Anyone going to Roebling Road?

[Purple Frog]

Mrs Frog's FB pictures from today.
Coop was ahead at T3 on the start of Lap 1.
Coop also had the winning umbrella girl.

[JEREMY HILL]

chris, i think i could help you with your engine troubles, the oil in my car runs at 210, if your oil gets past 270 you might as well shut it off because it will blow up, i would be happy to tell you what i have done if you want to call me at 416-231-2007, regards, jeremy, btw i guess you should have bought my car!!

[Alan Oppel]

Greetings all,
As this class is so new, and the cars are relatively new we should expect to have to do our homework in order to go fast reliably. Turnkey race cars are not. One must strive for reliability, and work their mind in order to find speed. As always a good engineer is always key, and I would like to thank Joe Stimola for his well educated help. We found more speed, and driveability, and there is still more out there, as there is with any chassis/car. Fear not, we are still working hard and thinking about what is next...... Alan

[Ivinsea]

Is the RFR car dry-sump?

Is there a consensus that dry sump is essential for FB reliability?

[ghickman]

Is the RFR car dry-sump?

Is there a consensus that dry sump is essential for FB reliability?

I'm using wet sump with zero problems.

Suggest to all, do not run the engine at top rpm all the time.....run at least 500 rpm below redline....this came from a top DSR guy that has 4 Nat. Champs to his credit.

GH

[LFC]

The RFR is a dry sump and the motor is prepped by Quicksilver, right now we have done well over 2500 miles with no motor issues. Ralph spent a lot of time on the packaging of the motor and its systems, and the temps are spot on, if you notice the chimneys were not used over the weekend even though it was quite warm for the race.

[billwald]

Great photos by Mrs Frog!

Mrs Frog's FB pictures from today.
Coop was ahead at T3 on the start of Lap 1.
Coop also had the winning umbrella girl.

[RussMcB]

Yes, a big thank you for the pictures and race updates. I hope we get to hear a Coop Chronicles.

[mjaremko]

Guys,
As long as all the temps are in order the two things that kill the Suzuki are bumping the rev limiter and over reving on downshifts. I have run wet sump systems on Suzuki's and Yamahas for the last seven seasons with zero failures. On the Suzuki engines George Dean and I found that constant bumping of the rev limiter loosens the rod bolts over time and eventually allows the bearings to move out of postion. Over reving on downshifts also is an engine killer. Those that think the slipper clutch will save them from over revs on downshifts are wrong, all this does is beat the clutch plates up and put unwanted clutch material in the engines oil. These engines will last if used hard, just not abused.

Hope this helps.............

mj

[glenn cooper]

Granted it was not July 4th warm at Roebling, but it was well into the 70's.

My oil temp was 190's and water never went above 208 in the race.
1 VD water rad, and 1 VD water rad sized oil cooler.

Side pods of pre '98 VD's most likely need to be taller to fit larger coolers.

I now shift at about 12k, some times a scosh higher, depending on where in the corner I happen to be.
Mark's explanation above is probably what happened to my first engine at Barber last August.

I down shift w/o clutching, throttle bliping, matching revs, left foot braking.

Wet sumps seem pretty sorted out, and I ran one successfully, but there's no denying the HP gain of a dry sump. There's also no denying the increased weight and complexity of a drysump as well...

GC

[jonbaytos]

Just a few thoughts from the weekend at Roebling.

The Formula 1000 class = it is pretty clear to see that this thing is going to be big. Not sure where formula B came from, but we will continue to call it F 1000 if for nothing else marketing.I would hate to try and explain what FB is to someone new.

F 1000 is simple and carries two points that even my grandmother could understand.
It is kind of like Formula Continental,why, most people think of some cheap breakfast that you get in a cheap hotel.

The Engines = We at Cape/ Primus have been running MC powered formula cars since the winter of 2001, with the first VanDiemen RF 281 with a the Honda Blackbird. In that time we have only ever had one blow up that was totally self inflicted. For what it is worth our 2006 GSXR has close to 10,000 miles on it and has been abused about as much as you can. It is a Vic Fasola wet sump and we have put oil & filter and a clutch in it. The 281 runs at about 170 water and 190 oil on the hottest of days. We rev it to 11,000.
The new RFR 009 is the same it seems when really hot,[ make sense it was designed by the same design team ]we can take off 10 degrees with the install of the chimneys on the sidepods. It has a Quicksilver package of dry sump,electronics, and fuel system.We use Spectro 20w 50 Syn
We also rev it to 11,000 period.To us it has always been about cooling or the lack of.

