What is the consensus regarding value of Power Commander, TRE, etc.?

[RussMcB]

Bottom Line: If I show up at the ARRC with a totally stock engine & management system, how much of a disadvantage will I be compared to people running Power Commanders? Same question regarding Timing Retard Eliminators. Anything else (such as block off plates)?

I'm wondering if I can get by without spending the money, and I'd like to reduce risk of problems due to extra complexity. On the other hand, I don't want everyone to say bye bye to me as we leave T7.

And to clarify, I'm talking stock, low mileage, un-rebuilt ebay engines. I wouldn't expect to be on the same level as a professionally built engine.

Oh, and I do realize that to maximize the value of a Power Commander, some chassis dyno tuning would increase it's contribution to HP/torque.

TIA.

[VehDyn]

I too would be curious to see what the rear wheel power numbers are for the Power Commander and the new Bazzaz piggy back. George Dean says he can just remap the ECU and we saw Mr. Conrad's video of the 171 hp to the wheel. Can the Power commander hit that?

Ken

[carnut169]

In order to get the most out of a Power Commander the engine must be tuned on a dyno. A stock map can help a bit (1-2hp) but tuning YOUR engine with YOUR exhaust & intake can net much more.

Russ you may be at a disadvantage anyway with the Kawaski. I don't really know but most XSR's are running Yamaha or Suzuki and there has to be a reason...


On the TRE (for Suzuki) it fools the ecu to think the trans is in 5th gear (I believe) so it allows full power in the 1st 3 gears. I would think this would be a must for us- I use 100% throttle out of 7 starting in 2nd gear. If the timing was retarded to prevent wheel spin (with a 2" contact patch like a bike has) it would have to slow you down.

Get the Gi-Pro- gives you gear position and a tre in one unit.

[sidney]

http://www.rocketmotorsportsinc.com/

No gear indicator though...

[RussMcB]

Russ you may be at a disadvantage anyway with the Kawaski. I don't really know but most XSR's are running Yamaha or Suzuki and there has to be a reason...

From what I've read, the major bike manufacturers are all pretty close every year with no real leader in HP. Do you think or know otherwise? I agree that racers want the best, so that may indicate that many think the Suzukis & Yamaha's are better, but that may be because of quantity rather than quality. More Suzukis sold = more crashed Suzuki engines available. I think that's a big reason we don't see more Hondas. Also, with more numbers comes more aftermarket parts availability (dry sumps systems, etc.). And maybe (wild guess) it's different when you consider non-stock internals used in DSR?

Every once in a while I Google search for bike dyno comparisons and can't remember ever seeing Suzuki or others doing much better than Kawasaki, but who knows?

[RussMcB]

http://www.rocketmotorsportsinc.com/

No gear indicator though...

Thanks, Ian. I guess you can't go wrong for $49.

However, after reading the following description, I have a question.

"The TRE (Timing Retard Eliminator) is a device that allows much better throttle response in the first four gears on EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) Kawasaki sport bike models. What the manufacturer has done is to make a separate ignition map for each gear. This has been done for either safety (wheelies/wheel spin) and/or emissions reasons. However, it limits the power and smoothness of your bike in the first ½ turn of the throttle in gears one through to four."

That last sentence makes me think the stock timing only decreases power at part throttle. If so, who cares about that in a race car?

[Joshua Held]

I would keep it simple considering this is your maiden voyage. Run the thing bone stock and focus on the basics; car setup, balance, and reliability. There is more time in these factors then a HP or two. The Kawa is close to a GSXR anyway.

A gear indicator is great to have when you are first learning the car. Getting the car into turns in the right gear is critical, if you bog the motor your dead meat. During 6th to 2cond downshifts I usually give a slight glance to my indicator.

Just my opinion
Josh

[carnut169]

I would keep it simple considering this is your maiden voyage. Run the thing bone stock and focus on the basics; car setup, balance, and reliability.

Now THAT is super advice.

[RussMcB]

I agree. I just wanted to hear what people thought the added benefit of a Power Commander, etc would be. If it's 1-2 HP, I can rely on my superior driving ability to overcome the deficit , but if it's 4-5+ HP I may decide to make the investment.

I just didn't want to show up at the ARRC Gunfight with a BB gun. :-).

A lot of people are picking me to win the ARRC FB race, and I'd hate to let them down.

(<-- These are those people :-)

[formulasuper]

The TRE on my Ralt/Hayabusa tells the ECU it's in 5th gear all the time for two reasons; to unrestrict power in the lower gears & it disables the top speed limiter because it doesn't see 6th gear, (which is when the speed limiter kicks in). I would guess the 1K engines work the same. Before I installed the TRE I couldn't go any faster in 6th than 5th because of the limiter.

[Mark H]

<----What about this guy? Or is he with Sean?