Reynard Overheating

[rickb99]

Our SF89 Reynard has an over heating problem at Portland International.

It was an 88 degree day and (while leading the race) water temps went to 115 C after 5 or 6 laps and the engine developed a slight miss. Jeff backed off to let it cool but he couldn't get it to drop below 110 C. So he finished the race short shifting and limiting peak RPM to get a finish.

At our last event at Portland, he noticed the temps went up (similar ambient air in the mid 80's. We put some heat shield around the temp senor which is located just about 1" from the uncoated exhaust header. I also noticed there's a gap of about 2" or more between the back of the radiators and the side panel of the cockpit. I built an air dam (out of layers of duct tape) inside ONE side pod (it was a rush job when I found it) to prevent air from just blowing by the radiator between it and the cockpit panel. I felt that would build up higher pressures on the front of the radiator forcing more air through it. That seemed to solve the problem for the rest of that weekend.

When he came off the track yesterday, I looked inside that pod and the tape had pretty much blown lose thereby allowing a LOT of air to just flow by the front of the radiator (again).

Is this a good idea?:
I'm thinking we should build some hard panels out of thin aluminum to do a better job and allow higher pressures to build up on the radiator front?

ALSO:
These side pods have small outward curved vertical "fins" at the leading edge of the side pod air exits. I'm guessing their function is to develop a low pressure area to help pull air through the radiator. I haven't seen these fins in any other photos of Reynards and, our other set of side pods do not have them. Are they a good thing or should we remove them?

The headers on this car are not coated and with the fully enclosed tail, we're really building up a LOT of heat in the engine compartment. I'm thinking if we do some of the other stuff above but still have the problem on hot days, have him run without the tail enclosure. Give up some aero slippery to better vent the engine compartment.

1.
Our cooling mix is 90% distilled water and the proper mix of Water Wetter.
2.
We've run another track in between the 2 Portland races with equally long straights. The tape air dam was still in place but it was probably a 78 degree day. No problems with heat there.

I think it is an air flow problem through the rad's or, the uncoated headers that are causing this.

The car came from the SARRC area and I know you guys run in some hot humid weather. Any other Reynards suffer from this down there and is there a common 'fix'??

[Purple Frog]

You just knew i would jump in....

I took the day off today to work on the Reynard. I sense cooler days are coming, it's time to prepare for racing season in the Southland (October thru May).

Today I:

1. installed the head that i had shipped out to Rollin Butler to crack check and check out. With a new head gasket.

2. installed the two new aluminum radiators that I had Keith Averill contract out to one of his sources in Michigan.

3. inspected the water pump and reinstalled it.

4. installed the Averill "Ultra-Reynard" sidepods that I have always used, filling any and all air leaks with high density foam rubber.

5. used water and water wetter (no anti freeze this time)

6. replaced a few hoses in the process.

7. hung the car from the ceiling and got the engine at a 45 degree angle, front end high, to burp the head. The new rads have air bleeders and i purged them also.

All this to cure a previously uncurable overheating problem...

I did notice that i could turn the water pump pulley by hand and the belt would slide around the crank pulley. This engine uses the 'poly V' belt system. It is not a cog belt. The grooves do run in the same direction as the belt. This is my "Runoffs" motor that came in the late great '98 Tatuus and has always had this belt arrangement, and certainly didn't overheat in the Tatuus. Just for grins I did order this afternoon a new belt from BAT (Dayco 190J, $27.00).

MY other spare engines all have cog belts on the water pump. But I'm not stripping them yet.

I too have that same swirl pot, and have already built a heat shield between it and the headers out of reflective aluminum.

Time will tell if i have cured the overheating issue.

To answer your question... yes it is important to block around the rads inside the cowling so that all air entering the front exits through the rads. The little wicker on the outside is another way to improve through-radiator airflow.

