Runoff Results

[Ray Grienke]

For those of us who have a real job, would someone post daily results (practice and qual) from the Runoffs?

Ray

[robbie ferstl]

scca.org usually does...

[robbie ferstl]

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...lts/index.html

[Al Craighead]

Session Notes here: http://www.usf2000.com/runoffs-fc.htm
Photos here: http://www.usf2000.com/photos/Runoffs-FC.htm

Cheers,

Al.

[Rob Hogenmiller]

Am I reading right that there is a 1971 vehicle at the RunOffs in the FC?

Charles Moran aboard a 71F Crossle.

Or is that just the model # with Crossles.

[dc]

Its great to see Mark and Mike showing well up at the front. Go get 'em, guys!

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Doug Carter ]

[Rick Silver]

Rob, that is the model number. I think the car is an earlt 90s vintage with rocker suspension front and rear. Chuck regularly runs well at the nationals with that car and even won 2 national races last year in wet/dry conditions.

-Rick

[Rob Hogenmiller]

Thanks Rick,

Rocker arms? Is this where the suspension is outside the body work somewhat?

[Tom Johnson]

Rob:

A rocker car has the spring & shock inboard. The upper A-arm acts like a teeter-totter, with the wheel on one end and the coil-over on the other. When the car hits a bump, the wheel goes up, the a-arm pivots about the attachment point on the chassis, and the spring/shock is compressed.

There are couple reasons pushrod is theoretically and practically superior, but I'll leave that for the tech section and somebody smarter than me to explain.

[dc]

Results from FC:

1 - Mike Andersen
2 - Dave Weitzenhof
3 - Arie Luyendyk Jr
4 - Ron Thomas
5 - Mark Defer
6 - Philip Lombardi
7 - Dustin Hodges
8 - John Brumder
9 - Tim Minor
10 - Russell Lindemann

Way to go Mike! Bravo also to forum members Dave W and Mark D. Nice job, guys!

[Bullitt]

Congratulations to all the finishers and those who tried but didn't.

Mike Anderson -- special congratulations again! When are you going to go back to a Pro Series and beat up on them (again)?

BTW -- from what I have heard (couldn't go to spectate because of father's health concern), Arie's son finished ahead of Dave W. but was moved back one place for an on-track incident with Dave. Confirmation or the real story anyone?

Hey Ron Thomas -- pretty good run!

Bob Layman

[Richard Pare]

Arie was penalised by the Stewards for multiple blatant blocks, the last of which resulted in a bent up left front wing for Dave. The crowd was booing Arie every time he went by!

Even with the bent wing (and swaybars adjusted bass-ackwards), Dave still ran 27's. It would have been an interesting battle between him & Tom if he had been able to get by Arie right away.

[Tim Reed]

It's been a while since I've stirred things up. This is from Speedvision's web site.

""I'm upset," said Weitzenhof after the race. "I went
down the inside on one lap and Luyendyk blocked me,
so I went to the outside and he chopped me. The next
lap I tried the outside first and he blocked me and
then I went to the inside and he tried to drive me off
the track. It was either get hit or crash. I think that I
could have chased the winner down but with the front
wing broken I had to settle for third; or rather third
was settled for me by Luyendyk."

Luyendyk's description of the race was, obviously,
different: "As far as Weitzenhof is concerned, my car
was quicker than his. He made an attempt on me and I
made my one move and he ran into the back of me. It
was nothing more than a racing accident."

[Mike B]

It's very difficult to run into the back of a car that's faster than yours.

[Mike Andersen]

Thanks, Doug & Bob. It was an interesting week to say the least. I didn't get to see what happened with Arie & Dave, but I heard about it after the race.

Mike Andersen

[Tab]

That was a fine observation Mr. Beauchamp...I like that

Congrats Mike A. Mark and Dave I think Arie was preparing himself for the Inbred racing league crash fest in his future. Gotta practice on someone.

[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: Tab M ]

[PK]

I happened to be in the stands outside the braking area at the end of the back straight. I gotta say Dave's description matches what I saw a whole lot better than Luyendyk's. I'm dying to see it on Speedvision (12/01/01 10:00 pm - http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...edvision.html) to confirm what I thought I saw.

Truly impressive for Dave to maintain the speed with what must have been lift on the left front wing considering the direction it was bent.

