Are we going down the Ticketmaster path?

[Dave Harmison]

When someone offers me something for nothing, or pays me for the privelege of doing something for me, I like to understand the business model a bit.

Blackhawk Valley Region sent me the entry for their double regional at BHF. I can save $20 by using online entry through DLB Racing. Cuious about who this might be, I googled DLB Racing and got this hit:

http://www.scca.org/garage/forum/for...ID=3170&KW=DLB

I think online entry is a good thing, but I'd feel better if the club was doing it or buying the application as opposed to paying fees. Here's why.

BVR is cutting my entry by $20. If I believe the SCCA Forum, BVR is paying $300 ($150 per sanction # times two sanction numbers) to DLB plus 3.2% to process credit cards or $9.44 per entry.

If we want to do electronic entry, why not just send out Excel based entry forms and write a simple macro to strip off the pertinant data for T&S, etc. and handle the money the old way?

Here's my concern: Years ago, there was no TicketMaster. You wanted to put on a show, you paid someone to design and print the tickets, paid someone to man the phone to sell the tickets. Then came TicketMaster. They came along and offered a one stop shopping experience for the promoter. "Look" they said, "you don't have to do any work. And we'll get paid by tacking on a service charge that the buyer pays us in addition to the ticket price, so you don't even have to show the cost increase in your advertised price".

Some promoters took this and others didn't. So TicketMaster decided to up the game. They went to the stadium and auditorium owners and said "We'll give you some money if you make it mandatory for promoters that use your venue to use TicketMaster". The venue owner made money, and TicketMaster made money, and the ticket buyer wound up paying what amounts to a 20% TicketMaster tax.

I can see it as being very easy for the race tracks to get sucked into this and in five years tell us "You have to use XYZ Racing registration in order for us to make sure everyone is registered". And we'll pay a 20% entry tax to XYZ.

I'm not saying this is what anyone is planning, I'm just saying it looks like a familiar business model that's been used before.

I'd feel much better if the club owned the application.

[John Nesbitt]

I am not too concerned about getting 'captured' by DLB. Worst case, regions can revert to their former paper systems. It is worth more than the amount you describe for the regions to offload the processing on to DLB.

The problem with DLB, and other online systems, is that they are standalone. So, the region still needs to extract the information somehow from DLB in order to load it into their T&S system etc. (Of course, the T&S systems are proprietary as well.) We lose the benefits of automating the front-end to the weekend.

What we need is an end-to-end solution that provides for registration, tech, T&S, and feeds to the divisional and national pointskeeping and licence-tracking systems. That would be useful.

[EYERACE]

1. good points......is topeka listening or planning something for the future? doubt it - it was easier to get online up and rolling by letting someone else do it rather tha ngoing to the trouble of doing it ourselves

2. if you saw my post yesterday maybe this next thought is later part of it........we'll all register through RAPE......Racers Acting Protecting Everybody

[steve kramer]

The question that needs to be asked in this forum is why SCCA National did not lead the development of this process for the regions? Maybe include it as a service with the sanction fee. DLB is a for profit entitiy that makes the service avialable to the regions, from what I understand. There is a value to the region for handling this work. Why wasn't it kept within the club?

[Dave Harmison]

I got an offer from an official to talk off-line. This seems to be a repeating method to respond to member questions.

Sounds like George Bush, "You can talk to my people, but in private, not under oath, no transcript".

And the BoD wonders why I don't trust them or feel like this is really a club run for the benefit of the members?

[RussMcB]

The question that needs to be asked in this forum is why SCCA National did not lead the development of this process for the regions? Maybe include it as a service with the sanction fee. DLB is a for profit entitiy that makes the service avialable to the regions, from what I understand. There is a value to the region for handling this work. Why wasn't it kept within the club?

I'm inclined to agree. Since all races need registration and other (automated) processes, there could be some benefits from a national-led effort. However, I do want to bring up the point that the Club can't do everything. There are some things that the Club deems it better to hire someone to do. I'm sure there are many examples of the Club paying for services rather than do it in house.

Personally, I've enjoyed the DLB registration. It has been a very positive step forward, IMO.