[FC63F]

Taking a cue from PF - we are about at the end of the race season up here in Michigan - last year I ran very hot but not quite overheating. This year - ambient temps ranged fromt the low 70's to the low 90's degrees F and water temps stayed stable at 90-95 degrees C - which is 10-20 degrees better than last year - and using PF's list - here is what we did

1. Installed a fresh Jay Ivey 2.0 liter motor with the new pistons etc - overhauled over the winter - runs great - I love to install his motors and then push the start button - ready to rock and no further tuning required - very strong - much better than last years 16 week end version

2. Installed 2 new Averill aluminium radiators and saved about 8-10 pounds over the copper radiators previously installed.

3. Waterpump was inspected and rebuilt by Jay - good to go here

4. Re-installed the ultra side pods and replaced the heavy and probably ineffective ducting with some simple Averill designed air flow managers (secret) and used medium density foam to seal off the pod and radiator. Also have foam padding inside the car inbetween the tubes - prior owner had a field day but I get almost no heat transfer to me - as opposed to the Crossle 63F I owned before the Reynard.

5. Always used Water Wetter according to the specifications

6. Replaced all the coolent hoses with the blue hose from Mr Averill (there is a trend here)

7. Didn't go the rout of hanging the car - but I did burp the radiators - that did the trick - no bubles or hot spots

The key here is that it takes all these small changes to make everything work properly - This was a bit of a winter project - but well worth the effort.

Regards

David Keep

[rickb99]

You just knew i would jump in....

I hoped you would after seeing your comment in another thread

2. installed the two new aluminum radiators that I had Keith Averill contract out to one of his sources in Michigan.

We do have aluminum rads (I think). Car is at other house but will check.

4. installed the Averill "Ultra-Reynard" sidepods that I have always used, filling any and all air leaks with high density foam rubber.

Sounds like my 1/2 arsed air dam with the duct tape was on the right track. What do you hold the foam in with? Just tape it, panduit strap it glue it?

I think I want to keep the hole that the pipes come through opened to allow air flow into the engine compartment there too. Good or bad idea?

7. hung the car from the ceiling and got the engine at a 45 degree angle, front end high, to burp the head. The new rads have air bleeders and i purged them also.

WHAT! Never heard anything about that or seen it mentioned on the Forum before! I guess we could use the level out of the camber gauge to measure the 45 degree angle

No air bleeds on the radiators. But at the end of every run, we aren't seeing a build up of air space in the filler neck either. However, we will look into adding bleeders over the winter.

In the mean time, maybe we could tip the back end up at 45 degree angle to bleed the radiators.

I did notice that i could turn the water pump pulley by hand and the belt would slide around the crank pulley. This engine uses the 'poly V' belt system. It is not a cog belt. The grooves do run in the same direction as the belt. This is my "Runoffs" motor that came in the late great '98 Tatuus and has always had this belt arrangement, and certainly didn't overheat in the Tatuus. Just for grins I did order this afternoon a new belt from BAT (Dayco 190J, $27.00).

MY other spare engines all have cog belts on the water pump. But I'm not stripping them yet.

Not being able to look at the moment, I'm pretty sure we have the smooth pulley too. Will check the belt tension for sure.

I too have that same swirl pot, and have already built a heat shield between it and the headers out of reflective aluminum.

Although not a stand off shield, I think the fabric backed heat shielding material is doing a pretty good job there. However, it has a visible 'hot spot on it from header heat That isn't a good sign.

The little wicker on the outside is another way to improve through-radiator airflow.

Okay on that. Figured they were the 'improved' version.

Taking a cue from PF - we are about at the end of the race season up here in Michigan - last year I ran very hot but not quite overheating. This year - ambient temps ranged fromt the low 70's to the low 90's degrees F and water temps stayed stable at 90-95 degrees C - which is 10-20 degrees better than last year - and using PF's list - here is what we did

2. Installed 2 new Averill aluminium radiators and saved about 8-10 pounds over the copper radiators previously installed. David Keep

Hmm hope we DO have aluminum rads. We could use 10 pounds less weight. We are over min weight by about 60 Lbs at the moment with Jeff at about 185 and HE isn't over weight.

4. Re-installed the ultra side pods and replaced the heavy and probably ineffective ducting with some simple Averill designed air flow managers (secret) and used medium density foam to seal off the pod and radiator.

