November Fastrack - Formula First ???

[Art Smith]

what is the purpose/intent of including the Formula First rules in the CRB's 09-27-07 meeting minutes? is the CRB recommending yet another Formula class??

Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[Tom Valet]

Art, just prior to the statement of the class rules they ask for comment from membership about creating a regional only Formula First class in accordance with the listed rules, so yes they are suggesting that another class be created.

Tom

[Stan Clayton]

Formula First is a sub-specie of FS that has been active in SCCA for several years. The class started in NZ and Oz as an update to FV, and has caught on nicely in parts of the US. FWIW, there are more FST drivers and entries in SCCA than there are several of the lower subscribed National classes. Stan

[iamuwere]

All FV should seriously consider going FFirst. They are just so much more pleasant on the track.

[dd46637]

There are quite a few people racing in FST myself included.

Unofficially as of today there have been 219 entries this year. If those had been national races the class would stand 25th on the list.
Dave

[GT1Vette]

Not to jump the gun too much, but we'll probably end up inviting FST to the 2008 ARRC whether it's a "Nationally recognized regional-only class" or not. I spent an hour or so with Bill Bonow at the Runoffs and the car is what FV could/ought to be.

[John Robinson II]

Butch,
They can replace FFX next year....mutter, mutter...mumble

john

[GT1Vette]

Since we're aniticipating FB will continue to build (pun intended) and CF will show up in even greater numbers than this year, what we're talking about is putting CF and FST in the slot that FE is vacating leaving nothing but wings in the other group - works out well for BOTH single-seater groups. Sorta like back in the 30's when Georgia ceded it's southernmost row of counties to Florida in an effort to raise the IQ levels of both states!

CFX is certainly toast, but the jury's still out on FFX. Maybe the data obtained this year will encourage more participation in 2008.

BK

[Bill Bonow]

Thanks Butch, It sure was nice to talk with you as well and I hope we can bring you plenty of cars to fill the FE void in '08.

Formula First is nothing more than an updated FV (newer parts). The concept was hatched at the '01 June Sprints, and a prototype hit the track in '02. The concept took off as people started building cars (even without classification) and simply having fun. In '07, running in only 3 Divisions, about 30 FST's racked up some 200 Regional entries. At some Regionals, FST was better than 10% of the weekend entry total. Needless to say that our series host Regions are already contacting us about bringing the series back in '08.

Many have said, what SCCA needs an entry level formula car that looks good, cheap to run and costs under $25K. Well, a new FST on the track is about $23k (a real number) and a converted FV can be under $10K (including buying a used FV). As a point of interest, over half of our drivers are 100% new to SCCA.

We are asking for REGIONAL ONLY status and would ask all of you for your support.

Please email crb@scca.com and bod@scca.com with the text "I am in favor of Formula First as a Regional class"

Anyone needing further info is more than welcome to contact me (815) 715-3253

[samiam520]

Just in case some of you have never seen a Formula First here is a picture of the new Mystique M5 Formula First.

[VehDyn]

Good looking car. Whats the kit price?

[Joefisherff]

I have to say that in September when we ran with the Vees and the formula first guys in pouring rain at Mid-Ohio they were very fast. The Vees and the Formula First guys were amazingly quick in the torrential rain that we were running in and everyone played very well together. There were considerable speed differentials as a number of very good national drivers showed up for the EWC, I agree that this is what the FV's need. Now don't get me started on what the Formula Fords need and the Pintos.... More speed better rocko....

This mystique is a great looking car!

[Bill Bonow]

Ken,

New car kit prices vary from $10k to $18k depending on how complete one buys the kit and the Mfg. Here is another car. Built by Larry Campbell (yep, the brake rotor guy), called the Evolution


Here is a link to the Mid-Ohio race that Joe is talking about:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...41016345306985

And here is a dry race at Road America:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96240831369060

[HazelNut]

enough damn classes already. The last thing we need is another freakin class!!!!!

[Purple Frog]

Before there was FST... there was the Cockroach.

Built and raced by yours truly. Actually a pretty killer solo car at the time.

J C Whitney wheel adapters. FF rear tires on the front. 14" rears off the front of a Porshe. Headers taken off my off-road buggy. 1835 cc, 8 lb flywheel, serious flycut heads, Zenith 2bbl...

[Daryl DeArman]

Not every new class that springs up will stand the test of time. Some will.

Some classes are as popular as long as they are because of rules stability, some die because of their resitance to change.

Time will tell who is who.

Personally, I hope FST, FB(F1000) and FE take off and all the FV's, Pinto FC's and FF's become a vintage class. I race vintage and would love to see more of those out there. I think SCCA needs the newer technology to attract a younger demographic. Could be healthy for both SCCA and the vintage clubs.

