FF40th News Update #2: Car Eligibility

[Steve B]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
FF40-07-02

Contacts:
Mike Rand
(860)364-5252
michaelrand@sbcglobal.net
Steve Beeler
(313)441-4460 x1141
sbeeler@pmcorp.com

FF40th News Update #2: Car Eligibility
December 15, 2007

This month's FF40th News Update, the second in a planned series of monthly discussions and informational releases, will focus on car eligibility As the FF40th is being run in conjunction with Milwaukee Region’s Cat National, the SCCA General Competition Rules (GCR) and Formula Category Specifications (FCS) are the foundation for car eligibility. However, there will be three distinct Formula Ford race groups (Formula Ford, Club Ford, and Historic Ford) and each race group has its own car eligibility requirements.

Formula Ford

The Formula Ford race group will be run under an SCCA National sanction. Therefore, all cars entered as Formula Fords must be in compliance with all GCR, FCS safety and performance specifications pertaining to Formula Ford. All Formula Fords must have an SCCA logbook and current annual tech. Any GCR legal tire may be used in Formula Ford.

Club Ford

The Club Ford race group will be a restricted regional. Therefore, all Club Fords must meet the same GCR and FCS requirements as Formula Ford including SCCA logbooks and current annual techs. Club Fords must meet the following additional eligibility requirements:

SCCA GCR manufacturer’s model year 1981 and earlier cars with the spring/shock mechanism of at least one axle outboard of the chassis or model year 1981 or later cars having the spring/shock mechanisms outboard on both axles are eligible. A suspension is “outboard” if two conditions are met: (1) the upper mount of the spring/shock mechanism is equal or further in distance from the centerline of the chassis than the upper suspension mounting point and (2) the lower spring/shock mounting point is further outboard than the upper spring/shock mount and attaches directly to either the hub carrier or one or both lower suspension links. In this definition, trailing arms and radius rods are not considered to be suspension links.

Club Fords should be raced as nearly as possible to their model’s original specifications except as noted below. The chassis may not be modified or updated except to improve driver safety. Suspension may not be modified or updated except that stronger materials may be used as long as they match the dimensions of the original piece. Example: the hub carrier may be a weldment instead of a casting as long as the original suspension link and spring/shock mounting points are the same. GCR legal shocks and springs and GCR legal engine components (flywheel, aluminum head, crank, pistons, etc) are not restricted in Club Formula Ford.

One of the following “hard” restricted performance tires must be used during all dry practice, qualifying, and race sessions: Hoosier R60 or R60CD compound slick, Goodyear 600 compound slick, American Racer 133 compound slick , Dunlop CR82 or CR84 9092 compound tread, and Sumitomo HTR-200 series tread. Any GCR legal tire may be used during wet practice, qualifying, and race sessions.

Historic Ford

Monoposto Racing rules and regulations will define specifications for the Historic Ford class. A complete list of pre-1973 commercially constructed cars eligible for the Historic Ford race is published on the Monoposto Racing web site: http://www.monoposto.com/ All Historic Ford cars must have a log book issued by the SCCA or a Vintage Motorsport Council (VMC) club noted with a current Annual Tech inspection.

Multiple Entries

Cars may be entered in more than one race group subject to these car eligibility requirements. In fact, the schedule is being set up to accommodate multiple entries with a minimum of one hour between the three race groups. Club Fords can race “up” in Formula Ford. Historic Ford cars with SCCA logbooks and current annual techs can race “up” in both Club Ford and Formula Ford…that would be a lot of seat time!

Note 1: Additional Club Ford restricted performance tires may be added. Please contact the event organizers if you are racing a Club Ford on a tire that is not listed.

Note 2: This information is believed to be correct but the event supps will be the final word on car eligibility.

[Steve B]

Also bumped to the top to answer questions re: car eligibility. If you have a "tweener" car, plan on racing it in the FF national race.

Steve Beeler, de facto EWC commissioner & FF40th co-chairman
Lola T-540 HU44
home: (734)416-8865 sbeeler@wowway.com
office: (313)441-4460 x1141 sbeeler@pmcorp.com

[Garey Guzman]

SCCA GCR manufacturer’s model year 1981 and earlier cars with the spring/shock mechanism of at least one axle outboard of the chassis or model year 1981 or later cars having the spring/shock mechanisms outboard on both axles are eligible.