Also have foam padding inside the car inbetween the tubes - prior owner had a field day but I get almost no heat transfer to me. David Keep

"SECRET" air flow managers? I don't think we have those

So, both of you are saying I was sorta headed in the right direction with the goofy tape job. Good, will improve on that.

The foam pads between the tubes (ours don't run inside the cockpit. But I'm thinking and that's bad. Some kind of insulating material between the pipes that are almost in contact carrying the hot to the rads and the cool back to the engine. Is that what you're saying?

6. Replaced all the coolent hoses with the blue hose from Mr Averill (there is a trend here)David Keep

Yes, we've got the 'blue hoses'.

THANKS GUYS. Lots of good ideas above. I don't think we'll have a heat issue in our last race of the year at Pacific on the 27th and 28th. It's usually cooler there then Portland (but you never know). We can impliment some of the above before our winter rebuild.

[jabro1000]

From a drivers perspective, how hard do you guys push when temps get this high. Can one really push these engines at 115 C to 120 C for a prolonged period of time (say a 30 minute race) and expect them to have any longevity. I am going to be more of a rebuild every season or two guy rather than every couple of races, so protecting the motor to some extent is a consideration for me. I'm sure this is a stupid question, but the engine really started to hesitate and felt like it was missing on me when temps got up there, am I doing damage at that point or is it just harmless pre-detonation? Is it smart to back off and keep things around 100 C, or am I OK to keep pushing when it is above boiling temperatures? Once again, possibly a stupid question, but you hear different things from different people. Although finishing the race is great and all, it is a bummer to have to let people you are faster than by because you are not sure how far you can reasonably push your equipment.

[Purple Frog]

OK I'll give my thoughts, probably worth less than $.02.

First to answer 1000's question. It matters if you are thinking like the driver or like the Owner. In my last race the temperture gauge rapped around to about 40 pounds of pressure on the oil pressure gauge (it's one of those dual function gauges). If you extrapolate that out it would probably be 300+ F. I hammered on, shifting at redline on every shift. I am the driver when in the car.

A bit of background on that weekend... I had already had the steel rads cleaned and tested, i had blocked all the air leaks, built scoops on the inlets... basically chased the problem a bunch. And the car was running like a top. I was not losing any water during rounds. I was reading the plugs, no sign of overheating in the chambers. Once the race started I convinced myself it was some kind of guage aberation. The heck with it.

As an owner I probably would have started short-shifting and then parked at the half-way point to get credit for a finish.

I had a long discussion with Eric at QS about what heat can do. It's not too good for keeping the cylinders round. But probably the single big fear is that the valve seats will come loose. That is not a good thing. Read: expensive. There is also some chance that you will warp a head or blow a head gasket from the heat and pressure. I was seeing no signs of that.

The laugher is that on the cool down lap I finally developed a pinhole leak in one of the water lines. It was so small it was very difficult to find. I could hear it and smell it, but it took a while in impound to spot it. Eric joked with me that with my 24 pound cap the hoses were probably blown up like balloons.

OK, what you never want as a driver is to have the coolant joining you in the cockpit. (That's something like Rule #4 in racing.) If you don't believe me ask Chuck Cecil. It's not a good thing. Many say that it is worse than flames in the cockpit.

With that said the area where the lines leave the radiators and go into the engine compartment is partioned off from the cockpit by an tight well fitting aluminum panel that is inside the cockpit starting next to the fuel cell and coming forward. In this car I have never felt the radiant heat of the rads coming through to my legs. I did feel that in my old '84.

Now on to Rick' s (Dad's)questions...

Sounds like what I 1/2 arsed did with the duct tape. What do you hold the foam in with? Just tape it, panduit strap it glue it?

I think I want to keep the hole that the pipes come through opened to allow air flow into the engine compartment there too. Good or bad idea?

The gaps I have between my rads and inside panels etc. are mostly less that 1/4". ( .2500" for Dr. Pare types ) So dense foam rubber and a putty knife allows me to pack enough in to block air flow, I have to note here that my "Ultra" sidepods carry the rads in a separate aluminum box. The sidepods just cover the assembly. In a pinch one could run without the fiberglass sidepods. I just concentrate on making sure all the upstream air has to go through the rads. I don't worry about the holes where the lines go through the chassis into the engine compartment, except for that aforementioned "blast panel".

