008/014 What's interchangeable?

[GregoryJ]

Can anyone confirm if the 008 nose & wing set-up is the same as the 014? What about wheels?

Regards,
GregoryJ

[Graham Rankin]

Gregory
The nose and wings are fully interchangable.I have seen diffferent variants of mounting brackets as they have evolved but the wing surfaces are the same.014 wheels can only be fitted to an 008 if you have the taper wheel nut / hub upgraded as on the 014. I have an 008/014 hybrid, so feel free to ask away.
Regards Graham

[GregoryJ]

Thanks Graham.

I'd be interested in learning more about what makes yours a hybrid and what experiences you've had with the car.

What is the purpose of the huge wheel nut/stub axle which needs 500+ ft/lbs vs the standard smaller size other than making it necessary to buy a 3/4 drive torque wrench. Is it a pertinent upgrade or nonsense? I've seen two 008.a's which use the large nut & stub axle for the rear and the smaller on the front. Were those updated or how they'd originally come from Swift?

Regards,
GregoryJ

[Triallyr]

I have a Swift 008 with the large axle nut in the rear and smaller one up front. My manual says that Swift required the upgrade for the rear in the pro series when they started losing rear wheels on oval circuits due to the sideloads.

Steven

[Graham Rankin]

Gregory,
My understanding is the same as Steven's on the hubs.Regards our car, there was an 014 body update offered to 008 customers who wanted to upgrade to the newer package.This was taken up by many, our car included.You will occasionally see an 008 for sale which says it is upgraded to an 014, but it will most likely only be the aero update.You cannot technically upgrade the 008 to an 014 as the 014 tub is torsionally stiffer with different trunion mount locations and the integral side intrusion, unlike the 008 which were add ons.Also the 014 uses the bigger SG3 gearbox compared to the smaller one on the 008.Our car is probably as close as it can get to an 014 as it has all the 014 running gear, gearbox included, but it is based on the 008 tub,What differentiates our car further is the fact that we dispensed with the Toyota in favour of a 2 litre Vauxhall / Opel BTCC spec motor.More power, more torque,1400 miles between rebuilds and (until the exchange rate tanked !) rebuild costs less also.Limited to running in FS in regionals of course, but thats OK for us.
Are you considering buying one??

Graham

[campbell53]

I am looking to get back into racing after a few years off. I'm seriously considering the 008/014. Obviously I like the asking prices of the former but am wondering about what truly makes them so different. With the various upgrades wouldn't the 008 be 95% of the 014 at only 50% of the cost? What would I really be missing or risking with a extensively updated 008?

[HazelNut]

check your email. I sent you the same PDF design paper i sent greg a few weeks back.

[Stan Clayton]

There used to be an old joke in Pro Atlantics...

Question: "What's the difference between an oh-fourteen and an oh-eight?"

Answer: "About two seconds a lap!"

[campbell53]

would a hack weekend racer like me really notice the difference? 2 secs might be noticeable to a Rahal...but probably not me. Anyone driven both and care to comment on the differences?

[Charles Warner]

A hack weekend racer should avoid the costs of these cars and settle for a DB-4 or an RT-4.

[campbell53]

touche...but if I was going to exercise good fiscal sense I wouldn't be in racing in the first place!

[Garey Guzman]

That's what this hack racer did! Kept my FF too!

[D.T. Benner]

One thing I learned about Atlantics as a former owner and current crew person is that most of the driveline related parts are not much stronger than that of a good Formula Ford! So to avoid the expensive results of catastrophic failures you need to check,inspect and replace things that you could ignore on lesser cars! The big tire and downforce loads that these cars generate is really hard on every part of the driveline and suspension. Trying to save a buck by not being realistic about component life will just cost you More in the long run.

[Paul LeCain]

I have no experience with FFs for parts life. I do have over 20 years of Atlantic experience.

Driveline experience:

Engines run 800-1200 miles depending on how many revs you use. Rebuilds for Toyotas (new pistons, rings, bearings, maybe a few valves, etc) cost around $5K.

Flywheels last a long time. The biggest thing to worry over is that they are tight to the crankshaft (100 lb-ft), and that the starter arrangement doesn't chew them up.

Clutches (carbon, single plate) will last a season. Rebuilds are $500-$800 from Tilton.

Input shafts for the gearbox last a long time without standing starts.

Gears and dogs are partly a function of your driver and partly a function of how many hours/miles you're willing to run them. Everyone is different here. I can't remember the last time I saw a gear or dog just break all by itself. Usually the culprit is some misalignment in the gearbox.

Ring and pinions last 2500-3000 miles.

Half shafts, if you have them made right, and use something like 300M, last many seasons. I have one set with over 60 races on them.

CV/tripod joints will last several seasons if properly cared for.

Wheel bearings in most Atlantics are very large, and last a long time - several seasons.

Modern radial tires will last 2-3 races. The compounds are soft, however, so they really flat-spot easily.

Brake pads 4-5 races, depending on track.

[campbell53]

Paul...thanks for that. I'm getting my feet wet in Atlantic information prior to purchasing one for club use. This info is great!

[Rick Ross]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the great info. Would you comment a little more on the durability of the radial tires? I have never run radials and did not know they lasted that long. Do you mean that they are normally good for 2 to 3 race weekends, including qualifying, etc? Or just good for the actual 2 or 3 races? Thanks.

[Paul LeCain]

Sorry this thread has gone so far afield from its start.

We ran a set of radials (Hoosiers, 25b compound) for a full double national weekend at Pocono in August. (disclaimer: we had a puncture on the right front and had to replace it. The right doesn't do much at Pocono, anyway.)

That was three qualifying sessions and two races. Lap times at the end of the Sunday race were essentially the same as earlier. In fact, the fastest lap of the weekend was about 2/3 through Sunday's race. The third last lap of the weekend (Sunday, lap 16 of 18) was only 0.032 sec slower than the fastest lap of the whole weekend.

I've seen people run these for 4 races, and win the 4th.

[Garey Guzman]

I thought the radials were only available for 15" wheels. True?

I've also heard that the radials are a bit sharper at the limit while the bias was a little more forgiving.

[Paul LeCain]

Hoosier started making 13" radials in 2007. I think Avon has them, too. Goodyear said they were going to produce 13" tires, but I never saw them.

Radials in general have higher grip potential, but they are, as you said, more 'sudden' at the limit. The setup is also very different from bias-ply tires - lots more camber; lots less toe.

[Rick Ross]

Paul,

Were you running the Ralt at the Pocono Nationals?

[Paul LeCain]

Yes we were.