[M.Sauce]

SCCA National does have its own on-line registration through Avectra.They are using it for the Runoffs this year.It will ultimately when it is finally perfected be available to Regions for race and solo entries but even that still costs money.
Dave H. I understand many think the leadership of this club is not interested in answering their questions but I don't believe that is true.You ask if the club really is run for the members?I believe that many years ago when we many less challenges to deal with and no competition this club was run by the few for the few.But I don't believe that has been true for many years.We have gone to great lengths to make the entire operation more transparent.I can't think of any subject other than litagation,contract negotiations or member privacy issues that we cannot discuss with our members at large.We really are trying to make this a better club for all of our members.We have no control over the local politcal or personal issues within this club.Call your director and fire away.

[RussMcB]

Mike, I think one thing that rubs many people wrong is when a question is asked in a public forum and the frequest response from an SCCA official is that they'll be happy to answer it privately.

[carnut169]

Hey, DLB saw an opportunity to fill a need with a service that works. God bless em... its the American way.

Even if it does end up costing us a bit more I've seen 1st hand what has happened since DLB came on the scene here in Atlanta... we went from a test-day line (could be an hour), a registration line (usually an hour), and a tech line (not typ long) to 1 line for everything that has yet to be longer than 15min.
I look at the 2hr time savings as worth every penny of the small extra expense.

As an added benefit we get 1 site to look at supps, schedule, drivers... even weather for every event in which we want to participate.


The only thing I'd like to see fixed is the required Paypal (now you want to talk about getting yanked) payment at the time of registration. I'd rather see it hit a few days prior to the event giving us the opportunity to withdraw before the $$ gets sucked out.

[Rick Kirchner]

The real question is:

Now that it's been developed, should the club buy the software and run it on it's own servers, or continue to use the services of a vendor. The latter is probably not bad until the vendor gets the idea that he's running the show (see Ticketmaster comments above). A good contract is very important here.

[Stan Clayton]

I got an offer from an official to talk off-line. This seems to be a repeating method to respond to member questions.

Sounds like George Bush, "You can talk to my people, but in private, not under oath, no transcript".

And the BoD wonders why I don't trust them or feel like this is really a club run for the benefit of the members?

I think you are being unfair, Dave. In fact, this looks a lot like the online version of "ambush journalism" to me. If you want a nuanced answer to a complex question, pick up your phone and have a 10-minute conversation with the person concerned. Accusing Club officials of some sort of subterfuge because they won't take hours to engage in online exchanges is just ridiculous, in my not-so-humble opinion. Stan

[SStadel]

I think DLB is great and yes it is the American way to build a better mousetrap and then charge for it. Years ago I made a suggestion that we have a bar code on our license or membership card and swipe it at registration. If you had completed everything prior to that (on-line or paper) you were handed a tech sheet and sent on your way. They would have a wet signature on file on a waiver in Topeka that covered all events for that calendar year at all tracks. Probably too simple, maybe too complex!

[Dave Harmison]

I'll stand by my post and thank Stan for his support. I don't think I ambushed anyone. I asked a public question. I believe sunshine is a very good thing.

And thank Mr. Kirchner for your support. Exactly my point that the Ticketmaster model could lead to someone else calling the shots.

Good to hear from Mike Sauce. What's interesting about the "lead by national" effort is that if you follow the link back to the Convention forum, no one mentions it. That thread is all about how the presentation at the convention was a real sell-job for DLB. Your answer makes me feel much better that we have control.

Let me say that I registered on DLB this morning for the BVR Firecrack Regional. I was surprised and delighted that I had the option of sending a check in the mail. This had not been my eariler experience. I have some personal heart-burn with using PayPal.

I am still confused by BVR's business model, but I'll try to discuss that at the track if I can find the right person and the time. After all, I am going there to race my FF in the second round of the EWC.

[carnut169]

I think DLB is great and yes it is the American way to build a better mousetrap and then charge for it. Years ago I made a suggestion that we have a bar code on our license or membership card and swipe it at registration. If you had completed everything prior to that (on-line or paper) you were handed a tech sheet and sent on your way. They would have a wet signature on file on a waiver in Topeka that covered all events for that calendar year at all tracks. Probably too simple, maybe too complex!

Great idea! (or so it seems...)

I have to admit that I use Paypal as well... its so damm easy and free to the payer. The payee has to take the fees in the shorts. Perhaps a discount for sending in a check would be fair.

The more I think about DLB the more I feel we should let it be. The price seems fair- the guy has worked very closely with the regions and the scca to be sure he had a product that works. He thought of it, wrote the software, sold it, and now services and updates it. For us to say we could do it ourselves to save a little $$ now that he has done the work and proven its effectivness would not be right.