WHAT! Never heard anything about that or seen it mentioned on the Forum before! I guess we could use the level out of the camber gauge to measure the 45 degree angle

No air bleeds on the radiators. But at the end of every run, we aren't seeing a build up of air space in the filler neck either. However, we will look into adding bleeders over the winter.

In the mean time, maybe we could tip the back end up at 45 degree angle to bleed the radiators.

The best place to change coolant in a Reynard is in the paddock at Road Atlanta. The ramps into and out of pit lane from the paddock are great for pitching the car at extreme angles.

None other than Steve Knapp taught me about lifting the front extremely to get any air bubbles out of the head. Years go, when I didn't have bleeder on rads, i would put the front real low on a ramp to help burp the rads. But, you can also take the covers off and loosen the top radiator hose clamp and get a lot of the air out, even more effective on a steep hill. My steel rads had bleeder hoses that ran all the way back to the swirl pot. Real cool (the car first belonged to a well funded team). The new rads unfortunately did not come with big enough bleeder bungs for those lines. They just have bleeders in the top rear. So I drilled an access hole through the top of the rad mounting frame to get to the bleeder with a long allen wrench. I plan on drilling through the fiberglass cover also, so that I don't have to go through the pain of taking the covers off to burp the rads. I'm thinking some sort of expensive wine corks will work to plug those holes for proper air flow.

Important note: I forgot in earlier posts to check ignition timing at full advance. I set it dead on the mark that Mr. Butler wants it on. Timing problems can cause heat. So check your timing! That may explain why Jr. doesn't think it running right.

I can't afford wizzy blue hoses. So I buy hoses at NAPA. Last time I called Keith he didn't have that weird little 45 bend that changes sizes in the middle for the gap between the water pump and the "Y". I fabed one by walking through the back of NAPA until I found a matching bend, then cut that hose down to the length, and inserted a reducer in the end that needed to be small.

If your car is weihing 1250, my guess would be that it is the bodywork. Probably 18 layers of paint and all kinds of old patches weighing it down.

[azjc]

As a new Reynard 88SF owner I'm kind of courious (especial since the car now resides in Arizona)... Do any of you use an oil cooler?

[Purple Frog]

I ran an '88 a few years ago with a small oil cooler sticking out behind the left rad. Worked sweet.

My current '89/'90 doesn't have an oil cooler.

Multiple opinions as to whether they are needed on good FC engines. Many of the modern (post 95) use real trick water/oil heat exchangers. Hard to plumb into a Reynard.

As long as you don't have an oil temp gauge, you don't need a cooler.


On the weight loss program I ditched oil coolers, long radio antenna harnesses, rad bleeder hoses, etc...

[rickb99]

FROG SAID:

If you extrapolate that out it would probably be 300+ F.

You must have brave pills more powerful then our brave pills.

My steel rads had bleeder hoses that ran all the way back to the swirl pot. Real cool (the car first belonged to a well funded team). The new rads unfortunately did not come with big enough

Ahh, so in that configuration any air in the radiator while the car is running just bubbles up onto the swirl pot? Sort of like a 'full time' radiator bleeder?

Eric joked with me that with my 24 pound cap the hoses were probably blown up like balloons.

I'm pretty sure the cap on that car is 14#. Been meaning to buy an 18# but I haven't. I was thinking earlier, wonder at what temp/pressure the cap would blow? The system didn't lose any water at 115 C.

None other than Steve Knapp taught me about lifting the front extremely to get any air bubbles out of the head.

We do have a ceiling hoist to do this.. Thanks, this is the FIRST TIME I've ever seen that posted on Apex.

FROG:
We don't have that style side pod. Ours have the large opening at the rear. Which is why having the big gap between the radiator and the cockpit panel causes a MASSIVE loss of high pressure on the radiator front. Then again, it needs the rear opening because the radiators are much longer then the small opening in the side of the pod.