[Tom Johnson]

From reports of A.L.'s tactics and the tone of his arrogant quote, it sounds like he'll make an excellent F1 driver...

[Richard Pare]

It's pretty obvious when the second of 2 cars maintains a constant 1/2 - 1 car length gap to the 1st car that the second car is quicker! Dave's times were all mid 28's up to the point of contact, and the first 2 afterwards were low 27's as he tried to catch back up, then dropped back to 28's as his tires degraded. Dave felt that he could have run in the 26's without any trouble if he hadn't had a rolling chicane in front of him (my description, not his!).

I would also say that Dave's performance proves the point that you do not need a brand new car to go fast (Dave's was built in '94) - just hard work and intelligent sorting.

Arie might make a good driver some day, but he has yet to learn that you never let the leader romp away unchallenged while holding up a faster car - you let the faster car go so as to put pressure on the leader in hopes that the extra pace ruins his tires enough to allow you to catch up and maybe have a chance for a pass. It's a little something they call race strategy.

Congrats, Mike - you really had the car working great all week, and were a deserving winner.

[Matt M.]

You make the bed you sleep in.....
I'm not siding with anyone here.....
If "Dave felt that he could have run in the 26's without any trouble" he should have done it in qualifying - that would have put him in front of Defer and next to Ari (maybe in front) and he would have had a better shot getting by..... From what Ari said he raced "By the book" as it were - Dave hitting him or ari chopping him is a race incident - no more, no less. AND
1st Place was decided when Mike showed up the WEEK previous to test (who else was there??) - I'll agree that Mike is faster than most (I've had to let him by enough..... ) But it would have been a different game without the test knowledge... (I say ban the testing!!!!!)
Plus with Lombardi and Hodges on their game, (and if Fahan had showed) it would have been a completly different grid... But like I said - you make the bed you sleep in..... Except for those damn little gremlins creeping around - causing trouble.....Little bastards....

I listened to the Webcast coverage of the race - sounded like an excellent race put on by all!! Congrats Mike!!

[mark defer]

from what i hear it was blatant blocking, but we'll all have to wait till dec 1st to make our own judgments. as far as testing the previous week, alot of us did. dave, ron, steve, dustin, and myself all spent at least a day on track the week before. one notable exception was bobby wilson, and it seems like he probably should have. as far as it being a different grid if so and so had showed up, they didn't so who cares? md

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: mark defer ]

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: mark defer ]

[Matt M.]

Point ??
Since when do you need a point to post around here??

[Daniel]

F1 Tom? Sounds more like nascar, maybe Busch series. Like everyone else, I can't wait to see the race but I'll have to wait until December 1. Maybe I can skip work to watch it or stay up all night to catch the replay , unles they pre-empt it to show another exciting installment of nascar Tech Talk .

[BrooksHall]

Daniel your not to far off I have heard from a very reliable source at Fox that this is the last Run-offs to be aired. Fox intends on dropping it in '02. For everyone who is going to watch the USGP on Sunday tune into Speedvisions re-broadcast. Fox is looking to dump F1 also. ABC is looking to pick it up. So if you don't want to listen to Paul "I have a face made for radio" Page for the '02 season make sure Speedvision is the station you tune into.

MH

[Daniel]

I had planned on skipping the ABC live show and watching the rebroadcast on Speedvision until I found out this past weekend that the Speedvision rebroadcast isn't until next month sometime. I think they said it would be on the 6th or 12th. Who wants to wait that long?

I am very depressed about the demise of Speedvision. Over the past six years or so I have probably watched Speedvision more than all other channels combined. I bought my DSS system just to get Speedvision. Now I turn it on and get "Automotive Product Showcase" even during peak hours. Since when is a "gut buster" or an "Ionic Breeze Air Freshener" an automotive product? When Fox bought the network they said they would turn it into nascar TV. It appears that their real intention is to kill the channel completely, or perhaps they think (know) they need to run-off the existing audience before they can make the transition. I have sent numerous e-mails to Speedvision asking what is going on but have never gotten any response. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone know how to start a network? (I'm not kidding about that)

[Tim Reed]

Daniel,

I have to agree with you, the only reason that I bought my DSS was because cable didn't carry Speedvision... Now, let's not give Speedvision too much credit, as you state most of their programming simply SUCKS, but at least we were able to continue to get live coverage of Formula One, after ESPN screwed that up... Other than that, I can't count the number of times that I flip to channel 607, and see "Planes of Fame" or another "Pleasure Boater" on... ugh! The first belongs on the History channel and the second belongs on OLN... maybe we should start our own network, and call it the "Road Racing Network" for cars and GP bikes only!!!