IF he started upping the costs that would be a different story.

[Robert J. Alder]

For what it's worth, I've talked with a vintage club who recently comparison shopped very hard and then selected DLB to do their on-line stuff. As a result, I've had conversations with that club about their decision making process and then I talked with the principal at DLB about being a provider for our club's (RMVR) going to on-line registration+.

Seems that DLB did indeed, as suggested in this thread. see a need and then filled. it. Plus, they are apparently being very successful. Yes, they want to capture the market for on-line race registration, just like AMB captured the transponder market. But. . .that's not a bad thing. Universal AMB has been terrific.

I was also struck with the apparent flexibility of DLB to working with customers at, in this case, the individual customer-club level. Very responsive to "How do you want it to work" type discussions. And their pricing was very reasonable given the possible savings to the club for streamlining registration et al. Not to mention the benefit to members (ease of getting registered.)

At this point, I'd suggest that DLB seems a far better deal than trying to do it in-house. Yes, they could later "hold us up", but.... that doesn't seem to be a driving risk to me.

[Rick Kirchner]

There's hidden risk/unforseen consequenses in all this technology. You have to take reasonable measures to protect yourself down the road.

For instance, yes, AMB has been a great thing - unless you bought a rechargeable unit. The AMB technology is easily copied, so they employed a physical method of restricting access to it, and as a result, you can't easily change the battery when it no longer holds a charge.

Was this somethign anyone thought of when AMB was solidifying their market? Noooo. Do they offer a reasonable exchange program? - nooooo.

And don't get me started on those #$%^ at HANS.....

It always looks good at first, but unfettered, things have a habit of going bad in a hurry.

Any of you guys live in a small town with a Wall-mart and a Home Depot? If you do, ya better like what they sell because there will be almost nobody else left to buy from.

[KelleyHux]

As an event registar, DLBRacing is very good to work with. MVRG (Missouri Valley Race Group - DMVR and Nebraska Regions) just went to on-line registration this year. We were one of the last race groups in our division to go on-line, but after talking to many drivers last summer, no one could give me any good reasons to NOT go to on-line registration.

I've done one event so far, with another one coming up at the end of July. It has been most appreciated by our drivers. Donovan Brown spent the better part of an afternoon on the phone with me ensuring that our first event was set up exactly as I wanted it. I requested some additional reporting, and it was met with very good turnaround time.

One thing we do differently than many other regions is to display the entry list by race group, rather than just by class. I think it makes it easier for the racers to know who else is on the track with them, not just in their class.

As far as the charges for the system go, I think they're very reasonable. We didn't immediately go to on-line registration when it was rolled out to so many over the past two years due to the fee structure. When an east-coast region could conduct a weekend with triple the number of entries for less charge that what it would cost us to do our weekend, we felt it was time to look at the system pricing structure. Donovan listened to us "little guys" and the pricing structure was revised. It is now more reasonable for those of us not blessed with population density.

As far as taking credit cards, you're going to pay some sort of credit card acceptance fee anyway, so we've passed the costs along to the drivers in the form of an entry fee increase. Given that over 65% of our drivers paid with credit card before the event, I would say our drivers feel it is worth it. In fact, it was a number of drivers who encouraged us to just increase the entry and go to on-line registration.

We do still accept the paper entry forms and checks, so if you want to mail me a check, that's okay. If you want to bring me a check to the track, that's okay too. I prefer you enter yourself on-line, but some guys just aren't techno-geeks. They'd rather work on their race car than spend time on the internet. That's fine, send me via snail mail, fax, phone, or whatever enough information to get you entered, and I'll put you on the list. Perhaps we could/should consider a discount for checks, but that's something the race group board would need to discuss.

We don't charge a late fee unless you show up at the track unannounced (i.e. you haven't called, faxed, emailed, etc - heck I've even allowed PMs from message boards before - not my 1st choice, but it's about customer service). Our late fee is $40, so it's kinda steep, but I can't get the race group to drop the fee, so I work with it as best as I can.

Eventhough this conversation is mostly centered around the benefits for the drivers/entrants, there are also many benefits for the registrar and the region's processes. I'm quickly learning how to tool some of the things I do to get ready for an event to fit better with the outputs from the on-line system.

Okay - I've rambled long enough. If you have questions, don't hesitate to let me know.

Kelley Huxtable
"PLAY SAFE"
DMVR
Chief Registrar - MVRG