WILL check the timing. We don't have a dyno sheet NOR do we know for sure who the last engine rebuilder was. So, if it's in the 38 to 40 degree advanced range, we'll have to assume it's okay for now. I thought about timing last night. But, considering we've only seen this at Portland (both 85 F days +) I suspect the timing is okay.. but still will check.

AZJC:

Yes, having grown up in Tucson, I can appreciate what you're facing. All of the above should be paid close attention too.

We don't have an oil cooler (nor do I think we really need one up here in the Northwest). But it's something you should watch.

Frog's little cooler plumb'd right off the pump looks pretty nifty. It's about the only way on the Reynard to get one in there that would do any good.

I've been looking around the stores for a real LONG STEM high temp thermometer but haven't found one. It has to reach down in that reservoir 10" to hit oil. Or, we need an oil temp sensor/gauge. The thermometer would be cheaper

[Purple Frog]

Rick,

38 degrees BTDC

My '84 had the sidepods your car has. Very good for cooling. A bit more drag at speed (if one can believe Keith...).

I'd bet your cooling problems would vanish if you could find some ol' time radiator shop to rod out those radiators you have. It was the best $80 I ever spent on my '84.

Jr said it was running rough. Make sure the air correction jets didn't pick up some trash. Inspect your fuel filter.

Could it be too lean? Probably not.

[rickb99]

I'd bet your cooling problems would vanish if you could find some ol' time radiator shop to rod out those radiators you have. It was the best $80 I ever spent on my '84.

Okay, another over the Winter bill to pay.

Could it be too lean? Probably not.

Maybe, The car (previous owner) was running places like Road Atlanta and Roebling. I looked up the elevations of one of those tracks and I think it was like 600 feet above sea level. That's just about what Pacific Raceway and Portland are. Perhaps slightly lower but not more then 200 feet.

Maybe I'll call Ivey and see if he would give me recommended jets. We have a few spares.

Jeff said it was running rough.

Other then during the over heat, He has commented on it seeming to "bog" or "hesitate" under acceleration once in a while. Might be dirty carb parts or the filter (which has been replaced once). But who knows what was loose on the cell after it sat for a few years.

I think the plan will be a "quicky" patch to work on the over heating in case we run into a hot day in 2 weeks for our last race and change the fuel filter. Then, address ALL OF THE ABOVE over the winter.

HUGE help as always. Thanks so much.

[Larry]

The earlier Reynards didn't have oil coolers, but the temps in England don't compare with Arizona. The later Reynards did have a small oil cooler. I always had an oil cooler on my Reynards, as I'm more concerned about oil temp than water.

The Reynard design has worked well for years. If you have a cooling problem, it's probably (1) air leaking through the side pod instead of going through the rad, or (2) rads have a restricted flow and are due for replacement.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[kea]

If all the basics are correct (timing, radiator cap seals, etc.), than I would put my money on #2.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc.

[rickb99]

If all the basics are correct (timing, radiator cap seals, etc.), than I would put my money on #2.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc.

At the moment, I can see where we have some problems with the 'basics' of the air pressure front on the radiators. Up here, there's no telling what the ambient air will be on the 27th and 28th with our weather. Could be a 50 degree day or an 87 degree day. Hopefully the high side so we can get some meaningful data to address the issue over the winter.

Regardless, we'll do the radiator rod out or replace, depending. Those buggers are just too hard to deal with during the season bolted into the pods.

[azjc]

The earlier Reynards didn't have oil coolers, but the temps in England don't compare with Arizona. The later Reynards did have a small oil cooler. I always had an oil cooler on my Reynards, as I'm more concerned about oil temp than water.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

Where was the cooler mounted on the later ones? Where have you mounted them? I'm kind of looking at the area above the trans behind the oil reservoir.

John

[jabro1000]

My SF90 has one mounted in the left sidepod behind the radiator; unfortunately that car is at my dad's, so I can't get a picture, but he can probably chime in as to the size specifics and exact mounting method.

[rickb99]

WHAT!! It does??

Wait a minute let me get the flashlight.

