Dunlop Tires

[Roux]

Are you all following this thread??
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...807#post181807

One Club Ford topic for more discussion is the switch to Dunlop Tires for your CF region. I am in the middle of my second set and 40 somethingth heat cycle, and have had 12+ race weekends and have more tire to go before replacing them. The tires do not really fall off in grip level as they age so the need for fresh rubber is not as urgent. All of that said, my experiment shows that they are slower than R60's. Enough that I bought slicks for the first time in two years, and went back to back testing with them. Fresh Hoosiers were 2.5 seconds quicker on my car with me driving on a 1m11s lap. your results will likely vary

Now to the point. Folks are struggling with costs. tires are a HUGE contribution to cost. If we offered a solution to this we would attract folks to CF. Never a bad thing for on track competition and/or car value retention. (I don't propose to offer this as a FF solution. Different paradigm. )

Think about us attracting people to our class during a downturn, as opposed to bleeding out slowly like so many of the other classes.

I would propose only allowing the Dunlops rain or shine. You then have one to two sets of rims and tires TOTAL.

For this to work we need to mandate only one tire. I am not in favor of weight penalties or other creative ideas for the grippier tires.

A few of us tried this experiment but others stayed away. Any renewed interest in saving serious racing expense and making CF a haven in tough times?

Once the boys and girls get a taste of CF they may not leave when the economy bounces back. Why would you? Its a great regional class and a strong alternative to IT

[Garey Guzman]

Steve,
I ran on them with my DB6 at last years ARRC (bought used from Joe M). I agree roughly with your time difference, expecially since JRII was at least that much faster than me at that event!

I would be nice to have a universal tire rule but spec tires are always so hard to initiate and get universal approval. If people were really focused on saving money, this would probably be the best solution because they probably fall off less than any other tire available for our cars, other than the street tires used in the AZ Region. And I think the tires used in AZ are a lot cheaper!

If there was somehow a possibilty of a price break from Dunlop to do this, it would be even better. I think our cars would look better on Dunlops than the street tires....

[jgaither]

The vintage groups (mostly) now put the CF's in with the vintage FF's and require them to run the Dunlops. Except for some differences regarding aluminum heads and maybe flywheel weights, you can leverage that investment in the Dunlops and also enter your car in some of the vintage events. Those entry fees are higher but the so is the track time. The possible added bonus is that you might race more often at the tracks closest to you and save the fuel and / or hotel bill.

Depending on the flexibilty of the vintage sanctioning body, they may allow you to race even if you have a non compliant head or flywheel.

SeDiv requires only the R60 for CF, so this doesn't work down here except for the ARRC. They don't seem to be interested in changing. The CF fields here are pretty thin.

jg

[todcp]

Steve,

In complete agreement with making Dunlop the CF tire. The Hoosier 60 are great but fall off to quickly in performance.

Why not make it the NARRC tire.....

Tod

[Brian]

I'll go so far as to say that if it wasn't for the Dunlop tire's characteristic life, I would not be running a Formula Ford, full stop. I would not be putting tires on after 6 or 8 heat cycles, it just wouldn't happen.

I will say that I save my "new set" as long as I can for use as rain tires. I find new ones are better in the wet.

Brian

[stephen wilson]

I was confused in that other thread by Mark's mention of running R60's for 25+ heat cycles. There's no way they're competitive that long. I'm glad Tod & Brian seem to agree that 6-10 cycles are more realistic.(I haven't run Hoosiers yet, but they should be similar to GY600's).
Steve does have a point. Until most of the field is running Dunlops, I won't be. I know it's a only $5 trophy, but I don't want to relegate mysself to running for 5th or 6th against the 1 other person running Dunlops. I do know a couple of people who didn't like the Dunlops and switched back, but would they drop out if it was mandatory? It's a difficult problem.
Steve

[Garey Guzman]

I think everyone hates mandatory change. Being told to make a change, especially when it effects your wallet, will likely make people either bitter, resentful or they'll leave.

If a Region allows Dunlops in CFF (SEDiv currently doesn't allow them, except for the ARRC), the competitors could be contacted to reach an agreement for a "start" date for the Dunlops, say the beginning of the 09 season. If the majority of the runners use them in 09, they could become the spec tire for the '10 season with the competitors agreement. But if the experiment doesn't work in '09, the rules don't have to change, everyone will just go back to the R60.

[jpmacnicholl]

I'M RUNNING GY-600/ R-60 FOR 14-16 HEAT CYLCES , THE FIRST 6-8
DEFINITELY HAVE MORE GRIP. I WILL RUN DUNLOP WHEN THE ENTIRE
FIELD IS RUNNING THEM, OR AS REQUIRED AT VINTAGE EVENTS.
STEVE, TWO AND A HALF SECONDS CAN MEAN 10 POSITIONS !!!!!!!

JIM

[AJWALKER]

I have been on Hoosier R60's for about ten years and tend now to run them to 16-18 cycles. Early on I was running 25-30 cycles because I was learning and my times didn't matter what tires I was using. I try and run Friday test days, these are done on last years tires. That saves 4 to 5 cycles per weekend on my primary race tires. I find after 5-6 cycles they lose about 1/2sec and they stabilize until about 20 cycles. I find the better the car is balanced the longer the tires last. A couple seasons back I pickup a bad push and ruined a set of fronts in a weekend.

I have been racing with S. Roux and Mike Rand and Don Kendall when they have been running the Dunlops. On a tight track like NHMS you give up more time than at Lime Rock. Although for Mike the improved off road traction has its advantages. The Dunlops in the hands of faster drivers that have superior sense of the limit will produce times that will still put them at the front of the class. The Dunlops in the rain are another story. My observations are that they work ok on wet /drying track. In a steady rain with water sheeting or puddling on the track, a full purpose rain tire is the tire of choice.

I would support a full class change over to Dunlops or street tire if it is planned a season in advance. It is not my first choice but I will support a majority vote of the active Club Ford racers. I would however be disappointed if this was pushed to rule by a minority of active drivers.

[T644HU05]

Steve,
<snip>
I would be nice to have a universal tire rule but spec tires are always so hard to initiate and get universal approval. If people were really focused on saving money, this would probably be the best solution because they probably fall off less than any other tire available for our cars, other than the street tires used in the AZ Region. And I think the tires used in AZ are a lot cheaper!

If there was somehow a possibilty of a price break from Dunlop to do this, it would be even better. I think our cars would look better on Dunlops than the street tires....

The street tires (Sumitomo HTR's) we use are cheap ($300 mounted for a set ) and are very heavy. But, they last forever ! And by "forever" I hear some have used them for over a year and we run ten race weekends a year. They don't have the racecar look either but they work rain or shine . They are about 6-8 seconds a lap slower than the American Racers at PIR . So if it comes down to nothing but $$ the Sumi's fit the bill. If the "racecars use race tires" argument comes along, I think American Racers are a great cost friendly choice.

I believe the SCCA guys out here have a "Gentlemans Agreement" to use the American Racers in the regionals and they stick to it. In the end, that should do it. No rule changes, just good racers getting along, making a decision and trusting each other to stick to it.