US FBMW Discontinued

[Chas Shaffer]

I have to think this should bring more young talent to the F2000 series next year!

http://www.racer.com/2009/07/formula...nued-for-2010/

[Rick Ross]

Interesting. I wonder if the Pro Atlantic series will be next? The fields this year have been pretty sad.

At least the Swift 016 Atlantic cars can find a home in SCCA. Not sure that BMW will want the Mygale FBMW cars to end up as club racers, although if someone wants to run in FS I don't know if BMW could stop them.

[ChuckU2]

Not sure that BMW will want the Mygale FBMW cars to end up as club racers, although if someone wants to run in FS I don't know if BMW could stop them.

There's always the Cash for Clunkers Program.

[Steve Demeter]

I , probably mistakenly, thought that BMW maintained ownership of the FBMW cars?

[Rick Ross]

Steve,

You may be correct. I remember being told by one of the FBMW teams years ago that BMW would only allow the cars to be on track at official FBMW tests and races. Perhaps they maintained this control thru ownership of the cars?

[cooleyjb]

I remember when Gelles racing was selling off it's inventory of stuff they had a LOT of FBMW stuff for sale and it included a car or two.

As for FBMW. Pro Mazda price and Skip Barber competition was my take on it. 275-350 for an entire season were the figures I'd heard. No wonder it is gone. I really like the cars but overall I can't imagine why anyone would have paid that much to run in the series.

[Lotus7]

I'm 99% sure the teams own the cars, but the catch will be getting engines once they need to be "freshened", as those were supplied directly by BMW directly to the teams. Given the stock nature though, parts could be sourced from BMW motorcycle dealers.
As well, the ECU had a "clock counter" in it to tell BMW when to pull the engine and replace it. Would be curious to know if there is some kind of disabler in it which after a certain time would render the car unraceable....

[Tom Sprecher]

From the article:

“Taken in combination with the – by comparison with Europe and Asia – vastly different motorsport infrastructures prevailing in the Americas, this led to the decision to cease promoting the series in future."

I wonder what they meant by this?

[RussMcB]

From the article:

“Taken in combination with the – by comparison with Europe and Asia – vastly different motorsport infrastructures prevailing in the Americas, this led to the decision to cease promoting the series in future."

I wonder what they meant by this?

A guess: America is much more interested in NASCAR type racing, and young drivers are much more likely to get noticed in a FBMW type series in Europe or Asia compared to here. The rest of the world is more interested in Gran Prix/F1 type racing than we are. BMW just was'nt getting the same bang for the buck here.

[SCCA2000]

.

[glenn cooper]

Man, wouldn't those Carbon tubbed cars make an excellent platform for a DSR?
GC

[Michael Rand]

For a guy, John Shaw aka SCCA2000, who has never entered one of the F2000 Championship Series 25 weekends held to date beginning in April of 2006, he seems to have a lot of opinions about a subject he is woefully uneducated on.
Hate towards your post ?
Not hate, but curiousity about how you come to be so opinionated about the series when you have no direct experience with it.
Maybe you can do a better job of it, you are certainly welcome to put up your checkbook and have at it, as apparently you think it is all simple.
Incredible that people with no experience seem to have lots of ideas about how to "improve" any/every thing.
So John, we are at Mid Ohio August 14-16 with 35 cars entered, why not make it 36 and then your opinions might be legitimate ?
I have always asked the other 2 partners to not engage in online public pissing matches but with this second post I simply could not restrain myself.
So in a sense John Shaw you "win", you successfully got under my skin and provoked me to respond, against my better judgement.
If you had any concept of what we are trying to accomplish and what we are determined to avoid you might understand.
On the other hand, you might see a need for something very different. Again, open your checkbook and make it happen.
I know I'll regret posting this reply but it's Monday am and what the hell, here we go, again.........

[DaveW]

i don't think that the series is run with enough professionalism to handle more young talent. They have proven time and time again that they feel obligated to stand up for the small club guys and can't handle the kind of racing that accompanies a bunch of young determined kids who don't want to parade around like an SCCA race.

Do I read this correctly that you would "run" a series where drivers could make any dumb move they want w/o penalty? That's a great way to trash a lot of cars quickly.

The officiating seems to be extremely poor, and look at the history of having young talent in the series. The top team from last year who had three talented race winners left the series, jordan taylor left the series after a few races, Noah Bystrom was reprimanded, Cole Morgan was on probation when he won the championship, Anders Krohn was penalized and put on probation and now it seems like every weekend there is some "complication" where the series can't figure out what to do for a week because they don't know how to handle things during the race and subsequently hand out a bunch of subjective rulings and penalties.

One of the main objectives is to give the "cross-over" racer the opportunity to run in a single-class pro series. IMO, it is doing exactly that. Keeping the drivers and teams in line with penalties individually evaluated and assessed is a big part of that, and, again, IMO, it has been done very well.

As the series has grown in size, the management of the series has unfortunately been unable to grow and improve with it. Don't get me wrong, the competition is good and there are many good drivers in the series and in fact i think the owners and most of the staff are great people. They just seem to be set on running a club caliber series and probably lack the ability to take it to the next level.

The desire "to take it to the next level" has been the death of many series - the only thing that keeps that sort of series going is BIG sponsorship, TV contracts, etc. How about the Champ Car series - even THAT was unsustainable.

Just my thoughts

From somewhat of an outsider, it is just frustrating to see this opportunity wasted...

F2000, how many club guys would come if there were no young rising stars... a lot less, its fun to race against the best... so maybe you should start thinking about accommodating what is in my opinion the most important group of drivers in the series.

i know there is going to be a lot of hate towards this post, mainly from the guys who have a beer with the series officials in the evening, and this is fine, just realize then that the series is just another club level series and will never become what it could be and used to be.

