125 shifter vs. CFC costs

[jebfour]

Thinking about changing kart classes to the ICC 125 class, but that's just a ton of money for a kart. Considering doing CFC instead. Here are my estimated costs for next year if I stay in a kart:

Chassis 3500
engine 3250
blueprint 500
D.A. system 450
Tires (ten sets) 1600
Top ends (ten sets) 1000
Track membership (for practice) 200
6 SKUSA reional entry fees 540
4 Road race entry fees 520
misc 1500

total 13060

WOuld it be possible for someone out there to put together some #'s like this for a competitive CFC?

Thanks a bunch,

jeb4

[size="1"][ May 11, 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: jeb4 ][/size]

[Aiken Racing]

Not including the cost of the car.

[BrooksHall]

Jeb I paid $7500.00 for my 89 Reynard with a ton of spares. It needed a rebuild on the motor and paint but other than that it was good to go. Purple Frog had a 84(?) for sale with a tow vehicle and pit bike and a bunch of spares for something like $13.5. It can easily be done and after 4 years of shifter kart racing I found my budget was very close to what I was spending in FF. I found shifter kart racing very exciting but it was more like MX than racing cars. I had more contact in one race than in a whole season of SCCA racing. I am not saying that racing an CFC would be cheaper but you would find that the cost will end up being very close.

My biggest problem with shifter kart racers is that there were to many guys who would buy a kart, go out and do a test day, then think they were ready to race. They thought of their karts as toys, toys that were capable of doing a 100mph+, and didn'have the ability to handle them. This caused a lot of problems I once had a guy spin in front of me at start finish (sixth gear flat) because someone else spun in turn one 150 feet in front of him. I hit the guy doing over 90mph and ripped the whole right front end off of my kart. He said he paniced when he saw the spin in one and locked his brakes and spun himself. I did over $1000.00 of damage to my kart (you would flip if you knew how much a rotor for a CRG is) and broke my thumb. Just something to think about before you make decision, everything might be a little cheaper in karting but you replace it much more often.

[jebfour]

Originally posted by BrooksHall:
My biggest problem with shifter kart racers is that there were to many guys who would buy a kart, go out and do a test day, then think they were ready to race. They thought of their karts as toys, toys that were capable of doing a 100mph+, and didn'have the ability to handle them.

This, and the constant contact, is another reason I'm considering switching. The last race I was at was just nuts (but luckily not in my class). Just trying to see if there will be a very large field, and if the checkbook can swing it.

[size="1"][ May 12, 2002, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: jeb4 ][/size]

[Purple Frog]

It appears that you budgeted for 10 races and a bunch of practice.

I am the King O' Cheap, and I don't think you can do a SCCA season that big for only $14K, and buy the infrastucture (car, trailer, tools) in the same year. You could buy the infrastructure and not race...

In the last 5 years of watching this scene, IMHO it takes at least $10K to get a CFC/CF ready to go. Then you need a trailer... if open, another $1K, if closed, at least $3K. And over the length of a season, it's safe to say that it averages out to $1K per weekend. I have kept 4 years of detailed records to prove the pain. And very fortunately I have finished my last 16 races with a whole car to take home, which definitely keeps the costs down.

Possibly the place to break in, and a place that is seeing some FC drivers migrate into is F500. I know it sounds like heresy, but the costs are considerably less, as is the sex appeal, but... $14K goes a long way in a F500 program. And much of the cart experience readily transfers. Infrastructure is less, engines are less, tires are less... and it's a national class.

If $14K is all you can reasonably afford... try a year of F500, all the while looking around the paddocks, then at the end of that year, make another decision.

[BrooksHall]

Frog he left off all of infrustructure for karting also. This stuff adds up almost as fast as it does for big cars. By the time I bought all the kart stands tire breakers etc it got real close. Like I said karting is less expensive than big cars but not by as much as you might think. It also became quality over quanity I race my Reynard less and enjoy it more than my shifter.

[Mark C. Ritter]

I'll let you know as I go along as I sold my '99 Trackmagic shifter and just bought a '84 Reynard yesterday. I think it's going to be more $$, but not all that much more and it's a REAL CAR! Roll hoops, 6 point harness and all!
I was feeling the same way about karting and the shifter. Loads of performamce and fun, but I was worried about getting hurt. Lots of crazy driving, 5 guys in the meat wagon at the years first race and two fatalities last year got me thinking it was time for a change. Well I made it, and it looks like a lot of fun.