TDR

[BrooksHall]

Daniel I can tell you how to start a network but you could field a front running CART team or buy Manardi for the cost. I can not tell you how much money has been invested in Speedvision but it is in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I've worked in this industry for over ten years and you would not believe the money it takes to just put on a half hour show.

My friend at Fox works in network accusitions (they are the group that bought Speedvision) and she tells me that NASCAR tv is on it's way. I also got a DSS because my cable company does not carry Speedvision but I'll drop it if Speedvision drops F1. Networks are not completly stupid and my hope is that all the e-mails will have some effect, but the biggest thing they look at is ratings, and NASCAR has high ratings. Bernie also charges massive amounts of money for the broadcast rights to F1. Add all this up and it makes economic sense to add more NASCAR programing to Speedvisions schedual. I personally would rather watch a F500 regional than NASCAR but thats just my opinion.

Michael Hall

[dc]

You know, the funny thing is, we probably have enough talent, brains and background on this forum to put together a nice little TV network.

[robbie ferstl]

yeah doug, the only thing missing is the hundreds of millions of dollars... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Daniel]

I'm sure that a very large capital outlay would be needed to start a network like Speedvision but it can be done, the money can be raised. Remember, it hasn't been that long since Speedvision or, for that matter, Fox got started. Speedvision was successful at what it was doing and was expanding the line-up of original programing up until the Fox take over. The channel served a segment of the motorsports audience that wasn't being catered to by the "big 3" and in so doing they attracted high-end advertisers that probably will not stay with them now (Porsche, BMW, Jaguar, etc.). Speedvision is abandoning the niche market that fueled their success and either that hole will be quickly filled by someone who recognizes the opportunity or the market will go unserved until someone does. We need to remember that the take-over and sell-out of Speedvision is part of a marketing plan (conspiracy?) to control what type of motorsports we get to see in this country. Nascar and its partners want to control or eliminate any competition to their product. Fox could have started a nascar channel using assets they already owned far cheaper than what it took to buy Speedvision. But by purchasing Speedvision they got control over the contracts that network had to show sportscar racing, F1, motorcycles, etc. and now they control them until the contracts expire. Remember how a few months ago if you missed a race you could always find a replay within a few days? Try it now.

O.K., this is getting way off-topic for this thread and I could type on until my fingers bleed so I'm gonna stop now. Just remember, the audience is there, the advertisers are there, the venture capitalists are there. Anybody got a name?

[BrooksHall]

Daniel the initial outlay to start Speedvision was in the $60 million range. Roger Wernier who help start ESPN used the money from the sale of ESPN to start Speedvision. Just to give you an idea of the cost the 30 min show I work on has 150+ empoyees. The edit bay I work in cost over 1.5 million to purchase and this show has 4 of them, we also have 5 other edit bays at a cost of $600,000. The "Talent" is paid $1.2 mill a year, the money is insane.

I don't doubt that the ability to start a motorsports network is contained within this message board but believe me the money to start and maintain it would boggle your mind. The reason Speedvision sold part of it's shares to Fox to begin with was to stay alive. Fox will use it's leverage with it's Fox Sports Net stations to get Speedvision into more homes and turn it into the NASCAR network. Like I said this could change but it will take more than e-mails and letter writing to do it. Ratings are what matters and in the world of motorsports that means NASCAR.

MH

[ September 27, 2001: Message edited by: BrooksHall ]

[Steve Demeter]

to the original point of discussion,i was spectating at the end of the back straight at the runoffs. Little arie was correct in his statement that he took his one move, however, what he does not understand is that you take that one move BEFORE the car passing you is alongside. Dave demonstrated commendable self control for not decking little arie on the podium. i probably would have. additionally, if his last name wasn't luyendyk, he probably would have been disqualified.
i say he needs to get to the inbred racing league as soon as possible and out of the hair of clean hard racers.