eBay engines risky ?

[Gary Slahor]

I'm hunting for a GSXR1000 engine for my F-1000 conversion. eBay engines seems to be quite reasonably priced, but potentially risky.

I know there'a possibility that it could be a high milage, worn out clunker, but....is a low milage wreck salvage something to stay away from ? In other words, would a crash impart any internal damage to an engine that would not be obvious from the outside ?

If I carefully check a wreck salvaged engine for external damage and find none, is it safe to assume the motor will be OK ?

Just curious about any personal experiences.

Thanks..............Gary

[RussMcB]

I've gotten two good engines on ebay for very low prices.

It's a crap shoot. You have to be willing to take a risk. Look at the seller's ebay rating and don't even consider buying if the number of transactions is low or the feedback isn't 100% or damn near. Make sure you get a good feeling from the ad. Avoid ads with a one line description, out of focus picture, bad grammer*, anything suspicious.

If you get burned, it won't be a total loss, because you can take the engine apart and sell it by piece (head, covers, etc.) and get a decent return.

Watch Craig's list and other local sources, too, because there's a better chance you can see the engine before buying it, maybe even hear it run in the crashed chassis. Buying the whole bike could come in handy because you'll get everything (harness, air box, gauges, etc.)

* or bad speeling! :-)

[Gary Slahor]

Thanks Russ.

Does the fact that it might have been in a wreck cause you to stear away from it ?

Gary

[RussMcB]

Knowing that an engine was in a crash is a factor, but doesn't mean it's not good for our use. One of the engines I bought had a cracked sump and scraped side cover. The sump wasn't a problem for me since I run a dry sump, so that actually helped me get a better deal (probably fewer other bidders).

You could always send an ebay engine to George Dean as a first step. Then you'll have no doubt about its condition.

[Mike Devins]

What year are you looking for? If you are looking for an 07 or 08 you may consider a new engine. May sound a little more pricey than the used engine but when consider the risk that is eliminated it may be worth it. Also if you buy used teardown and inspect and break in on the dyno you may actually spend more than if you just bought new.

If you are willing to run it just like you got it and you get lucky a used motor is a good deal.

[Messenger Racing]

I have bought two 07 GSXr car kits and both have been from first class sources.

One - new came from Matt Conrad at Phoenix. First class guy - his word is good - quick response - knows how to package for shipping, etc. And, he is a supporter of this class!!!

Second one - used with 300 miles came through Mark Jobe Motorsports http://www.markjobemotorsports.com/ He has long specialized in used motorcycle motors for the roundy-round guys and knows the business. He is very keen to make new friends in the F1000/xsr crowd.

I highly recommend both of these guys. BTW, ebay prices from reputable sellers didn't beat these deals - I finally quit looking for them on ebay. Too much risk of crap.

FWIW

Jay Messenger

[Fatoldman7]

How about stolen motors from ebay? Does anyone know of a national data base to check to see if a motor is stolen?

[jjstecher]

I have bought four R1 motors from ebay and 2 GSXR motors from there now and have NEVER had a problem. I have also sold 3 motors on there without problem. My rule of thumb is contact the seller before hand and judge their communication to see what sort of a person they are, I also look at the pictures they provide as if people are selling a quality product they will show it off instead of hide stuff. Lastly as soon as the auction is over I call them up before sending any money just to level set on shipping and other things and let them know I am attentive.

As with anything there are risks but if you shop smart you wont get screwed.

[STRAN04]

I have had nothing but bad experiences on ebay with motors...I have bought 5 Yamaha motors over the past 4 or 5 years and have had only one (1) be ok! One had a blown 2nd gear...found out after complete install...One was shipped to me with part of the head broken off from an accident...Mexican guy from Texas...disappeared? One was with a head gasket blown...but not enough to tell...progressively got worse. One was said to be a 2005 YZFR1...after he shipped it to me ...uncrated it...it was a 2005 FZR...or something along those lines. Only one good one! I will NEVER use ebay for anything like this again! Ebay sucks...nothing but a nightmare for me!

Brian Lindstrand
Prince LSR
2005 Yamaha R-1
DSR #04

[davecadrealty]

I bought 2 motors on ebay for my race bikes from the same guy and they both ended up being stolen. I had him give me the engine numbers before I commited to buying them and I had the numbers run. At the time they where clean I guess he had just stolen them or they where just reported and the numbers did'nt make it to the system yet, but about a year later when I went to sell one of the bikes the motor came back as hot.

[jjstecher]

For those that had stolen engines did you follow up with the local police in the area of the person who sold you the engine? For those that had bad engines shipped to them did you request refunds and get them or take action through ebay/paypal etc?

John

[Messenger Racing]

Had a buddy in my office today. He races modified midgets. He recently bought a honda 600 on ebay - his first such transaction on ebay but he has bought several used ones before .