From the rules, it looks like a 1981 vehicle can either have outboard on one end or both?

[Roux]

My car is post 1981, in fact 1982 and has only one end outboard. It has always (last ten years) been considered a CF or NCF in the northeast. It is a Royale RP31 in original suspension configuration. I have checked a few times and no-one thinks of it as a tweener. Not in the southeast either. So where did the double outboard jive come from for post '81? I don't think such a car exists, except maybe a Crossle 45. Did they make those in 82/83??? Didn't the VD go inboard up front about the same time as my Royale?

[Brian]

Guess I no longer have to worry about running in this event. Ain't SCCA, ain't gonna be
SCCA, cars meet historic, CASC and International rules for their year of manufacture, but don't have SCCA log books and aren't going to go to SCCA tech inspection.

Brian

[flat broke]

Sorry to go on about this when you have taken the time to list a comprehensive set of regs.

To Brians point: How difficult is it to get a SCCA membership for that weekend? Is there a CF requirement of an SCCA logbook and or SCCA certification for tech?

To Mr. Roux's point: Is there time to address the CF 81 cut off. Convention seems to be pre 84 , outboard at one end.

It is a long haul for most of us. Just need to know we can play when we get there.

Tony

[Gary_T]

From what I can see, FF and CF require an SCCA logbook and annual tech. Vintage requires an SCCA/VMC club logbook and annual tech.

So, who/where/how do I go about getting an SCCA logbook/annual tech. Will my '83 Reynard require the newer 'updates' to be legal since I don't have an SCCA log/tech?

Gary

[Brian]

Gary, from reading past posts on the subject you'll need all updates to current (not manufactured year) specification, homologation, and then an annual tech after that, and a SCCA membership to start it all off.

Probably roll bars, forward braces, forward dash roll bar plus braces to the front bulkhead, intrusion protection, fuel cell current (pictures for the homologation application), nose box.

Brian

[Gary_T]

Hmmm...

So, I'll see you at Mosport then? it's only a few hours further for me.

That stuff isn't likely to happen to my car in the near future (not that it's a bad idea, just more time/$$), so I guess I either skip the 40th, or find a legal CF car.

Too bad, that's gonna make it tough for our group to get down there.

Gary

[thewarehouse]

Road America.

2 full days.

Three run groups with only one race each?

And no place for a "modern" regional car??

N0t much of a birthday party if you ask me....

[Bruce Lindstrand]

Don't rule out a regional FF race running with the CFF's. We're meeting Friday night at RA to discuss the race format. This item is on my list of topics for discussion.

Bruce Lindstand
Vice RE, Milwaukee Region SCCA

[Steve B]

Clearly the objective is for the FF40th as inclusive as possible. To that end, Mike Rand and I posted driver licensing and car eligibility requirements 19 months before the event. Until the supps are published, everything is subject to change. Here are some thought starters...

1) We should (and can) refine the CFF car and tire rules to be as inclusive as possible. As you know, I tried to do that in this year's EWC but found no takers. Steve Roux's Royale certainly belongs in CFF. Any suggestions on how to include more cars without upsetting CFF's competitive balance? Have we missed any spec tires?

(2) As Bruce Lindstrand noted above, a "regional" FF race could be added to the CFF restricted regional race group. No national license holders and a split start? No cross-overs into the FF race?

(3) We can add more licenses for the restricted regional as we find more that are acceptable. I am not an expert in this area. I exchanged very helpful e-mails on this topic with Gary Tholl. Thank you, Gary.

(4) We cannot provide any relief on SCCA log books and licensing requirements. These requirements are no surprise and should not prevent a serious racer from participating given 19 months (now 10) to get ready.

Steve Beeler, de facto EWC commissioner & FF40th co-chairman
Lola T-540 HU44
home: (734)416-8865 sbeeler@wowway.com
office: (313)441-4460 x1141 sbeeler@pmcorp.com

[flat broke]

Thanks Steve,

1) I like the idea of keeping CFF at least one end outboard if you allow up to 84. OFFC allows the inboard cars such as the 83-84 Reynard in their CFF class. They have a real aero advantage at a fast track like Mosport. RA could be the same story.

2) A regional FF race makes sense, could be one of your biggest grids.

3) CASC license is ok for CFF, sounds good.