By Geehimminy it DOES!

It'a 8.75 inches long (which includes 1" on each end of mounting tabs that could be cut off ((unless you use them)) ) by 3" high. It's mounted with the long length vertical in the pod just inside the back edge.

Looks very similar (if not identical) to the unit on Frog's car and retained with a 'strap' to a bracket mounted on the cockpit panel. I suspect the cooler, bracket and strap were all purchased from the same source.

I cannot see a manufacturers name on it. To look further would require removing the pod and you know what that involves But sombody must know the source for these.

If I had to guess, it's the 8.75 x 2.0 thick x 3" high one here:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product

If you cannot find the proper strap type mount, it would not be hard to fabricate a way to mount it using the tabs.

It also has a thermal test strip on it showing the highest temp reached was 265 degrees F.

AZ:

Where was the cooler mounted on the later ones? Where have you mounted them? I'm kind of looking at the area above the trans behind the oil reservoir.
John

From the little experience we've had with the car, I find that the engine compartment gets pretty hot even on a 78 degree day. With the tail enclosure, there's really poor ventilation of the compartment. Besides getting the cooler under the body work I don't think you'd get a lot of air flow through it.

As I mentioned above, I was tempted on occasion to remove the rear clam shell to get some extra air flow. You may very well have to do that in Arizona (hopefully, you don't have the one piece tail/wing, i.e. Whale Tail ((like our SF90 does)) ).

I'd suggest mounting it like Frog's and ours is.

One thing I'm SURE is causing our high temps in the SF89 compartment is uncoated headers on that car. I'd urge you (if they aren't already) to invest in a good header coating. I can feel a MAJOR reduction in the heat coming off the coated headers in the SF90 when I just start it in the garage to keep the fluids moving.

P.S.
Thermal sleeves on the spark plug wires are a good thing.

[kea]

I find it interesting, upon closer inspection of the photo from Puprle Frog, he still has that little oil cooler mounted. When we started using the Ultra-Reynard side pods radiator housings in the early 90's, we found that this oil cooler was no longer needed, The standard radiators worked better than they had in the old covers.
If you have the old style, and want to upgrade, then let me know.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc.

[rickb99]

Keith,

Would like to upgrade the pods. But we have two sets of the standard so it's kind of hard to justify right now (at least till we start running the F2000 Series

As the car is destined for a frame up check and belly rebond this winter, I'm sure we are going to find plenty of stuff that needs work and things to buy.

On the other hand, although we will strip it down, I'm going to "suggest" to Jeff that he spend very little money (basic needs only) on it till we see how the election turns out and a few signs of stability coming back to the economy. Plus, congress taking SERIOUS action to get the gas prices down (which won't happen with the idiotic bill the House passed this week). What morons.

[kea]

"What Morons"
That's been my general opinion for years. They should be made to hold a "real job" every so often, to really understand what laws are needed and where money should (or shouldn't) be spent.
Keith

[azjc]

WHAT!! It does??

Wait a minute let me get the flashlight.

By Geehimminy it DOES!

It'a 8.75 inches long (which includes 1" on each end of mounting tabs that could be cut off ((unless you use them)) ) by 3" high. It's mounted with the long length vertical in the pod just inside the back edge.

AZ:

From the little experience we've had with the car, I find that the engine compartment gets pretty hot even on a 78 degree day. With the tail enclosure, there's really poor ventilation of the compartment. Besides getting the cooler under the body work I don't think you'd get a lot of air flow through it.

As I mentioned above, I was tempted on occasion to remove the rear clam shell to get some extra air flow. You may very well have to do that in Arizona (hopefully, you don't have the one piece tail/wing, i.e. Whale Tail ((like our SF90 does)) ).

I'd suggest mounting it like Frog's and ours is.

One thing I'm SURE is causing our high temps in the SF89 compartment is uncoated headers on that car. I'd urge you (if they aren't already) to invest in a good header coating. I can feel a MAJOR reduction in the heat coming off the coated headers in the SF90 when I just start it in the garage to keep the fluids moving.

