Hans Device Update

[defNder tech]

We got forwarded here from another forum to add some support to the defNder and answer questions you might have.

We are constantly updating our website and have now started a test page which will soon have our test data up in some or other format.

We will also have some detailed individual pics of the defNder up on the website in the next few days but will let you know.

I would like say hi to Mr Bennet from HANS as it is good to see a manufacturer participating in safety and product eduction. I have also met Mr Milgrom from HANS on another forum so once again good to see them around and welcoming us to the industry. i hope we can add as much valuble information to safety consious users out there as has been done to date.

Feel free to start a defNder thread if you have specific questions or we will answer through this thread otherwise email via our website.

Regards,

defNder tech.

[defNder tech]

As per the many requests we have recieved we have added some detailed individual pics to the front page of our website.

ENJOY!!!

[azjc]

As per the many requests we have recieved we have added some detailed individual pics to the front page of our website.

ENJOY!!!

So... when should we expect to actually be able to buy one?? Sold direct or thru dealers?? When will pricing will be set?

[defNder tech]

Sales of the defNDer team issue will start online via our website and later a rollout of dealers will happen after the PRI.

Our websales will begin latest on the opening day of the PRI and will be shipped direct from our warehouse in San Diego.

The pricing is $ 549.99 excluding taxes and shipping.

Regards,

defNder tech

[azjc]

Sales of the defNDer team issue will start online via our website and later a rollout of dealers will happen after the PRI.

Our websales will begin latest on the opening day of the PRI and will be shipped direct from our warehouse in San Diego.

The pricing is $ 549.99 excluding taxes and shipping.

Regards,

defNder tech

Cool, all the info I need... having been in an accident that had forces in all the planes other then frontal impact (I ended up shiny side down in the oposite direction I started after bounding off both sides and the top, decelerating from about 50mph in less then 20ft) your device seems to address most of the issues that caused me quite a bit of neck soft tissue damage.

[dereklola]

We will also have some detailed individual pics of the defNder up on the website in the next few days.

Having now looked at these pics I have to ask - will the defNder with its raised side rails work in cars like formula cars with reclined seating positions? Seems like they would almost certainly interfere with the bottom of the helmet for any normally proportioned driver. The pics seem to show an upright seating position and a long necked test dummy. Just a personal observation.

[Ted Idlof]

So, I happened to watch a bit of the Toyota Legends race at Laguna. Timo Glock won over guys like Danny Sullivan and Derek Bell in full race prepped Scions. I only saw one HANS being carried down the pit lane and lots of in car video where the drivers were not wearing any HNR devices. Most had helmets with HANS anchors but no HANS. What's up with that? They think the crush zones in a street car is going to keep them under the G threshold for severe injury? This is 2008 and anyone on track is expected to have a device.

[Joe Woodward]

After looking at the shoulder belt connection diagram shown earlier in this thread I decided to go and measure the attachment point seperation in my 99VD. Where the HANS diagram shows a maximum of three (3) inches, my car has fixed mounting points that are 8 inches apart!!! With this information would HANS recommend that their HNR not be used???
Joe

[TrackOut]

After looking at the shoulder belt connection diagram shown earlier in this thread I decided to go and measure the attachment point seperation in my 99VD. Where the HANS diagram shows a maximum of three (3) inches, my car has fixed mounting points that are 8 inches apart!!! With this information would HANS recommend that their HNR not be used???
Joe

Excellent heads up and observation. I subscribed to ApexSpeed to follow this thread as I was about to purchase a HANS. Based on the diagram, it seems that the 8" to the mounting bar would not be feasible in most sedans/coupe that are tracked at HPDE. Even in My NSX, with the seat pushed relatively to the back there will be more than 8," at least 12" and I am not one of the shorter drivers .... the 3" spread is doable since the harness is looped over the bar not attached to fixed mounts.

Perhaps defNder can also provide details of their mounting points/angles? According to the pics on their website, they too seem to be "testing" with distances similar to HANS mounting protocols.

Ted, could this explain why you did not see HNRs at the Toyota Legends Race or the roll cage/mounting points for the harness would have met these requirements?

[Daryl DeArman]

As much as I like another device more so than the HANS, either wear a different device or space your mounts closer together to accommodate the HANS. Personally I wouldn't wear a HANS with improperly spaced belts or you may end up not wearing your harnesses either.

[Joe Woodward]

As much as I like another device more so than the HANS, either wear a different device or space your mounts closer together to accommodate the HANS. Personally I wouldn't wear a HANS with improperly spaced belts or you may end up not wearing your harnesses either.

I appreciate your response but it is not helpful. First off the sholder harnesses in my Swift 014 are also 8 inches apart. THey are mounted into the plate that sits up against the fuel cell. You can't put the seat belt shoulder harness anchor points any closer. I have seen other drivers tie their shoulder harnesses together behind their heads to keep them closer together. Bad, bad approach as you will be loading each shoulder harness straps differentially in a frontal crash and with far less support each can be torn. You know sort of like tareing a telephone book in half by bending and pulling at the tare point.