4) Got it right now, sorry if I added any confusion.



Tony

1980 Crossle 40f (ex Ganassi)
1977 Ferret (no SCCA log book yet)

[Roux]

Canadian guys,

I think there is an upside to getting the SCCA logbook. If you go to sell your car years from now, you have a much bigger pool of buyers to sell to. yes I know your dollar is worth more than ours etc.... but there are a lot of us and we spend money on our toys.

If you are SCCA legal you get to come to the Fun-One regional at the Glen in Mid September and run in a pretty big field of FF/CF and it is a wonderful track. I admit you have some great venues too, but this is a beauty.

To top it off, the car ends up a bit safer too. I have updated both of my Royales as needed and the expense was not that bad. Once amortized over the years that you own the car it is minor compared to tires and engine rebuilds. And then that thing about selling it comes back to roost when you try to sell.

Give it one more consideration. it would be a shame not to see some of you come on down over an upgrade/logbook.

By the way, thanks for opening up your events so effortlessly to us when we visited Montreal. My big nightmare was having to remove one EGT sensor as they rules in Quebec only allow one EGT and I had two.

By the way, if anyone can work some magic at SCCA HQ then please get started. i just wonder if they could reverse some of the safety related stuff and still stay insured

Steve

[Brian Graham]

I ran dozens of nationals from Sebring to Watkins Glen with my cars and their Canadian log books, in FF to FA (Customers) and never had any issues. Lets not make this a scary venture for people before it even begins. The club ford rules with one end having to be outboard makes the most sense, our Ontario club ford rules really caters to the 82-84 cars. However the "tweener" class that has come out of the EWC sounds like a good way to get some more cars out. Having said that, remember that is is supposed to be a celebration of FF and the purpose is to have fun and get as many examples of the best and worst!? FF's on track possible. We plan to come with our cars and run on our series tires and not concern ourselves with anything other than the sheer enjoyment of the cars, the people and what is arguably the best track in the Country. See you all there, Brian Graham.

[Denney Bridges]

Would someone please clarify the format? When the 40th anniversary event was first announced, I thought that it was to be a "stand alone " FF weekend (no other classes to run), has that changed?

[Tim Webb]

Will the FF race be a sacntioned National. As a poorly funded National racer who needs his four finsihed to qualify for the Runoffs, I'd hate to make the 13 hour pull and not be able to count the race as one of my National (assuming I finish).

Thanks

Tim Webb
Swift DB-6

[Michael Rand]

Mike Rand here answering the most recent 2 questions.

Regarding format, no, the format has never changed, the event was never going to be a stand alone FF only deal, track time and asphalt are way to expensive for anything like that these days. Milwaukee Region has enthusiastically become very real pertners in this undertaking, as has Road America, to the extant of scheduling seperate practice, qualifying and race sessions for all three FF1600 groups, Vintage Ford, Club Ford [now likely to incorporate a Regional level FF group as well] and the Feature FF race.
They are running another race group for the wings-n-things and sportsracers while FV and F500 also have their own group. The 3 FF1600 groups will be FF1600 cars only.

Now to question 2, yes, emphatically, the Feature race is a fully sanctioned SCCA National, explaining the requirement for GCR legal cars and a National License for that race.

[Gary_T]

I spoke with Kevin Y. of the SCCA, and he found the GCR reg that states all SCCA events shall recognize a Canadian ASN logbook. So, no need to homologate our cars. Also, spoke to the division (I believe) licence guy, and we should be able to get a waiver with our Canadian races recognized to get a licence (don't need the ASN level A).

So, we should see you guys down there with a trailer full of CDN cars!

Gary

[Michael Rand]

That is excellent information Gary, thanks and we look forward to a strong Canadian contingent..........

[Gary_T]

That is excellent information Gary, thanks and we look forward to a strong Canadian beer contingent..........

Well, we can supply that, but after this last weekend, I'm making NO promises about the cars!

Gary

[Jonathan Hirst]

Concurrent to Gary_T talking to SCCA, I received a similar response from Kevin for the same question.

Unfortunately there is a two tiered logbook system here in Ontario. ASN is the Canadian National sanctioning body and issue logbooks at Pro events ( Montreal Grand Prix, etc.).

