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  1. #1
    FF23
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    Default June Sprints Split Start issues

    Okay,
    After contacting the Chicago Region Comp Board people in charge of the Sprints, here is
    what I have learned:
    No spec fuel Irregardless. They don't own the proper equipment to test it. Standard fuel tests apply just like any old National race.
    They would prefer to avoid split starts to save time. I don't understand that one! To get a split start we must bring it up on Thursday (Test day) to the officials and get 85% of the group to agree to it. I hope all of the FF and FM drivers want it. Do you want a Split Start?
    I have not been able to attach the letter successfully, so if you would like a copy just e-mail me.
    Thanks,
    Gerald.
    gerald@louisheadsets.com

  2. #2
    Contributing Member Garey Guzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Sprints email View Post
    Dear Gerald:
    Your letter has been forward to me from the Chief Registrar of the Sprints. I would like to address your concerns separately:

    Spec Fuel:
    As for spec fuel, Central Division as a whole is not going to require any groups to use spec fuel this year at all, including the Sprints or any other races in the division. Due to the chemical testing, the hazardous chemicals involved, the licensed and qualified personnel required to do the testing and various environmental conditions that must be present, and the other costs involved to do the procedure, the region and the division cannot make this requirement any longer.

    We will be doing fuel testing as per the requirements of the GCR.

    Gerald like you and many others that are concerned regarding the requirement of spec fuel, the cost factors of providing the testing now is basically out of our hands and must be put in the hands of the SCCA Directors and the CRB. The costs for regions to do the proper and detailed testing have become prohibitive.

    Split Starts:
    We have had drivers from the group wanting a split start and some that have voiced "no" split start. If the group is wishing a split start they will need to see me at the event on Thursday [test day] or Friday morning to obtain a petition form which will require 85% of the drivers in the whole group [FM & FF] to sign requesting a split start. The form with the required number of signatures will need to be returned to me by 8:00 am on Saturday morning [this will be before your 2nd qualifying session].

    Keep in mind that our Executive Steward of the Division [who also is a National license driver] firmly believes that drivers need to be cognizance of other drivers and their surroundings when racing which includes the start of the race as well as in control of their car. These two groups have raced together all over the divisions together for the last several years and more and more events are not doing split starts. Please understand that split starts require more timing and coordination and has in the past, put us behind schedule since we have a limited time of operation for each day. I also understand your concerns as well as I do with many of the drivers that have concerns.

    I will be in race control or my staff will be able to reach me by radio if you choose to proceed.

    Look forward to seeing you at the event.

    Sincerely,
    Bev Heilicher
    Chief Steward - June Sprints
    Gerald,
    I hope this is what you wanted posted!

    I would be for a Split Start, 100%.

    As I mentioned in another thread about the Sprints, this is the only event I've ever heard of FM and FF being the only cars in the run group. The only other time I run with FM is when it's a combined everything-wings-n-things group, usually a Regional.
    Garey Guzman
    FF #4 (Former Cal Club member, current Atlanta Region member)
    https://redroadracing.com/ (includes Zink and Citation Registry)
    https://www.thekentlives.com/ (includes information on the FF Kent engine, chassis and history)

  3. #3
    Contributing Member Garey Guzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Sprints Email #2 View Post
    Subject: RE: June Sprints Concerns!

    Hi Gerald:
    The form will be available to pick up starting on Thursday afternoon in race
    control at the race track. The form will not be available on-line due to
    the fact that in previous years several of the drivers forged signatures of
    drivers and when those that did not want a split found out that their name
    was already on the signature page, there were other issues at that point we
    had to deal with the SOMs. Please remember that the form must be returned
    to me by 8:00 am Saturday morning. It also must contain 85% of the total
    drivers of the FM and FF field. This way the split starts are in the hands
    of the drivers.

    As for the spec fuel issue, you will start seeing many more regions not
    offering to do the spec fuel due to the high expenses associated with doing
    the testing to make sure it is the correct fuel and in some states, the
    licensing requirements of dealing with hazardous waste. The costs of the
    equipment and the Chemists that are now required to do the job have made
    requiring spec fuel unobtainable. Again, this issue truly belongs in the
    hands of the SCCA Board of Directors and the CRB, and not at the region
    level. I'm truly sorry.

    Sincerely,
    Bev Heilicher
    Chief Steward
    Second email to Gerald that he asked me to post.