[Purple Frog]

You made a good choice. CFC in the southeast is an enjoyable experience.

Welcome aboard! Is the Atlanta Region becoming the CFC Capitol of the World, or what?

OBTW, No CFC fatalities recently, unless you count marriages and checkbooks. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dave]

Originally posted by Mark C. Ritter:
I'll let you know as I go along as I sold my '99 Trackmagic shifter and just bought a '84 Reynard yesterday

I have an '84 too. Come over to my site and get your car added to the registry.

I'm typing up the factory manual for the 83/84 FF right now and should have it online soon.

Later, Dave

[butchcfc01]

welcome,welcome another REYNARD comes ALIVE!
very good choice of chassis!!
butchcfc01

[Dave]

I'm typing up the factory manual for the 83/84 FF right now and should have it online soon.
[/QB]

It's done. Check the technical page

[Bryan Pacelli]

I am looking for a 125 shifter or a rotax for any of you wanting to sell your kart.

[Marc Miller]

Bryan-

Does it have to be a turn-key kart? I have a few new and used rollers for sale... would be eay to find you a good deal on a moto or ICC package. Can't help you with the Rotax.

Marc Miller

[Mark C. Ritter]

Bryan,

It's a really buyers market now for karts. I sold (gave away) a very competitive trackmagic 125 package w/ trailer, spares and safety gear for $5700. Try E-bay as well as the karting sites.
BTW do you live near Hickman Street in Syosset? I lived there when I was about 6 and went to Split Rock elementary. I don't want to mention what year that was!

[Mark H]

Hey Yall,Mark Ritter came over to my shop before he bought his new Reynard[he lives 5mi. from me]to see if he liked the CFC car.He talked about how helpful this site was and that the CFC guys were a bunch he would fit in well with,and I know he will.
I think that is the reason he dumped carts and went with the wings & springs.Or maby it was the very impressive Purpel Frog 1 [PF-1]84 Reynard I bought from Mike?
Mark H

[Bryan Pacelli]

Mark - I live about 2 miles from Hickman - I am looking for a turn key kart with the stuff- I know it's a buyers market - I gave away my RF97 a few months ago - I don't have any time to put into a project - just looking to have some fun and keep in shape. I want to buy from someone I feel comforatable with - not ready for Ebay--- But will check it out.

Thanks

fc200016@aol.com

[Mark C. Ritter]

Bryan,

There is a local racer here that might be selling his kart. It's a Trackmagic Diablo 125 w/ a Barros built Cr 125. The kart is ex Memo Gidly-no joke. If it goes up for sale I'll let you know.

[ehellgren]

I have a inexpensive race car solution for you to get into....see below and it's race ready. Nothing needed to race other than a truck to pull it with and trailer, like mentioned above in another response for about $1000 you can get into a open trailer to get started. I opted for enclosed, that whey I can work on my jet ski or motorcycle in the garage and keep the car in the trailer protected. I'm also offering it here as a complete package.

89 Swift DB3 FC
Good FC, great CFC or one of the best FF1600

Log books w/39 races
full documentation on services, mods, etc.
Ivey engine with dyno sheets, 142 hp! with 4 races on rebuild - documented & papers
stainless steel header w/super trapp exh
rebuilt TDC pump
CDSII competition data installed with gforce sensor, throttle, axle, engine & spares with desktop PC & monitor, kybd, mouse & beacon w/battery
New Fast Forward axle kit - installed
2 noses, low down force high down force
spare rear body eng cover
down force under tray
2 spare uprights - new Frt w/new bearing & 1 rear
spare nose box
misc frt wing parts
spare complete exhaust system & header pipes parts
cockpit adjustable rear sway bar
adjustable F/R brake bias
spare radiator
4 gear sets - new
fox double adjust shocks
3 spare stk axles - 1 looks new
2 new Frt & Rear right side rocker arms w/bearings
almost every corner lower arms
oil cooler
spare battery
brake rotors and pads
spare set of jongblod rims with slicks mounted, also a set of unmounted Goodyear rains
misc items...spare oil filter, ingition parts, carb parts, etc.
all fluids changed, brakes, trans & engine/ oil filter
2 sets of used Hoosier's r45 & R35's (2 races & practice session on 45's)
3/26- just went through the whole car, everything checked, doesn't need anything .....had annual SCCA tech

willing to part out as roller

**Reduced $13.8k or $18.9k w/01 20' wells cargo trailer
see link below for pics....

http://photos.yahoo.com/ehellgren

eric Hellgren
ehellgren@yahoo.com
hm# 408-229-0439
purchased 09/01 used once for 2 test sessions & 1 race
NOTE*** this is a very easy car to drive, very forgiving and very stable. It is well suited to a tall driver, I'm 5"8" and have the pedals moved all the whey forward, there's 3 more adjustments
back (approx 3-4")and the seat has about 1 inch adjustment or just pull it and make your own

car located in San Jose, Calif. & can help with delivery

[size="1"][ May 20, 2002, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: ehellgren ][/size]

[Purple Frog]

CFC is the greatest form of racing. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] But, somehow I can't see Brian giving up a 97 VD for a 89 Swift.