The majority of racers in Ontario use a CASC logbook. The CASC is sanctioned by the ASN, yet it facilitates all the licensing and event coordination within the province. Sort of a strange set up unique to Ontario and Quebec - the reasons behind this are too long to get into here. I THINK the rest of Canada runs all its races/licensing directly through ASN and would already have a ASN logbook.

Although SCCA will accept a CASC Region license (for SCCA Regional races) or ASN National licenses, they will not accept a CASC logbook.

So, I will let you know what I have to do in order to get an ASN logbook issued for my Club Ford and will report back here. Might as well keep it in the thread for future reference.

Jonathan

[Brian]

Jon, one of my cars (RF85) ran in the old Pro series and has an ASN log book, as well as a current CASC book. FWIW.

Brian

[Brian Graham]

Jonathan, my cars had CASC logbooks and were all accepted at Nationals by SCCA. Brian.

[Jonathan Hirst]

The response from ASN Canada FIA was that they have no provision for issuing logbooks and that CASC's affiliate status with them should be sufficient.

Brian G - thanks for that info, you are the second person now that has told me that SCCA accepts CASC logbooks at National events.

I forwarded ASN's email to Kevin. Feeling better bout making the trek to RA though given what I have heard so far.

Jonathan

[Roland V. Johnson]

In trying to put together a few Club Fords for this event a couple of questions arise. Most of these cars have HSR or VARA log books. Many do not have the currently SCCA required front roll hoops. How is this going to be handled? Many of the Southern California Club Ford drivers do not have SCCA licenses. They have VARA or HSR licenses.

[Steve B]

Roland:

Mike Rand and I are working with our friends at Milwaukee Region on definitive answers to all of these questions. Through regular conference calls, we are making excellent progress. Details will be available shortly...watch this space.

Steve Beeler, de facto EWC commissioner + FF40th co-chairman
Lola T-540 HU44
home: (734)416-8865 sbeeler@wowway.com
office: (313)441-4460 x1141 sbeeler@pmcorp.com

[T644HU05]

Roland, are you putting together group transport? If so, how many cars can you travel with and are you full?

Let's see...

Car: 1984 Lola T644 (ex-C.T. Hancock 1990 3-wins 1-track record with SCCA Logbooks)
Tires: American Racer
Driver: HSR

This equals a possible "regional race" on the track with the CFF group?

And, just in case no one else happened to notice it....EAA Airventure starts July 27th. Race cars then cool airplanes. Life just doesn't get any better!

Kurt

[todcp]

Michael,
Hope you can fit in a Regional FF race group so my 83 Reynard is a bit more competitive.
I have written to SCCA about upgrading my license to National just in case I have to run in the National Race.

Tod

[Steve B]

Tod:

I can tell you that the restricted regional at the FF40th will be open to Club Fords and "regional" Formula Fords.

As soon as the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed, there will be a flood of information re: schedule, licensing, log books, chassis eligibiility, and so forth. By firming up these details now, everyone will have time to get ready for next July.

Steve Beeler, de facto EWC commissioner + FF40th co-chairman
Lola T-540 HU44
home: (734)416-8865 sbeeler@wowway.com
office: (313)441-4460 x1141 sbeeler@pmcorp.com

[Roland V. Johnson]

Thank you Steve, I'll be waiting for your response. When you are towing that far it takes as much advance planning as you can get. Kurt, I'm not sure how many are going yet. I'll talk to you at Phoenx.

[AJWALKER]

Mike Rand, over on another thread you mention some expected car counts in the 50-60 range for CF. What is the max grid size for the track? Is there a plan to limit entries to a certian number of cars and multi class entries ? Or will there be elimination heats and a final race group?
ajw

[Garey Guzman]

.... What is the max grid size for the track? ....

At the June Sprints, there were 88 SRFs that started the race.

According to the GCR, they can start 25 cars per mile of track length, meaning we'd be able to have a field of 100 cars at Road America.

[Bill Bonow]

The GCR also gives the Division Executive Steward the ability to go 10% over the 25 cars per mile rules, so now we're up to 110. FWIW, in 1983 at the 20th Birthday of FV (held at Road America), the CS broke that rule and started 112 FV's for the feature race. I'd sure like to see Formula Ford challenge that record at the 40th

[AJWALKER]

Thanks for the input. I'm not use to such a large track and gridding that many cars. I knew their was rules on car counts but hadn't gotten out to the trailer to find my GCR.