I do not wear a HANS as it contacts my helmet and pushes the eyeport in the helmet up and blocks my view. But I do wear the R3 as there is no helmet contact, but it also has the same issue as the HANS with respect to where the sholder belts contact the head and neck restraint.

So what is the answer, and it is not, do not race the car.
Joe

[dereklola]

I do not wear a HANS as it contacts my helmet and pushes the eyeport in the helmet up and blocks my view.
Joe

Joe
Two solutions -
- 1 - find a helmet with more clearance under the chin, they do exist - or -
- 2 - cut the bottom (1/2"?) off your current helmet to give the same effect - this does not effect rest of helmet performance.

In doing any of this do remember that the shoulder belt buckles need to remain on the end 2" or so of the HANS 'legs'.

I've never seen any of this in writing but I have had it confirmed by people who are most definitely 'in the business'.

Derek

[Daryl DeArman]

I appreciate your response but it is not helpful...so what is the answer, and it is not, do not race the car.
Joe

Not helpful, or not what you want to hear?

[defNder tech]

The green "stabiliser bar section" of the team issue has been designed so that the overall height to the bottom of the helmet lip is not much more than other devices out there.

Of course there could be a situation where your neck is short and your helmet lip is long leaving minimal clearance between the helmet lip and the stabiliser bar. We have not come across this combination yet though.

With regards to the belt separation behind the seat it is not a simple and straight forward answer. The simple answer is keep the separation to the standard of 3inches. With the defNder, the harness flares reduce the effect the harness separation has on its performance, keeping the harness on the device at all times.

Other variables to consider other than the 3inches is:

1. Seat used - does it offer shoulder support to stop the upper torso from being displaced sideways.
2. Shoulder Harness rearward mounting - how far behind the seat is the shoulder harness mounted

Also during an impact the adjuster of a shoulder harness can move up the torso in some cases about 6-8inches. Whether you are wearing a HNR or not you will not want to have the adjuster near your neck when you are being thrown around in the cockpit. If you look at the position of the adjsuters on the defNder you will see the placement setup. The postion of the stabiliser bar above the shoulder harness and adjuster also protects you from this pottential injury with the adjuster. The stabiliser bar now keeps the adjuster away from your neck and face areas.

Regards,

defNder tech

[Ted Idlof]

You can't put the seat belt shoulder harness anchor points any closer. I have seen other drivers tie their shoulder harnesses together behind their heads to keep them closer together. Bad, bad approach as you will be loading each shoulder harness straps differentially in a frontal crash and with far less support each can be torn.

Prior to modifying my belt anchor points, I used 2 climbing carbiners linked together to bring my belts closer together between the original 8" wide attachment points and the HANS. The belts slide freely and act just as independently as they normally would. I calc'd what the "spreading" forces would be to know the carbiners were strong enough in the requisite 70 g crash. Two different scrutineers looked at that arrangement and had no comment during 2 annual techs.

[defNder tech]

Good idea you came up with to keep the harness separation consistent. One thing to keep in mind is to not allow the belts to bunch whatever you run them through. When webbing bunches its strength is reduced a fair amount due to the uneven stretching of the fibres.

We have a device called the HarnessPRO which we will release at the PRI which is specifically designed to keep the belt separation constant. It is a patented design that stops the harness from bunching while keeping the separation a constant 3inches. It would be fitted to the shoulder harness and be located just behind the HNR.

Regards,

defNder tech

[defNder tech]

We have added the SFI certification info to our TESTING page of the website.

Please refresh if you do not see the testing info on the TESTING page.

Regards,

defNder tech

[stainlesssteel08]

Does anyone have any experience with the Leat-Brace

[Ricky Racer]

Stainless,
My son will be wearing a Leatt Brace in karting for next season and I was considering it for myself. But, when checking the website, it states that the device is not compatible with shoulder harnesses.

[Ted Idlof]

Does anyone have any experience with the Leat-Brace

I posted my personal observation of an FM buddy using the Leatt Moto-R at Trackpedia.
http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/sho...5658#post35658

Do a search if you haven't already and you'll find posts here and on Trackpedia as recent as a few months ago that believe the availability of the Moto-R was not good and some speculation on why. Haven't heard anything lately. Maybe the guys coming back from PRI will have an update on Leatt.

Come ot think of it, I should make a call to my FM buddy as he has some connection to Leatt.

Edit: I thought the issue with the Moto-R delivery was all models, but maybe my memory is fuzzy on that one. It appears the 20 deg model is actually available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LEATT...ayphotohosting

http://www.extrememotorsports.com.au...att-brace.html

http://www.extrememotorsports.com.au...att-brace.html

Well, I'll stop there as the PRI reports should be flowing in tomorrow., err, uhh.......make that next weekend.