[jebfour]

I've had it! This just looks and sounds like too much fun! After this season I think I'm going to try to get into a CFC. Plus it's my belief that a car with a roll bar is a little safer than going 100+ in a shifter kart with no roll bar, etc.

After looking at the various adds, it seems that it is no secret that a Van Dieman (sp?) is the car to have (judging by the price). Cars like the Swift listed above, which seems to be a well sorted out very nice car, don't seem to command the same price. Just how big is the difference between the VD and all of the other cars?

Also, what kind of school do I need to attend and what type of license do I need to race?

[size="1"][ May 21, 2002, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: jeb4 ][/size]

[Purple Frog]

Go to www.scca.org

Read a bunch.

Figure out a SCCA region closest to you.

Ask their competition chairman.

It is relatively easy. Sometimes we wonder if it shouldn't be a bit harder. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Matt M.]

If any kart "experts" want to have a good laugh - I picked up a used '99 125 Jolly Kart ready to go (OK stop laughing...and Yes, they are out of business...) Complete with spares for about $2700. I figured any form of racing where you can buy 4 tires for $100 bucks must be a good thing..... Once I found out what it costs to race in shifters - I realized I have the fastest "go get the mail" kart on the planet.

[FCRacer2000]

If some people started racing 1/4 midgets, they could spend $50k a year doing it. If someone raced FC, they could spend $50k a year doing it.
If you buy a shifter and race at your home track, not in the Skusa series, it won't cost you as much. You spend what you have to to go faster that the next guy. If that was not the case, I promise you in a guy was 4 seconds a lap faster that the next FC, the faster car would not try that hard to find ways to go faster. He wouldn't put stickers on as often, because he does not need to.

Speed cost money, if you race among people that put a lot of money in it...you will be forced to follow.

[BrooksHall]

The same holds true for FC. I only race in regionals and I only race at Cal Clubs home track in Buttonwillow...I am a "club racer". When I raced shifters I didn't do SKUSA I only raced at my local tracks as a "club racer". I didn't spend as much as the SKUSA guys did and I don't spend as much as F2000 pro or a national driver does on racing FC. The thing that got costly in shifters was the contact and upkeep of the kart. Kart racing is more like motocross than road racing. You and your equipment get beat up pretty bad. In So.Cal. you also had a lot of pro's showing up to "club" events to tune up for the SKUSA races so the competition was fierce. I don't care what you race, running up front cost $$$$$.

This debate really comes down to comprimise. With a finite amount of money I can only race 4 weekends (8 races) in my FC. With that same amount of money I raced twice a month in a shifter and practiced 2 or 3 times month. I miss my kart but the thrill that I get out of driving an FC is higher than I got out of my kart and the garage factor is off the scale. To me it came down to quality over quanity.

[size="1"][ May 22, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: BrooksHall ][/size]

[Skunk Butt]

Hi Matt M Member #52.....
You got a great buy ....1999 Jolly 125 Shifter!!!!
Jolly made an excellent product!!!
Competitive shifter kart....have owned one ....!!!
Came close to setting track record last year in a '97 Jolly.

Why spend $10,500 when you can be racing for $2,700.
With the money you saved you can stay at the best hotel near the track and afford $100 dinner for you and your love....and a fancy trailer/tow car as well...with the money you saved.

Stay away from SKUSA to begin with...find a regional kart track and test your skills.
Most guys get out of shifters because you do have some jerks with more money then ability that race these machines.....that can be dangerous to your health.

You got a great deal.....and if the motor is a 1999...you got a steal!!!
Take Care, Skunk

[Mark H]

A CFC in SeDIv must be '90 or older most VD's are newer. If you buy a VD 90-94 you can't run CFC and you will be to slow to run FC.So choose your posin,spend 10k for a old Reynard or Swift in the small pond or 30k for a newer VD and jump into the big pond?
Mark H