P.S.
Thermal sleeves on the spark plug wires are a good thing.

My "new" (at least to me!) car has the newer side pods... no room for a cooler there. Bodywork stops right about at the rear sway bar (no rear clam shell), so I do have an area that could be used for a cooler that has (or could have) some air flow. Also have an updated (?) rear wing that sits behind the bodywork quite a bit.

Header heat... car has newer wires, they are already toast. I have an idea using some high temp silicone wires with BMW connectors (stood up to thermal reactor heat). Also looking at containing / deflecting the exhaust header heat.

..and spending some time checking the car out this week this is just the beginning of my questions!!

John

[bryancohnracing]

For what its worth, I installed bleeders in the top of both rads. I used steel valve stems with the standard air bleed in place. Worked great to make sure all air was bled from the system.

Here's how:
Drill hole in top of radiator near outlet. (yes, this took large amounts of bravery as I did it on a Friday night at a race!) Make sure the hole is the same size as the threaded portion of the stem.
Using safety wire, fish stem through open end of top red inlet into place in hole. Make sure rubber seal is in place on the inside. I was able to do this the on the first try, so it can't be that hard!
Install retaining nut on valve stem, then air bleed. Install rad hose and fill with water, bleed as needed.

Both my customer 80SF (FC car) and my personal 88FF (FFcar) had this mod done. It cured cooling problems on both cars.

As a side note, this was described to me over the phone by Brian Williams. He had done it on my 88FF and I simply copied it.

Repeat on the other side.

[reisertracing]

Purple Frog,

Missed seeing you this year, many problems with the car mostly the driver, planning on the ARRC with the Reynard, Thanks for the wonderful advice, my reynard is ass down, nose up, never had a heating problem, but why not preventive maintain it.

Do you run an after market diffuser?, Any set-up info appreciated for Road Atlanta, I am prcticing my Denny Hamlin book of driving and running Road Atlanta on my Forgq X-Box 360 in a real time sedan.

Keith, I will be in touch for some work this winter on said Reynard, Damn best car I ever drove!
Johnny R.

[rickb99]

My "new" (at least to me!) car has the newer side pods... no room for a cooler there. Bodywork stops right about at the rear sway bar (no rear clam shell), so I do have an area that could be used for a cooler that has (or could have) some air flow. Also have an updated (?) rear wing that sits behind the bodywork quite a bit.John

So, you have the wing that mounts directly off the Hewland... that's a good thing. It's probably the Averill wing.

Yes, if you do not have the clam shell back end (I think those two parts are available form Pennon) then you might/could get some air flow through an oil cooler mounted above the transaxle. But, it would be DANG warm air from the engine compartment.
NOTE:
I'm pretty sure no rear clam will help with cooling too.

With the newer side pods (assuming they are like Frog's) you could install just like his. Ours would look EXACTLY like his if we had the newer pods.

[azjc]

So, you have the wing that mounts directly off the Hewland... that's a good thing. It's probably the Averill wing.

Yes, if you do not have the clam shell back end (I think those two parts are available form Pennon) then you might/could get some air flow through an oil cooler mounted above the transaxle. But, it would be DANG warm air from the engine compartment.
NOTE:
I'm pretty sure no rear clam will help with cooling too.

With the newer side pods (assuming they are like Frog's) you could install just like his. Ours would look EXACTLY like his if we had the newer pods.

Yes, wing mounts directly to the rear of trans, looks just like the one on Averill's web site. Needs a bit of work / re-skinning though. I do have a long skinny piece of body work that would go above the trans, too long to use without cutting (would hit the wing mount)

There is an opening in the top of the bodywork just in front of the flange for the rear clam shell, could use it to duct air to a cooler. But a water to oil cooler may be a better option... I'll wait & see what the oil temp is running at before doing anything. I come from sedans where a 1.6L BMW engine reved in the mid to high 8,000's and developed 180hp, 2.0L a bit less RPM and around 225hp, used a wet sump and oil cooling was a must.