[samiam520]

Kit price for the Mystique M5 will be $7,995.00 That includes the following:

• Frame
• 3 piece body
• Steering rack
• Fuel Cell
• Fuel Cell cover
• Rear suspension arms
• Rear shock rockers
• Pedals
• Master cylinder mount
• Fire wall
• Belly pan
• Dash
• Steering shaft and tie rods
• Shift Linkage
• Battery box
• Exhaust

Pretty much everything except the VW parts i.e Engine, Transaxle, Front beam assembly and safety items.

Depending on how resourceful you are the entire car can be built for $12K to 15K

Cost to operate the car should fall in line with the other FST cars at about $200.00 per race. That is direct operating cost, not entry's, towing, etc. The best value in racing bar none

For more pictures click on the link below:

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q...Mystique%20M5/

[Bill Steele]

There were a number of Formula First cars running in Group 4 (FF, CF, FV, F500) at the last Laguna Seca race. Can't say how they stack up performance wise against the older Vee's as I was a little busy at the time.

I will probably be drummed out of the Ford secret society for saying this but they are pretty cool cars. I will be very surprised if they don't give a major boost to the FV demographic.

Never could get that damn secret handshake down anyway...

[samiam520]

Bill, I would guess that a properly set up FST will be in the high 1:30's at Laguna. Blake Tatum turned a 1:40.15 last weekend. Not bad for the first time out.

Really fast Vee's are in the 1:43's

[sdd04]

[
Personally, I hope FST, FB(F1000) and FE take off and all the FV's, Pinto FC's and FF's become a vintage class. I race vintage and would love to see more of those out there. I think SCCA needs the newer technology to attract a younger demographic. Could be healthy for both SCCA and the vintage clubs.[/quote]


I am always surprised when people want to send the 3rd most subscribed class is SCCA , the number 1 subscribed open wheel class, the number 1 non spec class, and the class with the largest number of competitors at the Runoffs-all of this in 2007, out the door. Perhaps it's not one of the "broken" areas of club racing.

If you want the find the racing youths, just go to your local cart track. They are starting there while still in single digit age.

[Daryl DeArman]

And while you are at the kart track ask those kids or their parents if they have any interest in racing an air cooled VW or pinto powered car in SCCA.

FV is very popular for a variety of reasons. The impact that FST has on FV's long time participants is yet to be determined.

For clarification regarding FST potential I believe "high 1:30's" translates to 38's and 39's. not 30.999. The FST cars have ABOUT the same top speed as a FV, a little less grip due to the tire compound and a lot more torque down low.

[dd46637]

These rules describe and specify Formula First racing cars. Formula First is an open wheel class using predominantly Volkswagen production components in a single seat body with a steel frame. It is an evolution of Formula Vee, using a wider range of components. FORMULA FIRST DOES NOT DISPLACE FORMULA VEE. A Formula First car is ineligible for Formula Vee. The intent of these rules is to provide for cars of substantially equal performance with moderate construction cost, low operating cost, and high reliability and longevity.

The above quote is directly from the rules package that was submitted to the CRB.

Not one of us in the class has any desire to see FV or any other class go away . Nor is there any intent to replace any class that is currently allowed. I see no reason not to allow FST as a regional class given the current lack of car count in the formula car groups at most events.

In 10 race weekends this year I ran in groups of as much as 35and as little as 8 cars. I personally get more gratification finishing 10th oal out of 35 than 2nd out of 8. Racing at the club level is about testing yourself against others and not neccesarily in the same class. I have had just as much fun racing against a FF,CFF or FV as I have with another FST.

We all race beacause we enjoy it and I'm all for letting as many join in the fun as want to, no matter what class or type of car or how much or little you can afford to spend

More cars on the track is better for all of us in the long run.

JMHO
Dave

[samiam520]

Daryl, when I said High 1:30's..................... 1:38 to 1:39 is what I meant.

[FVRacer21]

I have had just as much fun racing against a FF,CFF or FV as I have with another FST.

I disagree. I get no satisfaction racing against another class, especially if that class is theoretically faster than mine. I have had many races "ruined" by a F500 who was 3 or 4 seconds off the pace and thought it was fun to race a FV. Same goes with Club Fords running 6 seconds off the pace. You should know who you are racing against and respect cars in other classes.

At the same time there is a group that thinks it is entitled to its own race when the faster leaders come through. If 3 FV's are having a fight and the F500 leader comes through; yes, it is his responsibilty to make the pass, but they cannot ignore the blue flag becuase they are racing.

The answer is to keep up your numbers so you don't get put in with other groups.

ChrisZ
FV#21

[Bill Bonow]

To get this thread back on track, Formula First is currently a regional class in CenDiv, Great Lakes Div and NE Div. In the past three years, we have accounted for some 400 Regional entries in those divisions. We just want to be recongized as a Regional class on a nation-wide basis. The class continues to grow and we want to keep one set of common rules for everyone.

If you think Formula First is a good idea, we are asking for your support. Please email crb@scca.com and bod@scca.com with the text "I am in favor of Formula First as a Regional class"

Anyone needing further info is more than welcome to contact me (815) 715-3253