He paid 1200 plus 400 freight for something he could of bought elsewhere for 1800 delivered - saved 200 bucks he thought............

The guy had good ratings and feedback. He paid with a debit card through paypal. Now the motor has never showed, the guy has dissapeared.

No motor - no recourse after lengthy discussions with paypal, the bank or ebay other than leave negative feedback. He is in the process of contacting ebay security but unlikely to ever see his hard earned racing cash or the motor.

FWIW.

JM

[MarkJobeMotorsports]

First let me introduce myself. My name is Mark Jobe and I am the owner of Mark Jobe Motorsports LLC. I am the guy that Jay Messenger spoke of in his post and to Jay, Thank you. An addition to my introduction is that I am an eighteen year veteran law enforcement officer with considerable investigative experience and training. If you will indulge me I will speak with both of these hats on at the same time.

First, a national database does exist that catalogs stolen items of all types. It is called N.C.I.C. it is maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Not only does it keep up with stolen items it maintains info on wanted persons, firearms and much more. The only problem is that it is only available to law enforcement officials.

Second, people do sell stolen motorcycles and obviously that is a concern for all of us. With that said I will address the stolen engine issue. Every motor driven vehicle has a serial number or a vehicle identification number unique to that vehicle. If the motorcycle is parted out an engine number exists and is stamped somewhere on the engine. If the vehicle has a certificate of title this VIN is listed in that information. To check an engine number without a title to reference it to is very difficult and quite frankly is not something that most law enforcement officers are just lining up to do. Most simply do not have the time to go and check all of our engines with titles they probably do not have or have access to. As a general rule where you will get busted is when your seller gets caught with the entire motorcycle or parts to that motorcycle that are known to be stolen based upon a police investigation establishing probable cause. A chop shop is a good example of this. The seller then provides the names of everyone that he has sold to. At that point you, the buyer, are now involved. The odds of your engine coming up stolen as a result of an N.C.I.C. check of it's stamped number is very unlikely.

Now you are involved here is what happens then. If you made what is called a "good faith" purchase you do have rights in this situation. The police cannot just come and take your engine because they think it is stolen. This is still the United States of America and police actions are based upon probable cause. Simply the police have to have truthful information that would cause a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that their information is true. I think it's stolen is not what we are after here, a much higher burden of proof is required. AND, the burden of proof is on the police to prove it stolen, and not on you to prove it not stolen. Back to good faith. If you purchased an engine for a fair market price, you paid the seller and he provided you with a bill of sale you acted in good faith. If you bought your 2008 Gixxer for $500.00 you probably have a problem at this point. You now have a vested financial interest in this engine. This now creates a problem in the area of seizure. If it is stolen and the police have probable cause that it's stolen can they seize your engine, you bet. If they do not have knowledge that rises to that level they cannot. Illegal seizure is something we really like to avoid in the police profession. It helps to insure that we have the finances to send our kid to college and do not have to give it to you as part of a settlement.

Most courts in America have some type of victim compensation. The defendant, upon conviction and sentencing can be ordered to pay restitution to his victims. In most case you are eligible for that compensation. Sound good, don't hold your breath.We are talking about a thief here and sometimes the courts don't keep up with compensation records as they should, AND, IF, the guy goes to prison I assure you that you payment will be delayed.

What do you do. Obviously be careful and use your head. Find out who this guy is. How do you do that? Ask him flat out is this engine stolen? Who have you sold to that I can contact as a reference? Will you provide me with a bill of sale? Again, the bill of sale is a really big deal here. Where he got it is not that important because he can provide you with anything saying he bought it from anywhere. Pay him with a cashier check or money order and keep your copy. Does this guy advertise? If so what type of advertising is he using. Most motor vehicle thieves do not have a website nor will they show up in billboard advertising in a forum. People get bent out of shape because the seller will not reveal who they purchased the engine from. If you ask me who I bought it from or where I got it I will not provide you with that information. Am I hiding something, you bet I am, I am protecting my source in order to stay in business. Does this make me a criminal or shady no it does not. Does this put you at risk no. A reputable engine guy will gladly give you references, a bill of sale, and will welcome a paper trail transaction. Another tool you can use is your gut feeling about this guy. Does he pressure you? I usually have several potential buyers interested in the same engine kit. If you want to wait and the other guy don't I simply will not have it when you call me back. The fact that I have others looking at it is not something that you need to know and, if told, should raise the flag and I mean raise it HIGH. Why is it so important that you buy and not the other guy? Does he require a cash payment? Does he become irritated when you keep him on the phone with questions? Did he tell you to think it over and get back in touch with him if you decide to buy? Most people selling stolen property of any type are not real interested in answering questions or making friends with you. Unless you are dealing with a real hard core guy that is good at it you should get some opinion of what you are dealing with. If it smells bad it's probably because it is bad. If you follow common sense and act in good faith you should be ok.

