changes.

A little more out loud thinking---
Several years ago our youngest boy raced karts in Briggs light.
Similar cam rules and checking to the f/f f/C S/2.

After market (crane-comp etc.)grinders were able to grind cams that met the stock checking specs but put out 10-20% more HP.
I built/flowed etc our engines and saw this with my own eyes!
There is more to the story than just the cam as we used very week springs so the valves could "float" and coil bind to stop the valve. Extra lift(.25 increased to .4lift) and duration increase during float. the valve/follower should land at the correct place on lobe and not cause damage.
Try that in a OHV engine!
One day------


We did (He?)win 2nd in state champ his first year and 1st his second year---then found girls and drag racing


David

[Phil Creighton]

At least $300 + core and only the correct FF2000 cams can be ground. How do I know - I had a dozen Pinto auto cams that came out of service engines when I was in that business and none of them (all new ) were acceptable spec for Elgin. I know the engine builders that sent good cores in were being charged that sort of money plus some inflated freight charges so I don't know the retail price but would be surprised to see it less than $400 each outright.
Phil

[rickb99]

Phil,

Are you saying that even though a cam may be in service in an FC now, there's a HIGH probability that it won't be a candidate for regrind?

[supertiga2]

At least $300 + core and only the correct FF2000 cams can be ground. How do I know - I had a dozen Pinto auto cams that came out of service engines when I was in that business and none of them (all new ) were acceptable spec for Elgin. I know the engine builders that sent good cores in were being charged that sort of money plus some inflated freight charges so I don't know the retail price but would be surprised to see it less than $400 each outright.
Phil

[Pinto auto cams that came out of service engines](Capri also)
This is the cam the rules were written around--right?

And they don't met spec!?!?!?!
If this is the case then any worn cam will not met spec.

Keeping in mind that any regrind reduces base circle dia---not good on a pinto!

I think ford only had one part number cam for the 2.0 German made engine?

What happened with the Crane and others?

Phil
If the cams are new ford parts use em!!!!!!
Unless they do not degree out right or have a non legal P/N on them--would be hard to belive

David.

[rossracing]

Most service engines in the last years you could get them new were for an automatic trans application that took a different cam that does not meet specs. Its close but....................
All the engine builders have some of these I would think but they don't make it. Has nothing to do with worn cams
Phil

[supertiga2]

HUMMMM

Automatic vs manual cam.

I have a couple from automatic and several standard ones as well as Nelson, Ivy ,QS ,Elite---one day will check them and see.--one day--

Not enough time.........

What ever cam anyone doing it yourself needs to check and correct the geometry.

Off one way increases lift and duration.
Off the other decreases lift and duration.
As the spec is valve lift(memory?)at cam deg this can cause legal cam to fail SCCA spec.
Off much either way and valve train suffers---lobe/follower wear is real high.

David

[drdestructo]

Just put in the new cam I received from Jay Ivey. He told me that in order to use your old one as a core it needed to be 1.437 total thickness at the lobes minimum. My smallest lobe on my cam is 1.430 and the biggest is 1.432. I'm going to have him re-check the minimum number. I'll post word here.

Someone will ask what I paid for the cam. That would require looking at a receipt and I don't have any interest in doing that! I've dealt with Jay for nearly 30 years and he is straight up. It is what it is. I'm not even sure if I have paid for it yet.

I also had him supervise the machining of my flywheel. He was only able to safely get it to 11 lbs. I'm leaving a half pound on the table. Oh well.

Your mileage may vary,

Russ Werner
Park City

[Art_Chu]

The price for the cam will be under $200 if your existing cam can be reground (the expected situation). If you need a new blank, it will be under $300.

Dave

At least $300 + core and only the correct FF2000 cams can be ground. How do I know - I had a dozen Pinto auto cams that came out of service engines when I was in that business and none of them (all new ) were acceptable spec for Elgin. I know the engine builders that sent good cores in were being charged that sort of money plus some inflated freight charges so I don't know the retail price but would be surprised to see it less than $400 each outright.
Phil

So what's the price for the new cam? Anyone? A quick check, and as Dave says, it costs around $175-$200 for a shop to regrind a cam. How is it that we are now talking $300 +core?? Where does that number come from?

I have a cam and $200 check- to whom do I send it for regrinding, per Dave above?

[Modo]

perky little things though !!

[cleaver racecar engineering]

could somebody please post the spec. of cam. Also if tested does it live up to what is claimed as this soutght of imformation is scarce out here in oz.

[JHandley]

Now that the season is over up here in the Great Lakes region, who do I contact with respect to purchasing the new cam and about getting my flywheel machined?
Thanx in advance,
Jeff

[Stan Clayton]

...who do I contact with respect to purchasing the new cam and about getting my flywheel machined?

