2009 Aug FastTrack : FF Rule Change Proposals...

[-pru-]

Comments on the FF rules update? FF(it) already has it's own thread, but what about the "other" stuff?

Beyond the general clean up, a couple things stand out:

~ Bodywork "clarifications" in light of the (2007?) RunOffs issues
~ Aluminum Calipers?! Whoa. Someone clue me in a on the direct replacement for the LD19...

[dc]

for alloy calipers.

I need more time to digest the body rule changes. My brain can only handle so much content at once.

[Dave Gomberg]

Comments on the FF rules update? FF(it) already has it's own thread, but what about the "other" stuff?

Beyond the general clean up, a couple things stand out:

~ Bodywork "clarifications" in light of the (2007?) RunOffs issues
~ Aluminum Calipers?! Whoa. Someone clue me in a on the direct replacement for the LD19...

The brake caliper request (which was turned down) was for FC, not FF. But, LD19s are available. One example: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecId=1138

Dave

[Matthew DiRenzo]

I think -pru- and Doug simply misread the Sports 2000 aluminum caliper request as being part of the revised FF rules. It appears right at the tail end and could easily be seen that way w/a quick skim through the text.

[dc]

Ah yes, poorly formatted and easy to miss. My mistake.


Bummer.

[-pru-]

I think -pru- and Doug simply misread the Sports 2000 aluminum caliper request as being part of the revised FF rules. It appears right at the tail end and could easily be seen that way w/a quick skim through the text.

Indeed:

Item 4. Effective 1/1/10: Change S2000 section 9.1.9.B.7 as follows:

B. 7. Brakes

a. Only the following ferrous calipers are permitted: AP LD19, AP LD20, AP LD65, ICP-20L/R, ICP-65R, ICP-14F, and Girling 14F.

b. Aluminum alloy calipers of two-piece construction (split into two halves that are fastened together by bolts) having no more than 4 pistons and 2 brake pads are permitted. Spacers placed between caliper halves to adjust for rotor width are permitted.Maximum one caliper per wheel.

c. Brake rotors must be ferrous. Rotor hats / bells must be ferrous or aluminum alloy.

d. Brake system otherwise unrestricted.

[PCalhoun]

Ah yes, poorly formatted and easy to miss. My mistake.


Bummer.

This is NOT a bummer at all. There is no shortage of calipers, rebuild kits or pads in the market and they are fairly inexpensive in the world of performance braking. All it would do is drive-up the cost of particiaption, as it would be seen as a must have to reduce un-sprung weight.

As previously stated in other posts, rules stabilization is a key to the overall health of the class and it also protects your investment. If you can you call a modern day, non-vintage racecar an investment

[HazelNut]

This is NOT a bummer at all. There is no shortage of calipers, rebuild kits or pads in the market and they are fairly inexpensive in the world of performance braking. All it would do is drive-up the cost of particiaption, as it would be seen as a must have to reduce un-sprung weight.

As previously stated in other posts, rules stabilization is a key to the overall health of the class and it also protects your investment. If you can you call a modern day, non-vintage racecar an investment

did you notice who submitted the request? "Wright" I'm pretty sure that's Bob Wright aka one of the owners of the F2000 series aka the vibrant pro series that has averaged 25+ cars per weekend.

[R. Pare]

The caliper request for S2 has been going on and discussed for quite a while on the S2 forum.

They have a genuine need for expansion of the calipers available to them. For too long I was the only real source for new calipers, but that changed when I finally got the feedback that the caliper assembly became slightly unstable when pushed out to that width ( it would start vibrating) and decided to withdraw it from the market to be safe (though, even after 7 years of use, no one that I know of has ever had any failures). Unfortunately, the S2 market is so small that it just isn't worth it to me to create all new castings for only maybe 50 calipers a year.

FF and FC are another story all together - there is no need as yet.

[R. Pare]

Just bringing this to the top so that it does not get lost because of the Honda engine thread.

[mblanc]

As previously stated in other posts, rules stabilization is a key to the overall health of the class

Very well said Peter,

[R. Pare]

Bump again.

Not much activity on this one yet. Aren't there ANY questions?

[John Robinson II]

THe 2cm curvature rule is to much. After looking at most of the top cars ar RA, they are not running the undertray flat but turning the lip up on the back, effectively creating, although an inefficient one, a diffuser. But at least there is now something that says the undertay is now legal, just no sides or strakes. The other thing I find interesting is the undertray may extend past the cl of the rear axle, but only 16" wide (same as gearbox) and there is no limit on the curvature here. I am thinking about reattaching my undertray and building a cover for the bottom of the gearbox that goes to the catch bottle and rain light. It probably wont do anything other then piss more people off, because now they will have to build one.

Richard, I dont think this effects many people because I was the only one to bitch about this to the comp board. I was told this is a result of my letter after the 07 runoffs. Hope the Honda does not take this long to get approved.

John

[R. Pare]

My understanding is that the rule was written that way so as to not make any curent cars with gearbox surrounds illegal - Citations, Reynards, Swifts, etc.

The 2 cm rule was supposedly originally written as 1 cm - same as the old pro zetec rule that VDs were built to.

One of the problems with the old rule set is the vagueness as to what constituted a "diffuser". If I read it correctly, the new rules - if the proper pictures are attached - would not allow any turn up at the ends, and would actually give the Stewards something to hang their hats on for once. Under the old rules, the intent was to not allow any turn ups, but without any definition as to what constituted a "diffuser", the point at which any undersides shaping became illegal was anyones guess.

Mostly, the rules were rewritten so as to better clarify what everyone seemed to think that the rules meant, as well as to verify the direction that the Club seems to think they want.

[RussMcB]

The caliper request for S2 has been going on and discussed for quite a while on the S2 forum.

They have a genuine need for expansion of the calipers available to them. For too long I was the only real source for new calipers, but that changed when I finally got the feedback that the caliper assembly became slightly unstable when pushed out to that width ( it would start vibrating) and decided to withdraw it from the market to be safe (though, even after 7 years of use, no one that I know of has ever had any failures). Unfortunately, the S2 market is so small that it just isn't worth it to me to create all new castings for only maybe 50 calipers a year.

FF and FC are another story all together - there is no need as yet.

I always assumed S2 calipers were the same as FC. They're not?

[Matthew DiRenzo]

I always assumed S2 calipers were the same as FC. They're not?

The LD19/LD20 series calipers are not as common on S2s. Most modern S2s use the 4-piston LD65 caliper which AP discontinued. Either way, it's got very little to do with FC/FF.

[R. Pare]

S2's originally ran LD20s, but quite a few years ago they all switched to vented rotors, which required wider calipers.

[R. Pare]

Bump again.

[ric baribeault]

19/20's cheap in comparison to what?.....gold? the price has skyrocketed over the years and i have to stenuously disagree with availability. i watched my teammate rebuild his zetec after a $20k plus wreck. quess what was the hardest item by far to replace? aluminum caliphers much cheaper, lighter, and available. and i can quareentee you they will be legal in the f2000 series next year.....and if any one is realy paying attention there.....

[mblanc]

D.7.f & h
Seem very redundant.

[R. Pare]

AP's prices may have gone up, but our price for our calipers has risen only $10 since 1990.

[Dave Gomberg]

D.7.f & h
Seem very redundant.

You are correct. There was an editing glitch in the last four paragraphs of D.7. The paragraph between the current e and f should be f; the current f should be removed; the remaining two paragraphs should be g and h.

Dave