Lastly, in the shut up Mark section. E BAY is risky. Is everyone on E BAY a crook? No. The problem with E bay is obvious in that you have no idea who you are dealing with if the deal goes bad. Feedback is good up until the point he decides to rip you off. E bay cooperation with law enforcement is adequate but is a real pain in the ass from the police position. Freedom of information is good if you want to find out if the guy has a traffic record. Finding out from E Bay who he is becomes a very involved process. Also generating interest in the already over burdened police in his jurisdiction is sometimes difficult even if you know who the guy is. Not that the police are bad or lazy it's just sometimes beyond their interest or capability to pursue the matter. It's just a sign of the times that we live in. The police have a lot going on and can only do so much. It's just hard to work a case when the entire US of A divides the victim and the offender. Most prosecutors don't like flying their victim across the country two or three times until the case is over.

Even though the engine business has the used car salesman stigma to it there are honest ones out there that are trying to make honest money or help fund his own racing operation. Just do your homework and don't line up to become a victim, there are no free lunches, if it looks too good to be true it probably is not true. If you don't get a good feeling about the guy don't buy from him. Common sense and the power of the question will usually go a long way in telling you who is who.

It is the responsibility of your engine guy to do his homework and protect you the customer from these types of problems. If he is legitimate he has done this, will continue to do it and will make sure you are happy with the purchase.

If you are ripped off do not hesitate to report it to the police or to E Bay or whomever. While the success rate is often disappointingly low sometime we can manage to put someone in jail. Your guy may be a part of a bigger operation and your information may lead to something bigger. Do not not hesitate to share you experience in forums, email, or any other form of communication .

The police and your engine guy work for you, so make them.

If you are still here thank you for your time.

Mark Jobe
Mark Jobe Motorsports.

[jjstecher]

Had a buddy in my office today. He races modified midgets. He recently bought a honda 600 on ebay - his first such transaction on ebay but he has bought several used ones before .

He paid 1200 plus 400 freight for something he could of bought elsewhere for 1800 delivered - saved 200 bucks he thought............

The guy had good ratings and feedback. He paid with a debit card through paypal. Now the motor has never showed, the guy has dissapeared.

No motor - no recourse after lengthy discussions with paypal, the bank or ebay other than leave negative feedback. He is in the process of contacting ebay security but unlikely to ever see his hard earned racing cash or the motor.

FWIW.

JM

Simple answer if his debit card is back by a major bank (Visa, Mastercard) he can call them up and report a fraudulent transaction and have them issue a charge back against Paypal for the specific transaction. He will get his money back. I have had it happen to two friends buying from shady buyers with stereo equipment. Trust me it will work.

Sorry to hear about the screw job.

I guess everyone has a horror story but me. Sorry I am offsetting everyone else's odds.

[Justin Daniels]

I purchased a GSXR-600 engine for my University's FSAE car, everything went off without a hitch until the motor arrived with a cracked oil pan and clutch cover. Mind you the engine was not properly packaged (it was not crated).

UPS is notoriously horrible for destroying items cross border, don't know how they are within the country. But it's just a warning that even if the seller is providing you with a great product, there's no guarantee it will always arrive that way (accidents happen). Carbon hoods for the Skyline guys up here are damaged 8/10 times, regardless of the company.

The best way to ensure you get what you pay for, and that it arrives in the condition in which you paid for it, is to inspect it yourself (as best you can) and pick it up yourself (if at all possible). If you ARE going to use eBay, make sure you get tonnes of pictures from the seller, use a credit card on PayPal, and make sure the engine is packaged well and shipped with a good company.

More often than not, you get what you pay for.

Just my two, very cynical, cents.

[superbikestore]

We buy quite a few salvage motorcycles and here are somethings to think about.
Almost none of the salvage or insurance yards have indoor storage - they are left outside in any weather. Up north you have to brush the snow off them in the winter to load them up.
It takes months to get from crash to auction where the bikes are sold.
Bikes do not stand up long in a wet field - most of them are lying on there sides half the year.
At least half of the motors we have seen have corrosion in the cylinder heads just from sitting around.
Any cracked cases / covers will get filled with water when it rains. Exhausts all fill with water.
Most of the bikes do not come with keys and will not start.

Many of the pictures on ebay of motors are the same pictures from different sellers - there is no reason to assume the picture is the actual part unless you have a good feeling about the seller and they have a decent feedback.

Assume you will have to rebuild it and you will be safe. If you don't have to its your lucky day!

Debit cards are no good if you want to get a credit back from your bank - use a credit card not a debit card.
Paypal will not give you your money back even if they find in your favour unless they can get the money back from the seller (never happens).
David