Jeff, any Pinto engine builder can do it for you. Steve Knapp at Elite Engines , (262) 306-1977, did the original flywheel lightening as a "proof of concept" project for the Club, and is close to you. Stan

[Steve Demeter]

Jeff,
Take the flywheel to Rex Gunning.

He did mine

[racer27]

According to Elite, some flywheels can't safely be lightened. I got a new one prepped and setup for a Tilton 7.25 Clutch. expensive at $550, but a fine piece.

[JHandley]

Jeff,
Take the flywheel to Rex Gunning.

He did mine

Emailed him, Steve.
It'll be going to Wilmington as soon as I get it out!!

[JHandley]

Jeff, any Pinto engine builder can do it for you. Steve Knapp at Elite Engines , (262) 306-1977, did the original flywheel lightening as a "proof of concept" project for the Club, and is close to you. Stan

Thanx Stan, I'll call him about the cam. My engine builder will take care of the flywheel.

[Bob Coury]

Sitting here recovering from some unexpected "minor" surgery instead of being at PBI racing this weekend. So I am contemplating having a new old stock German Ford camshaft getting ground to the newest allowable SCCA spec.

1. Do I deal directly with the ginder? or go thru a builder?
2. Will this re-grind accelerate wear on my valve train?
3. Will I have to make any modifications to my valve train?
4. I assume I would have to degree the cam again. correct? I only have about 800 miles or so on this build, and would hate to pull the engine to do this if I don't have to.
5. If I had to pick and choose, would the money be better spent on a lighter flywheel?
6. Would amatuers like me with a cast iron head notice any difference?

The lobes look like they measure 1.439-1.440”

Trying to determine if the" juice is worth the extra squeeze" (as somebody else on this site put it)
Thanks
Bob

[Peter Horvath]

Hi Bob, I had both mod's done last winter, the light flywheel and the new cam.
The light flywheel is a must. It's a cheap mod, and the car becomes more responsive.
I've heard horror stories about over-revving. We don't run a rev-limiter, but it's just not a problem wiith us.
The new cam seems to give the engine a slightly more aggressive tone and maybe an extra decibel of noise at top end.
With it, we lost about a half second, through the first half of the season.
We found that half second eventually, when we realized the power band was around 7,000 to 7,1000 rpm. It used to be at about 6,400 to 6,600.
The dyno sheet showed about a 2 hp increase.
On balance, I'm not sure that I would recommend the new cam.

[DaveW]

...We found that half second eventually, when we realized the power band (did you mean shift point?) was around 7,000 to 7,100 rpm. It used to be at about 6,400 to 6,600...

The cam itself should not have affected the shift point, since the positioning of the cam lobes is no different from the original cam. Cam TIMING, however, is another matter.

The power band is easily changed with cam timing. Advancing the cam lowers the RPM for peak power, and retarding the cam raises it. When I ran the Pinto engine, I ALWAYS ran more camshaft advance than necessary for peak power numbers (I'd give up a HP or 2 at peak, but raise the HP below 6200) - it made the engine more responsive, made gearing and shift point less critical, and added engine life due to less RPM's necessary for peak performance. I adjusted the cam timing so that I could shift at 6600 under normal circumstances and almost never shifted above 6800.

[Bob Coury]

Thanks guys.

[Nardi]

That flyweel pic looks a lot like one I saw on e-bay. Item 320446688947

[Rick Iverson]

.... He told me that in order to use your old one as a core it needed to be 1.437 total thickness at the lobes minimum.

The lobes look like they measure 1.439-1.440”

So, it looks like 1.440" minimum to be an acceptable candidate for a re-grind, right?

[FASTDAD]

Dave,

I setting up my own cam timing. Could you post or send pm what degrees timing you used. In short what procedure did you you use with actual numbers. I'v got degree wheels and dial indicaters etc.
Thanks
Fastdad

[DaveW]

Dave,

I setting up my own cam timing. Could you post or send pm what degrees timing you used. In short what procedure did you you use with actual numbers. I'v got degree wheels and dial indicaters etc.
Thanks
Fastdad

I have to admit, I never started from scratch. I always started from the cam timing that QS arrived at on the dyno. So, I have never had to use a degree wheel!

If this was a running motor, and you know what the power curve was, you can just vary the timing by a few degrees at a time either way to get the power curve that "feels right" on the track (adv = more low end torque, retard = more top end power). That's what I used to do.

[rp]

The specs will be in the next Fastrack (end of next week). For whatever reasons, Elgin seems to not want to do retail sales for these cams and is directing people to engine builders.

Dave

I have not seen any cam specs in Fastrack for the new Elgin F/2000 cam . did I miss it or are not available yet ?
rp

[Dave Gomberg]

I have not seen any cam specs in Fastrack for the new Elgin F/2000 cam . did I miss it or are not available yet ?
rp

You missed it. I'm not going to back and look for it because the specs are in the 2010 GCR. See pages i82-183 for both the standard cam and the alternate cam.

Dave