Are they Formula cars?

[MarkM]

Please, get back on your meds.

[cooleyjb]

By the definition that SCCA uses, FE and FM are devinitely NOT Formula Cars. How does an interested manufacturer have the opportunity to compete in FM and FE? SCCA is not adjusting specifications or restricting CERTAIN spacific componants to equalize competitive potential, they are controlling or making every single part of the car, AND SELLING IT!!. How do you think this definition makes your point?? It seems to me that this just confirms my contention.

One could actually contend most every FF, FC, FA and so on is not a formula car by the definition SCCA uses.

You can look at the modified part of the description-- With the exception of the FB cars and some of the FS cars out there most of our cars are relatively unmodified compared to how they rolled out of the factory. If you consider how modified some cars are like the HP.

My car looks pretty close to the pictures of the car when it was delivered in 1989. I can't say the same for many of the tintops that race.

[Douglas Brenner]

Please, get back on your meds.

That's not very kind. This is a public forum and I have as much right as anyone to use it. I am answering posts. I think it is an interesting topic. If no one was interested, it wouldn't be two pages.

[Douglas Brenner]

One could actually contend most every FF, FC, FA and so on is not a formula car by the definition SCCA uses.

You can look at the modified part of the description-- With the exception of the FB cars and some of the FS cars out there most of our cars are relatively unmodified compared to how they rolled out of the factory. If you consider how modified some cars are like the HP.

My car looks pretty close to the pictures of the car when it was delivered in 1989. I can't say the same for many of the tintops that race.

How do you figure modifications are not part of that definition? It says "highly midified" in the description. It does not say who can modify it. That is exactly the point. Formula Cars are ment to evolve within the specific formula, spec cars are not. Another good reason why a spec car is not a formula car.

[cooleyjb]

How do you figure modifications are not part of that definition? It says "highly midified" in the description. It does not say who can modify it. That is exactly the point. Formula Cars are ment to evolve within the specific formula, spec cars are not. Another good reason why a spec car is not a formula car.

I'm saying that highly modified IS part of the definition SCCA has used and that if you consider that a car, as it is delivered from the factory is NOT modified then most of the F* cars are pretty similar to how they came from the factory. Especially if you consider how modified many cars that are road raced are.

If I went out and bought a brand new Van Diemen didn't touch a thing from the factory and started racing it, would you consider it a 'formula' car considering that it hasn't been modified at all since it was delivered from the factory, let alone highly modified.

A car that I would consider is 'highly modified' would be the FB conversion cars and to some extent the FC-->FF conversions.

[Douglas Brenner]

I'm saying that highly modified IS part of the definition SCCA has used and that if you consider that a car, as it is delivered from the factory is NOT modified then most of the F* cars are pretty similar to how they came from the factory. Especially if you consider how modified many cars that are road raced are.

If I went out and bought a brand new Van Diemen didn't touch a thing from the factory and started racing it, would you consider it a 'formula' car considering that it hasn't been modified at all since it was delivered from the factory, let alone highly modified.

A car that I would consider is 'highly modified' would be the FB conversion cars and to some extent the FC-->FF conversions.

I see what you are saying now. I think the point there is you can also buy a Piper, a Citation, a Mygale, etc., or pick up a used Tatus, Swift etc. You have a choice based on your feelings of what is going to be most competitive. Also, you could probably order a Van Dieman with different shock packages, areo packages etc.

One of the great things about a spec class, especially one as potent as FE, is that you don't have to make the decisions about what car, shocks, wings etc. to get. You can concentrate on your driving. But some of us like to fuss with stuff. We are all motivated by different things, but now you have a choice. So spec classes are long overdue. But we need both and I feel we need to define them better.

[J Mabee]

So basically this is a formula car by Webster's definition


And this front engine car is not!

Ah Ha! Thats why I have always loved Top Fuel Funny Cars!!

[Eric Cruz]

Would be interesting to see Rob Howden's (editor/publisher of Formula Car Magazine) opinion, since my new issue just arrived, filled with pics of Pro Formula Mazda, Formula BMW, Formula Mazda, and yes, even FEs. I'm kinda thinking if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...what's the freakin' point?

Best regards,
Eric

[Dennis McCarthy]

Eric,

It's the snowblower fumes.........

Happy Holidays!

[Douglas Brenner]

[quote=Eric Cruz;157822]I'm kinda thinking if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck...what's the freakin' point?

[Scala]

Litmus test: when a cute and congenial but not-too-knowledgeable paddock bird asks you what it is, are you going to get into a cliff claven about how it's a spec car and not, as it appears, a formula car?

I hardly think so.

"That? Oh, that's another formulacar, hun..."

[Ted Idlof]

Yeah, that's what I'm still wondering..........what's the point of this thread??

Doug........you got cabin fever already?

[CornerSpeed]

Douglas, hope you and Marlane are enjoying the wintery weather there on the farm in Ft. Bragg and I'm looking forward to seeing you, her and "Mo" at the track in the spring. Great thread, man! I can see your point as well as the points made on the other side. All I can say is I sure miss the chassis, motor and tire wars of the late 1980s through mid-1990's events of what was then CART and Toyota Atlantic. Those were great days, with what, four chassis builders in CART (Reynard, Lola, Gurney Eagle, Swift), powered by five competing motors from Ford/Cosworth, Mercedes Benz, Honda, Toyota and the Ilmor/Chevy. And all that turbocharged power was put to the ground on rubber from two competing tire manufacturers. Atlantic was just as entertaining, with Swift, Ralt, Reynard and even Raven (remember that!!!) all building chassis. It was a psuedo-spec class since everyone had to run the Toyota A4-GE powerplant and Yokohama rubber, but the chassis battle was fantastic. My favorite is still the Reynard 92/93H.

Michael

[Douglas Brenner]

The answer to the question just came to me. All of you who think there is no point to this discussion can just go on to another thread now!

It is not the car that is not a Formula Car, it is the class. FE cars run all the time in FA. The fact that they run and can be homoligated in FA kind of proves they are a Formula car. A FM can also run and be homoligated into FS. It is the classes that aren't really Formula car classes for all of the reasons mentioned on the last three pages. I guess what I have concluded is that when a class is totally spec, the class shouldn't be called a Formula Car class. The classes should probably be called GPE and GPM and the cars identified as such. But when a car can be homoligated and run in a true Formula Car class, it is a Formula Car.

[D.T. Benner]

Michael (cornerspeed) what made possible all those different choices was Money from Big Automakers. To bad they all took their big $$$ to play in Formula One.

[Scala]

The answer to the question just came to me. All of you who think there is no point to this discussion can just go on to another thread now!

It is not the car that is not a Formula Car, it is the class. FE cars run all the time in FA. The fact that they run and can be homoligated in FA kind of proves they are a Formula car.

I think you've got it, Mr. Brenner.

A bunch of us in Ontario believe that our region's classes should be a typology of the cars within it. We're slowly figuring it out...