No hate here - just my take on things. Actually, for the cross-over racers, who comprise a majority of the entrants to the F2000 Championship Series, the presence of "young rising stars" is not a positive factor. On the other hand, competing against other talented drivers on a more or less equal footing is what it is all about.

This series is doing, IMO, exactly what it was intended to do, and doing it very well!

[Dave Stevens]

Dave W, spot on, and level headed, as usual in your response to the positions presented by SCCA2000. It sounds like his version of sanctioning a race series is akin to letting the inmates run the asylum. It's easy to be level headed sitting at the desk Monday morning, but get a little of that red mist flowing on a race weekend and things don't always work out too smoothly, especially without quality staffing, and fair rule enforcement in effect.

Mike, from my perspective as a relative outsider (granted with some ties to StClair Motorsports) it seems like everyone administering the F2000 Championship Series is doing one heck of a great job, given logistical challenges I cannot even begin to fathom! Hopefully, one of these races I'll have a chance to experience the weekend from the view of the cockpit. Hope to make it to Mid Ohio and enjoy the season finale as an interested spectator.

In the meantime, Go Matt Inge!!!!

Dave Stevens

[RobLav]

Dave,

Thanks for posting the quotes. Now we get to read the unsubstantiated comments from someone who has no experience with the series. He seems unable to recognize the different market and business models. Let him try his business model with his own money. Good luck... All blather.

If they ever let FB's in, I'd join. I'd love to see the series expand to include FB and FF.

[Larry]

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

Teddy Roosevelt

It's pretty easy to sit back and criticize, especially when you don't know anything about the subject!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[mark defer]

looks like someone got caught misbehaving by their parents and told to erase their post.

mark d

[jim morgan]

Now this is going to be fun!

Rand,

" I respectfully request that you reign in yourself. Get off of Apex Speed. This can only keep festering, and needs to be stopped now. You need to shut up, put your head down and do the job you are capable of doing."

Off to dinner more later.

[Purple Frog]

Was i confused?

I always thought it was the "little league parents" that caused all the trouble in the Series. LOL

Especially be careful of those from South Florida... ... particularly, to be specific, not to be confused with Fort Myers, nor Ft. Lauderdale... Lighthouse Point.

[jim morgan]

To briefly address the substance.

FBMW was an overpriced series that did not produce. At the same time I started Cole in SCCA Nationals at Sebring (Fahangate) I met several parents who had 15 year olds testing FBMW. They were told their kids had great promise and with a 2-3 year committment the combination of equipment,coaching and exposure would move their kid into the european ladder system. The only catch was if they were not prepared to spend $500,000-$1,000,000 they were wasting the TEAMS time.

I always found it interesting the only parents I met in FBMW had no racing background.

With regard to the slams on the F2000 series. We have run SCCA, Cooper Tires Zetec and Gold Cup, Star Mazda and the F2000. We had sucess in all but Star Mazda. Fully accepting the "sour grapes " responses to follow ,the Star Mazda officiating at the start of 2007 was the worst I have ever seen, resulted in several people leaving the series (we only had $ for partial anyway) and IMSA removing the officials mid season. That said I also considered the Star Mazda series to be poorly run. Despite collecting over $200,000 in fees and entrys they still had no website 4 races into the year and were publishing the prior years drivers list. Try and promote a one race sponsor deal when your not even listed as a series driver after 3 races.

The F2000 series is a race series it is not a vanity contest for rich kids. The problem with open wheel racing, and for that matter all car racing in the USA is there is no system to promote young talent. If I had unlimited resources( or if Uncle Mark would adopt him) I am sure Cole would still be racing and doing well. I don't, he isn't.

I don't know about other sanctions by the series, but the probation for Cole's involvement in (Soccergate) was reasonable. well measured and deserved, as was our DQ at the qualifying at Road Atlanta. The fact that the series is more low key than others does not negate its effectiveness.

Did it ever occur to you that the "young determined kids" and their teams are going to be the ones on the edge of the rules. As it should be if this is racing.

I would much rather have a series officiated by real racers who have an idea what's really going on than a bunch of bureaucrats out for a weekend power trip.

[Robins Ken]

Hey Mike Rand. Don't worry. The F2000 series fits nicely in today's open wheel picture. There will always be whiners. We have guys up here in FF1600 throwing toys out of the pram (and quitting) because they can't figure out how to get 2 FF's around a simple corner without tripping over themselves. Or their egos perhaps.

KR

[jattus]

Per SpeedTV.com on the opening VIR Race--- "A full field of 30 cars is expected to take the green for rounds one and two of the 12-round 2009 season, giving the F2000 Series the largest field in American open wheel racing."

I think the size of the entrants has grown since then. IRL struggles to field 20 cars, IndyLight 15ish, StarMazda ? (I haven''t seen a race this year), and the Atlantics have no where near 30 car fields.

Looks to me like the F2000 series must be doing something right.


Congrats.

Justin Smith

[mazda17]

Star Mazda series doing just fine with 28 entries at the first race and a high of 33 entries at the 3rd round. The races are live on HDNET instead of taped races on Speedtv.

[VehDyn]

I watched the HDNET coverage this weekend of Star mazda and Atlantics. The Mazda guys had a 23 car field for the Sat. race and 22 for the Sun. race. Lower than normal. The Altantics had 10 cars for both races. It was really sad to see. Between the economy and the utter confusion about what ladder to take after IRL and Champcar combined seems to have decimated the fields. Its a real shame.