Helmet - h.a.n.s. issues

[Purple Frog]

I started a new thread to talk more about what Phil Creighton brought up in the other thread.

I wear a HANS device. Thank Goodness. Amen. I have one of the T-Shirts you never want to get from the HANS folks.

When I got the HANS I had a fairly modern car. A '98 Tatuus. (i loved that car...RIP dear Kermit) The HANS worked great with fit, etc. I was wearing a Simpson Voyager helmet (95 Snell)

When I bought the 90 Reynard in '06 to replace the dearly departed Tatuus. i poured a seat, modified the belt attachments and went happily on my way.

In early '08 I had to change belts (way too early IMO, another story) and at the same time got a deal on a Bell M Pro Kevlar helmet. I didn't get to race much last year, but every time I did race I was never comfortable. The gaps between races, etc. kept me from really focusing on the issue. The helmet always seemed to be riding up. I thought it was aero lift. Then at the PRI show the HANS people suggested I had the tethers too short and the helmet was being pulled up the rear slope of the HANS. They said the motorcycle racers did a "motorcycle cut" on the bottom 1/2" of the rear of the helmet. Indocil Art said they did it often for the two wheelers. So I tried putting the tethers at stock length and trimming the rear of the helmet before Atlanta two weeks ago. Not much help. Even changed the seat during the second day... no help. Well. it did make me look goofy sitting way up in the car. I look goofy enough without that...

Forward two weeks to Roebling Road.

Saturday Mrs Frog was taking high resolution pictures of track action. The pictures showed the helmet was sitting on top of the belts. I sought out Jim Downing. He was super nice. We checked everything out. Jim Morgan saw that the adjusters on the belts were too high and the helmet would rest on them. If i looked down towards the gauges it raised the helmet.

So we reinstalled the belts, moving the adjusters down. A little better on Saturday afternoon, but not great. After looking at more pictures of the car at speed it was obvious the front bib of the helmet was resting on the hans...

I went to Mr. Downing. Jim said the lower half inch of the helmet is basically out the area that Snell tests. It's an "artistic area" (my words) that manufacturers can do what ever they want, and that it was safe to cut away. So... Saturday night i cut off about 1/2" on the front bib. Presto, zippo, abra-ka-dabra, Sunday the car was a brand new car. It's been two years since I was so comfortable in the car. And I can look down at the gauges without the eyehole moving up to my forhead. Way cool!

Turns out what I thought was aero lift was the fact that I check the gauges on long straights. The helmet lifted, i blamed it on the speed/aero lift deal. But it was the bib riding on the front of the HANS.

Sometimes it takes a village to solve my problems...

*** *** ***

As a side note. I fear those fancy green bars on the Defender may escalate that issue on some driver/helmet combinations. I say that even with one of my heros wearing a Defender, with Decals on the side of his red car.

[rickjohnson356]

Wow -field testing a product- and customer feedback

slight hijack, sorry

This service is not unusual from the HANS people. I recently sold my first HANS and had a question about the helmet mounts to send to the new owner. When I went to Downing's shop here in Atlanta, the VP/CFO assisted me because other folks hadn't arrived yet. He told me that, while the mounts I had were ok, that there was a new design that had a better inside piece (larger surface area washer). He gave me a set of the new mounts and new instruction sheet to give to the new owner, all without charge.

great work Froggy, this should help lots of us fellow racers. Really neat that you were able to get personal assistance from Mr HANS himself.

I am in the same boat with having to buy a new helmet this year. So, which helmets are out there that I won't have to customize like you did to your new one. I know that I would not want to modify a helmet without some kind of approval or waiver from the manufacturer.

I question that, heaven forbid (interesting phrase coming from an atheist) , if something happens when a driver is wearing a helmet that has been modified in this fashion. Would the manufacturer subsequently be able to deny any liability due to the fact that the helmet construction was modified by the user?

Anyway, glad to see that you have solved your seating/ new helmet issue

[cooleyjb]

From Snell

Cosmetic changes to certified headgear are permissible. Such changes are generally limited to marking or trimming the headgear with manufacturer approved paint or tape. Otherwise, modifications to certified headgear effectively create new configurations which shall not have the confidence and certification of the Foundation until properly evaluated. Manufacturers must not place the Foundation's certification label in any modified headgear without the Foundation’s written authorization.


The Foundation recommends that helmet owners not modify or contract someone else to modify their helmets. Any structural modification may adversely affect a helmet's protective capability. The Foundation’s certification and, quite likely, all manufacturer warranties apply to the headgear only in its as manufactured condition.

[Matt King]

If you take that literally, every one of use who has drilled holes in our helmet shell for a HANS anchor has voided the SNELL certification.

[cooleyjb]

If you take that literally, every one of use who has drilled holes in our helmet shell for a HANS anchor has voided the SNELL certification.

Yes, I agree. However I think there is a big difference between the holes which most of the helmet mfrs have added vs. trimming the lower edge of the helmet.

[hbennett]

Honestly, I'm not quite sure what all the legal jargon means in real life. Racing is a dangerous sport. Will someone be able to definitively prove a trimmed helmet was the reason someone broke their back or something. How many lawsuits against racing safety equipment manufacturer has really been won. I don't know but I would bet very few, if any.

With that being said, the positions we recommend the HANS anchors to be mounted are in a non Snell tested area. Snell has full knowledge of where the anchors mount. Also, Simpson offers a service call a "drag bike cut" in which they cut away the bottom 3/4" or so of material from the bottom of their helmets starting from each side a little infront of the halfway point. I don't know about other manufacturers but I have seen helmets from different manufacturers trimmed in this fashion.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[azjc]

I spent a lot of time modifying the cockpit of my Reynard so I'd not only fit but also be as safe as possible. One major thing was to wait until I had all the safety equipment in hand and then mocked everything up before finalizing the changes to the car. So far I've only driven the car around the neighborhood... all feels good. But as you noted, on track performance can sometimes offer a surprise or two.

One thing I will note is that once I'm in the car I really don't notice anything other then limited side to side rotation of my head from the defNder (even with it's sliding tethers). But I did notice that the defender did need to be seated correctly to give the clearance needed to the helmet.

Car hits the track on Friday, will have to wait 'till then to know if I setup every thing correctly.

I do find that the advances in safety equipment are many - I remember my first track car: Standard seat (pre 1968 safety reg), 3" lap belt, 2" "Y" shoulder harness, 2.5 lb Purple K extinguisher, one piece Nomex suit (without underwear), Bell Star, single layer Nomex / leather gloves, Nomex socks and leather shoes (Topsider's as I recall), and a basic roll bar with a cross brace!

[azjc]

...just an update:

Had the car out for the first time yesterday and I'm using the defNder. I did not notice any clearance issues with it and the bottom of my helmet, I thought I did but after doing a bit of checking at the end of the longest straightaway I discovered it was me not being used to being in an open cockpit and it was just the 100+ mph wind pushing my head back !

[Bob Coury]

Froggy:

When I got back in the sport in 05, I was driving a 97 VD. I purchased a HANS 30, then tried out a Bell GTX with lower lip on the chin. When I sat it the car, I noticed that when I tried to look at the gages, the front of the helmet would hit the HANS. Ended up with an Arai helmet and problem solved.