F1 - Oh Dear -

[dereklola]

"McLaren has been forced into an embarrassing climbdown - - - - and may start next season with a negative points penalty.

In a letter to the FIA they have conceded that three systems on their car for next year may have been influenced by information obtained improperly from Ferrari."

[John Duke]

While it is true that they have admitted something, it is not true that they have admitted to have done anything specific nor have they admitted guilt in any aspect of the case against them.

They have said that things MAY have happened. This only serves to clear the deck to race in 2008. This is what McLaren does---race. I suspect they will do that well in 2008. More importantly, they will survive as a business and will continue an amazing record of winning.

Ferrari (and I am a big fan) should be shot for continuing their legal action against McLaren. It is not in the best interest of the sport. Perhaps Max will now sharpen his knife for the Scuderia next.

[John Duke]

Regarding the propriety of the FIA in this sordid affair...one can judge for themself. The following is from grandprix.com re. the Renault mess.

The FIA World Motor Sport Council decision against McLaren back in September resulted in a transcript of the affair being published six days after the ruling was made, to show the world the fairness and transparency of the process.
The World Council met on December 6 and ruled that Renault was innocent of the same charges of which McLaren was found guilty. Today is December 15 and the transcripts of this case have not yet appeared and we are beginning to wonder whether the Renault transcript will ever be published.
Obviously in the interests of fairness and transparency this should be the case. If one does one thing for McLaren, one should really do the same thing for another team that has undergone a similar process. A precedent has been set.
And it would be best if this were to happen quickly lest the transcripts get lost in the onslaught of turkey, mince pies and good will at this time of year.
Welcome though a little good will may be, it's only fair that this process is completed in the correct fashion.

[Garey Guzman]

Wasn't McLaren initially found guilty of breaching the sporting code but given no penalty? Didn't the initial ruling say something about the case being reviewed if further evidence come to light? Didn't further evidence come to light and the case was revisted with a hefty penalty?

Maybe I missed an article or two but it seems like the FIA has been relatively consistant so far.

BTW, I think McLaren will be lucky to finish in the top 3 in the Constructors championship next year!

[Ted Idlof]

BTW, I think McLaren will be lucky to finish in the top 3 in the Constructors championship next year!

I love predictions like this........ Bold, no backup. just put it out there. Yee haw.

But I'm sure in 10 months I'll have forgotten

[Garey Guzman]

I love predictions like this........ Bold, no backup. just put it out there. Yee haw.

But I'm sure in 10 months I'll have forgotten

Well, I didn't want to bore everyone with analysis but to keep it short, it's pretty likely that Ferrari will continue to be strong, Renault gets an awesome development driver back and will likely run for podiums, there doesn't seem to be any reason why BMW-Sauber won't continue to improve, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, McLaren has agreed to freeze 3 aspects of their car which may have been influenced by Ferrari design. I don't think that a team can stay at the front when freezing 3 aspects of design! My belief is that McLaren will accept their penalty, get through the 08 season but start work early on the 09 car and be scary fast!

[John Duke]

If one does a careful review of the dramas of the 07 season (including the Ferrari wing and spring incidents, the McLaren rogue employee 'spying' and the Renault group review of the McLaren car) it would be impossible, IMHO, to conclude that the FIA have acted consistently in any way unless Max Mosely were your benevolent, rich uncle!

I am not a huge McLaren fan and even less of a Ron Dennis fan...however, they have been treated harshly when others have been let go. It is politics pure and simple. Mosely and Dennis have a long and unpleasant history. Max has a noteworthy, though not distinguished heritage...and it seems that the apple doesn't fall far from the genetic tree!

[Brands]

Max has a noteworthy, though not distinguished heritage...and it seems that the apple doesn't fall far from the genetic tree![/quote]

He does indeed! After all the unpleasant comments made by Mosley to Jackie Stewart it's a credit to the three time Wolrd Champion that he didn't allude to Mosley family history!

[Ted Idlof]

BTW, I think McLaren will be lucky to finish in the top 3 in the Constructors championship next year! ................I don't think that a team can stay at the front when freezing 3 aspects of design! My belief is that McLaren will accept their penalty, get through the 08 season but start work early on the 09 car and be scary fast!

That's a plausible scenario. But just one of many if 2007 is any indication of what all is possible. We will see.

[Roger Eade]

Are you saying that Max wears a Black shirt, and his father used to visit a deposed world leader.
Roger

Max has a noteworthy, though not distinguished heritage...and it seems that the apple doesn't fall far from the genetic tree!

He does indeed! After all the unpleasant comments made by Mosley to Jackie Stewart it's a credit to the three time Wolrd Champion that he didn't allude to Mosley family history![/quote]

[John Duke]

The info about Max's & his folks political proclivities are well documented.
Regarding pops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley/

Max's own participation in the fascist cause is mentioned here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mosley

He is not a nice man, he has an axe to grind with the establishment in the UK. Ron Dennis represents all that he is not, a gentlemen, a tough but honest and fair competitor, ruthless but not a cheat. Dennis is old school, Max wasn't allowed in school. Dennis has done it the hard way, by producing results. Max has done it by underhanded politics, back room deals and strategically placed knives in the backs of many who underestimated him.

Some would then say, but he is a protege of Bernie's...to which I mention the admonition that one should keep their friends close and their enemies closer.

[John Nesbitt]

... Ron Dennis represents all that he is not, a gentlemen, a tough but honest and fair competitor, ruthless but not a cheat. Dennis is old school, Max wasn't allowed in school. ...

There seems little question that there is bad blood between the two, but you misread the English class system.

Ron Dennis is most emphatically not a 'gentleman' in the English sense - he left school at 16 and became an apprentice. He did, in fact, make his way through hard work.

Max Mosley was barred from schools as a child, but made his way to Oxford University, where he was secretary of the Oxford Union, graduating with a degree in physics. He is very well-connected, thanks to his family background.