    I hope that everyone can agree that a split start will help make this a more enjoyable RACE for everyone.
    Garey Guzman
    FF #4 (Former Cal Club member, current Atlanta Region member)
    https://redroadracing.com/ (includes Zink and Citation Registry)
    https://www.thekentlives.com/ (includes information on the FF Kent engine, chassis and history)

  4. #4
    Contributing Member mblanc's Avatar
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    clipped from Bev's Letter.....
    "It also must contain 85% of the total drivers of the FM and FF field.
    This way the split starts are in the hands of the drivers."


    Who/how/what/where can it be decided that '85%' is required.

    I would think that 51% would represent the drivers.

    Even a Congressional 'super majority' is only 65% I think.



    I'm in full support of a split start.
    Last year they tried the same thing, didn't schedule a split, and acted like it was never done that way, but a large majority at the drivers meeting got it done.

    Can we challenge the '85% required' ?? or is that just a Stewards prerogative?
    FFCoalition.com
    Marc Blanc

  5. #5
    Contributing Member Garey Guzman's Avatar
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    If I was in the Chicago Region, I'd certainly bring it up to their Comp Comm/Chairperson/BOD. If the President can be over-rided with 2/3 majority, how is it that this event need so much more than that!

    If there were 30 drivers, 26 would have to sign for the split start! How is that possible?!?!

    Maybe this isn't worth the tow after all. The last thing I want to do is drive 11-12 hours back home with a broken car....
    Garey Guzman
    FF #4 (Former Cal Club member, current Atlanta Region member)
    https://redroadracing.com/ (includes Zink and Citation Registry)
    https://www.thekentlives.com/ (includes information on the FF Kent engine, chassis and history)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Don't sweat it Garey, I'm sure we'll get it done, even it it takes a little paddock footwork on Thurs-Fri. I'm sure a lot of folks don't know about the fascist 85% requirement.

    Dale V.
    Lake Effect Motorsports FM
    Dale V.
    Lake Effect Motorsports
    FM
    Spartan VP-2/Mazda

  7. #7
    Contributing Member John Nesbitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mblanc View Post
    clipped from Bev's Letter.....
    "It also must contain 85% of the total drivers of the FM and FF field.
    This way the split starts are in the hands of the drivers."


    Who/how/what/where can it be decided that '85%' is required.

    I would think that 51% would represent the drivers.

    Even a Congressional 'super majority' is only 65% I think.



    I'm in full support of a split start.
    Last year they tried the same thing, didn't schedule a split, and acted like it was never done that way, but a large majority at the drivers meeting got it done.

    Can we challenge the '85% required' ?? or is that just a Stewards prerogative?
    From the GCR (emphasis added):

    3.5.5. Changes To The Supplementary Regulations
    No changes shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations, except for
    the schedule and/or class groupings, after the beginning of the period
    for receiving entries unless unanimous agreement is given by all affected
    competitors already entered, or the Stewards of the Meeting so decide
    for reasons of safety or forces beyond their control. All schedule changes
    shall be approved by the SOM.

    Entries opened on May 1.

    You would be surprised to learn how few prerogatives stewards really have.
    John Nesbitt
    ex-Swift DB-1

  8. #8
    FF23
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    Default

    Surely the SOM would realize a non-Split Start is a huge safety problem.
    Agree?
    Gerald.

  9. #9
    Contributing Member Tim FF19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Barrett View Post
    Surely the SOM would realize a non-Split Start is a huge safety problem.
    Agree?
    Gerald.
    Actually the split start is simply considered an inconvenience by the SOM. They figure we are big boys (and girls) and should be able to take care of ourselves on the track. Why let something like safety get in the way?

    FWIW, I do not think the safety aspect of it is the main reason I am for a split start. Anybody who has raced in SCCA has got plenty of experiance with mixed groups both good and bad ('let me tell you about the time I raced a CSR with the FV's etc etc etc). But when you have a big event like the June Sprints and you mix the fast FF's with the mid pack and slower FM's it can screw up the race pretty badly for the front running FF guys. The slowest FM is faster in a straight line than the best FF's no matter who is driving. Obviously cornering is a different issue and there lies the problem.

    The SOM takes the position that 'if we did it before we can do it again'. You would think that after years and years of drivers complaining about no split starts they would realize it is what the drivers really want and not force us to jump throught hoops every year to get it switched. In the end, it is simply a matter of convenience for the SOM, no more, no less.
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

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