Side pods are just like Frog's, cooler mounted so exposed would make me a bit nervous though. When I spoke to Keith about the car before buying it he thought it had most of the latest body work (even light weight?). I also have most of the "old" bodywork and 3 different front wing / noses and what looks like the original rear wing. Still going through and figuring out what I have...

[kea]

Johnny,
Drive the crap out of the Reynard and have fun with it at the ARRC.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc.

[Richard Learned]

FWIW, experienced the same overheating problems on my '88. Went to Keith's narrow pods and it helped, sealed them off and it helped some more. Finally ran some crude "airflow in" vs. "airflow out" tests and found exiting air was coming from the rear 1/2 of the radiator so we fabricated the "splitter" as shown to better direct the flow through the entire radiator. The temps came down to manageable levels (200-205 range) even in 95+ ambient we ran in July. All other variables untouched, i.e. timing, jets etc etc etc.

Richard L

[kea]

Richard,
Thanks for the information and photo.
Keith

[rickb99]

Very interesting, Richard.

And wow. That pod sure is narrower then the stock ones. Put those on our 'wish list'

For now, blocking off the back gap and maybe checking the air flow distribution on ours may solve the problem for next season. Then perhaps we can spring for narrow pods.

Looks like we're going to have a high 60's low 70's event this weekend. So we shouldn't see a problem.

[Purple Frog]

I'm on my way out to the shop to copy a set of those splitters for my car.

[RussMcB]

I agree. I had planned to do it, but it never made it to the top of the list. After hearing Richard's experience, it sounds like a worthwhile and easy mod. Thanks, Richard.

[Richard Learned]

Rick,
Although somewhat difficult to ascertain from the pic, the splitter actually ends at the middle of the radiator thereby "splitting" the airstream into to separate elements. Looking from the front, the air closest to the body is now being fed to the rear and the air the the left of the splitter being forced to the front half of the radiator where I was getting no exit flow.

We took a squirrelcage and measured the air velocity at the opening with a standard wind guage (absolutely necessary to own in Kansas, you guys have been to Topeka) and then simply held it outside of the radiator in various places along it's length to determine where the air was coming out. If you seal the thing (an absolute must) the air "pockets" at the rear, at least that's what our little wind guage determined when we measured the airflow within the sidepod also. Since the air was exiting the back 40% of the radiator we "split' the airstream to fully utilize the entire length of the radiator, re-measured, found suitable results and went to the track where real time results verified what the little test had discovered.

Richard L

[Richard Learned]

"to separate elements"...how about having that read "TWO separate elements" in my previous post. Geeeez....

RL

[PF2000]

I've been told that a small fin on the front / outside of the raditior will help creat a low pressure area for better air flow. Does anyone have a photo of such a fin installed and did it help?

Paul

[jabro1000]

Richard, your minor grammatical faux pas is easily outdone by the brilliance of your splitter solution; very nice work, and I admire the science of your testing method. Keith's pods along with a set of splitters are definately on the to do list.

PF2000, I have a set of fins like that mounted on my 89. I'm kind of beat right now from another great weekend of racing, but I will get a picture up sometime this week if someone else doesn't get to it before me. Conceptually it seems like they could only help, but at least in my case they clearly do not help enough when ambient temps get in the mid 80's to low 90's. Seems to me that if one could get the job done with the splitter method it would save some drag and be more effective.

PS This weekend we ran the car in mid 70's temps and never saw the engine temperature get above 90 C (most of the time hovered between 80-85) Not sure why a 10 degree change in ambient temperature causes an exponential rise in engine temps, but at least we now have a whole beautiful Northwest winter to figure it out.

[jabro1000]

PF2000, here you go:

[Purple Frog]

The new aluminum radiators from Averill are great! 79 degrees today and I needed tape to get the engine up to 190. Before, I could get to 250 on the pace lap.

So the problems of the past year must have been the old radiators. Even though they "checked out".

Thanks Keith!

[kea]

Mike,
Glad to hear that it was the "fix". Now, drive it hard and have a good time.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff

[rickb99]

Frog,

Did you add the air splitter vains into the the pods?
Do the new(er) rads have a different core design?

[Purple Frog]

No splitter. New rads look identical to my old steel ones.