FB Body Style

[Duane Dyckman]

The new Stohr and Phoenix are great looking F1 style cars. But is that aero style necessarily the best for the class in performance terms? Checking the Dallara site shows bodywork very similar to the newest VD FC. Can any of the gurus impart some knowledge?

[carnut169]

No crystal balls here. Only time will tell which designs work best.

[P. Howarth]

link please!

[Duane Dyckman]

http://www.dallara.it/

[GRM1]

If memory serves me right. I think Dallara had worked on a car for the F2000 series, it was at the runoffs 2 years ago on display. For some reason the car was never used and the series stayed with the VD.

[P. Howarth]

I meant a link to the page on the Dallara site that has the FB/F1000.
I couldn't find it on their site. Were you saying that it might look like this car?

[Richard Dziak]

As an owner of the Phoenix F1K.07, I feel that the design of this car is very unique to its class. The cars aerodynamic nature provide fantastic handling, and provides great grip on the track. The car is very lightweight and I am shocked at the tire wear, which is virtually no wear on the tires. The car arrived with a fresh set of Goodyear Eagles, and after 3 races, and one open track day at my local track, they show no tire wear. The side strakes on the rear, provide extra downforce, and with the aerodynamics of the Pennon Wings on the car, there is no overheating problems. The was car designed for a pleasureable ride, and the handling is awesome. At 6' ...225#'s the cockpit is ample for a comfortable fit. The horsecollar provides a bit of trouble with my shoulders, but once under the collar, the car is very comfortable.

The careful planning and design has lent itself to a beautiful race car, smooth ride, and great performance. I am quite surprised that there are not more of these cars on the track. Many racers are missing out on a fine race car. I am certain with a top driver in my personal car, the car has the potential to win championship races. While Matts car is the prototype car, the final production model is a superior racing machine.

I think anybody considering a turn key car, this is the one. The car was delivered full race ready to me, and the only thing I had to do was get in it and practice, qualify, and race. As I drive the car and test it, the run times only get faster. The car sticks like glue on the track, and is a blast to drive.

The potential for slight modifications in design will only make this F1000 more attractive. Many racers have under estimated the quality of this race car, and believe they have choosen the competitors car based on looks. The reliability of Phoenix F1K-07 to date is awesome.

A driver like a Graham Rahal, Al Unser Jr, Sebastian Bourdoir or any Formula race car pro, would enjoy this car. I wish I could send my car with one of these drivers to the ARRC. Then perhaps the true quality, and design of the Phoenix would truley be known. Matt Conrad and Dustin Wright has built one mean racing machine.

I couldn't be happier as an owner of this fine F1000.

[Duane Dyckman]

Richard,
I couldn't agree more. The Phoenix is very well thought out. My purpose was to ask why all the interesting designs when the F3s run about in the same speed area. To get every extra mph those cars have been aero tuned etc. Is it the exitement of building cars different than those currently being raced. I await with great interest the runs of Sean Maisey's VD conversion.

[Stan Clayton]

If memory serves me right. I think Dallara had worked on a car for the F2000 series, it was at the runoffs 2 years ago on display. For some reason the car was never used and the series stayed with the VD.

The 2006 Dallara on display at HPT last year was for the still-born USF3 series. It would have run with a pumped up Zetec, but was not intended as the replacement FC/F2000 car. Stan

[Matt Conrad]

Duane,

I e-mailed you seperately on this....but I wanted to make a few points publicly.

1. Many of the cars being built out there are being built for "Spec" series where only one make of car is allowed. This fact does not force the designer to truly maximize the design efficiency...some things are usually compromised as each of the cars are the same. I think each of the Dallara cars I saw on their site fall into this category.
2. Our F1000 was designed specifically for the performance envelope we estimated for this class.....between an FC and an FA. So far from what we've seen....that's where these cars are running and our assumptions have been correct.
3. It is true that the Van Diemen's have been dominant in FC....but I think it is purely due to the numbers. If there's 25 cars in a race and 22 of them are of one make....the odds of one of the other makes winning is pretty small.....even though I've seen two very well driven Swifts in FC trim over the past few years that gave the best driven VD's a run for their money (Morgan & Minium)....not to mention that Dave W. has won a couple championships in a Citation.

Good luck with your project!

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[rcrockett69]

If memory serves me right. I think Dallara had worked on a car for the F2000 series, it was at the runoffs 2 years ago on display. For some reason the car was never used and the series stayed with the VD.

This was supposed to be the new FF2000 for the US series. But there were problems with the backers of the series so it never went any further.




As with almost every new formula open wheel car, the design elements are very common. The raised nose has improved air flow over a larger wing element in the front and allowed improved air flow to the splitter underneath the cockpit area. This feature is not seen on early formula cars, which will not be able to take adavntage of the additional downforce produced by this element. This feature is not only found on formula cars, even though that is where it first appeared, it is even on the full bodied version such as the Audi R10. I took this picture at MMP during the Utah GP in 2006, by crawling under the car to snap away.



I think the only professional series that has not converted, only because the model has not been updated for several years, is the Dallara used in the IRL. Which is due to be replaced very soon. Most cars that compare to the FB class have all undergone this transformation to the improved aerodynamics, all taking their leads from F1, Champ Car, GP2 and A1GP.


Dallara GP2 2008


Formula Renault 2.0 ltr. - Tatuus

The other main aerodynamics improvement has come from the rear of the undertray. The new venturi's and diffusers have significantly improved downforce and rear end stability without the need for high angle attack wing settings. These elements also are directly effected by the improved air flow from the front raised nose configuration. As seen on this F3 Dallara.



All things considered, which excludes the driver, the newer designed formula cars should significantly out perform the earlier non-raised nose cars.

[Stan Clayton]

Wow...awesome post, Richard (rcrockett69). I love it when people go out on a limb!

Makes me wish I was going to the ARRC. Seeing Sean battle it out with John Hill in the factory Stohr should be the highlight of the show. (Yes, I started a rumor there... )

Y'all be safe, and may the best pilot win!

Stan

[Purple Frog]

Although maybe not cost effective... the black Dallara pictured might be FC legal in SCCA with the correct zetec map/intake, and of course 8s and 6s. (I can't tell if the bodywork and front wing might be too wide.)

[VehDyn]

The Dallara has a carbon fiber tub.

Ken

[rcrockett69]

The formula renault, also used in the US as the Formula TR 2000 series, is probably the closest to meeting the standards and overall dimensions, but all of the cars posted have carbon tubs. So if someone can reverse engineer a formula renault to a spaceframe with bodywork based on the current car, that might be an option. It might be cheaper than desgining and creating a mold from scratch.

[GRM1]

That was the car I was thinking of.

[rcrockett69]

Anyone interested in the project as a group? You can pickup the Formula Renaults for about $20-25K complete. There might be a cheaper option for the roller. The Formula Renault also looks very similar to the Pacific Motorsports pictures that was posted on this site early this year. Maybe they might be interested??