I think that the Ralph Firman came up with a good idea about the engine. It is not a problem yet, but it will be and it would be much easier to put in place now than when the thing becomes more important to win,and this time is coming.
His idea is to stave off new engine use for at least a year. Example. You would not be able to fit a new 09 GSXR until Jan 2010. This will enable some time to get some in the market ,the price to stabelize,basically slow the R&D curve a bit for the sake of all concerned. It might even be worth looking at a longer cycle at the moment most have 07/08 GSXR but Quicksilver has the Honda going, and although I would not want discourage different options,I think that there is merit in looking for stability at least for a period when growth seems to be imminent.
Having run Pinto and Zetec,Duratec LD 200etc for 25 years,these things are a snap.No Starter problems, No battery issues,no driveshaft,no brake no gearbox ,no clutch slave,I purchased my new drive gear from VORTEX for 17.60 lees freight.

Tires Wheels: Anyone that knows me undertands that I have no use for an open tire rule,at the club level it seems just plain dumb.I also believe that like the above having different sizes is not in anyones best interest long term.I understand that it made sense for conversions but it will be easy to consider a change now instead of later.
We used a pretty conservative Cooper Tire this past weekend on the RFR 009 and Jared Beyer's 281. It is a very heavy case F3 and the compound seem to be able to lap without problem for 50-60 laps. This is a lot around Roebling. Jordan got down to a 2.9 on weds and I'm sure that there is a lot more to come. With our wheel,tire package and a prototype chassis that we ballasted to simulate a 200lb driver we weighed 1090 and still able to lap fast enough to win.
My point is as the new chassis come online there will enough to keep up with,let alone flash tires and wheels,and engines.


There will be a time when you will need to own the options and use them.
Enter wheels,why have a mag wheel? It does nothing but waste money that could be put to better use elsewhere. At best that I can tell if there was the need to change ,8 and 10's could be had used for as little as 700 to 900 a set. I would imagine that there are about 100 plus set's left over from the Cooper cars.This would be a straight changeout with the sale of your mags to the FC guys. We used a very heavy alloy whell from OZ it is about 1,200 for set of four. The Mag version is going to be about 1,800.
The cost of a new RFR is 38,000 less engine.That is a lot of racing car nothing comes close except another Formula 1000. Why litter it with costly add ons.

The point is the is nothing but growth for this formula,but what will serve growth and keep it stable. There can be a lot of lessons learned from DSR and FC on how to kill a good thing,it would seem silly to tread the same ground if the info is there. JB

[oh2winindy]

Lurker here.... someone correct me here, but I think it came from a man with a dream, a 96 VD, and a lot smarter brain than me (Sean O.). Great pictures Mrs. Froggy... man we miss you guys.

[Mike B]

The Formula 1000 class = it is pretty clear to see that this thing is going to be big. Not sure where formula B came from, but we will continue to call it F 1000 if for nothing else marketing.I would hate to try and explain what FB is to someone new.

F 1000 is simple and carries two points that even my grandmother could understand.
It is kind of like Formula Continental,why, most people think of some cheap breakfast that you get in a cheap hotel.

I'm in total agreement, which is why I'm calling it the F1000 National Championship Presented by George Dean Racing Engines and Taylor Race Engineering.
I just hate it when someone asks what FB stands for. All I can tell them is that someone either on the CRB or BOD has a twisted notion that the formula classes should all be named alphabetically based on performance so it's more like "the good old days", whatever that is.
They didn't ask me (or anyone, for that matter) but I would've liked to see F1K or even FK. At least then the "K" has some significance. I think Bernie might object if we called it F1...

[jonbaytos]

Roll on Mike. Please transfer Ralph's engine idea to the right thread as he had it about 6 months ago. I clearlt do not have the tech ability to do so.Thanks to Russ ,and the lot, it seems we are on the right track. I hope this does not evolve into the pissing match that have killed the others. JB

[Purple Frog]

Mrs frog took 4000+ shots. Might as well post a few more.

[teamfour]

"FB" stands for Formula Bike.

[Mark H]

I would think that Roebling is a downforce and not an aero slippy track so I can't imagine the airbox means crap here...it'd be mechanical and aero grip or driver being the limiting factor in any car.

God all you bastards make me jealous and sick of living here in the great white north...your racing and we have 6 inches of snow coming tomorrow.

Have fun guys...I am envious to no end.

I would have to disagree with the downforce classification of RR, with almost a mile long straight and no 1st gear turns this is one of the fastest tracks in the south? Don't come here down on power or with too much wing as all the hard work done out back will be wiped out by start/finish! In fact this place kinda only has 3 turns, 1-2, 4-5-6 and the bowl, with 3 & 9 being flat, if the car feels comfortable have no doubt your times will be off!
With the repave a few years back RH should be low with no real bad spots to scrub....except going into T-1 if you hit the brakes too hard!

I second the jealous statement, at least you have snow to blame? And I 3rd all of the statements made by Mr. Pr1mus, if anyone knows jr. formula car racing in North America these guys do, why do ya think that RFR went with them?

Good to hear from you Jamie, Im side lined with the same "hole in the block syndrome" that you are suffering from.... and i even have a dry sump?