Increase Minimum Weight

[Zebra]

Being fat and round as I am I think the moment I fall off the ski I will turn into a huge menacing snow ball that will crush the town below and roll all the way to Iowa

Charles Finelli

[Beartrax]

Refer to: http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20761
"You better watch out, those fat boys stopped drinking for 2 weeks to get into shape for the season!"
"yeah chuck now looks like mary-kate olsen and thom, well, he's still "pleasantly plump" but at least he's finally gotten over the shakes......"

Charles, So what happened? Was Doug telling tall tales or dreaming?
From what I saw, the get in shape plan was out the window at the Daytona party!


Just a skinny twerp busting you back. Let me drive your car, we'll see how fast it can go with 155lbs in it.

[DaveW]

As for me taking up another sport that is not very sporting now is it. I am here playing with you guys in my first year of auto racing in my life, enjoying myself and everyone else and now I am told to take up another sport. This question of mine arose last night when I read an Apex thread that pointed out the huge time discrepency 30lbs adds. The simple question that I asked has not gotten an adequate answer just simply "the cars weigh what they weigh because that is what they weigh and always weighed that weight and in no way is it changing"

Charles Finelli
Having fun

I weigh ~165 and I have ~25-lb of ballast in my car to make the 1190-lb. minimum. When the Aluminum head (rumored to be worth ~10 HP more) becomes available, it will weigh 10-20 lb less than the present cast iron head. In addition, there will be a 25-lb weight penalty to run it. That means ~40-lb more ballast (in addition to my present 20-lb) to be added to my car. Other than having the 0.090" Aluminum floor pan replaced with a stainless steel pan,it will be VERY hard to safely attach that much more ballast.

At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, I don't agree that the majority of FC owner/drivers should have to add weight to their cars (costs money, may be unsafe, will make the cars slower) to allow a few drivers to compete at the same weight.

I've been fighting a lack of funding all my racing career. Does that mean that it should be illegal to spend over $30,000/year to compete (I'd sure like that!)? It'll never happen! Some things will never be totally equal. That's just the nature of racing. Someone always has an advantage, and others don't. That's just the way it is, and always will be.

[Zebra]

Agreed, but I do like to have large fields, and Maybe just maybe, from Karting on up we are not encouraging bigger drivers to show up. I am beginning to believe it is the karting world that is weeding out our future. When I was in highschool many years back I worked at Joe Stimola for free just to be near the cars, I weighed about 160-170 as a freshman quickly went up to graduation weight of 185 and 6'0" and I was solid no fat but luckily we had Formula Ford. Now if you were that size forget it, the karting world encourages light weight and therefore you are cutting a large portion of the population from playing with us.

[LenFC11]

and 5' 6" 140 lbs kids are not line backers

[Dave Belz]

and 5' 6" 140 lbs kids are not line backers

I was as a HS freshman, at 122 pounds! One opposing RB actually told a teammate that I was "mean little &%$#@!"!

Dave

[Zebra]

Exactly!!!!! So you all now understand the difference. We are a powered sport, we win by intelligence coupled with eye hand coordination, engineering, logistics and planning, physical fitness is also key but not all important. We are not dependant on our physical size or muscle, we rely on intelligence across the board, very interesting sport just like sailing, unlike sailing we seem to feel that unatural weight should be a factor when it should not.
Look, my time has come and gone in this sport, ask anyone who has raced with me, I just love doing it, period. I do feel that we should address the weight issue starting with karting, they are weeding out a large portion of talent that we could use to boost our numbers.

Charles Finelli
Over the Hill Racer with NO delusions of granduer

[Douglas Kniffin]

How about a new rule...

Someone must at least win a regional before the whine about rules?

Until then you have no rights to comment on rules. I like that.

[R. Pare]

Exactly!!!!! We are a powered sport, we win by intelligence coupled with eye hand coordination, engineering, logistics and planning, physical fitness is also key but not all important.

Under the "physical fitness" part add a subsection: Getting to your personal minimum weight.

If you were 185 just after high school, you should be able to get back down to 200 without too much trouble. Try pushing away from the table a few minutes earlier each meal.

Under the "engineering" part, add a subsection: Getting the car to it's minimum weight.

All cars can lose weight, especially the VDs - it just depends on how smart you are, and whether or not you are willing to spend the money. If you aren't willing, then go bitch elsewhere!

In '94 we built a car for Lou Cooper II ( one of the first 5 of that model year). Lou weighed 240+ at the time. With a bit of work on our part, he found he had to put in 12 pounds of ballast to make minimum weight - and that was when the minimum was 25 pounds less.
Lou is now down to 170 pounds (and still 6'2"), and if he has his old car, he would need 82 pounds of ballast!

Quit whining and get to work!

[Zebra]

Someone should finish a pro race before chimming

[Zebra]

My 1st question for the class is: ARE WE GROWING?????? if yes skip next question.

If no. Why Not???

Guys its not about me its about the class, its is in severe decline!!! If a normal american guy shows up and is told what you told me he goes somewhere else.

[Douglas Kniffin]

Our lack of growth has nothing to do with fat old guys who aren't competitive being at a dissadvantage in the sport.

Changing the sport to make it so fat old slow guys have a better chance to be competitive is not going to grow the sport either.

[BGilkes]

Doug,
Don't be so harsh on yourself mate... you aren't that big!!
Brent

[Douglas Kniffin]

How are things in the sun? Ready to go racing? The date is creaping up!

[BGilkes]

Sun??? Looking out my window there is a blizzard going on.
Move south tomorrow morning.
Sandy/Eric are wrapping the engine up this week... they turned it around remarkably quickly for me after some Canadian confusion, so all things being well I will at VIR with you blokes next month assuming I can tear myself away from the beach.

[Stan Clayton]

Formula Altantic is what I am thinking. Sorry guys 3 or 4 of us will switch to the 014 Atlantic. Probably more cost effective since the whizzy bit war is heating up in FC and the cost in light weight parts is going to get crazy for me to get competitive.

Charles Finelli

Charles,

Based on my experience running both Swift 008's and 014's, at your weight you will not be anywhere near minimum in one of those cars either. A 185 lbs driver? Yes. A 240 driver? No way. However, the minimum weight for FE cars (formerly known as the F-SCCA cars) is high enough that a 240 lbs driver can make minimum weight in a basic car (no add-ons), so you might look at that instead of an Atlantic. The FE cars perform about the same or a little better than an FC, (180+ hp at 1265 lbs versus 140+ hp at 1190 lbs - or 1250-ish in your case?).

Regards, Stan

[Daryl DeArman]

Changing the sport to make it so fat old slow guys have a better chance to be competitive is not going to grow the sport either.

Obviously you haven't looked at the demographics of the SCCA lately!

FAT, OLD and SLOW are all relative

I am not fat by anyone's definition, but could lose a few pounds (6'1"-175#)

Old--again relative--my daughter and her friends think 38 is old.

Slow--not for me to say.

I would welcome a reasonable increase in weight to any class if it helps the "fatter" come closer to making weight as a subsequent addition of ballast on my car will still be an advantage to me for obvious reasons.

[Zebra]

Brent, I hope you started out at a tanning salon before showing up at the beach, all that canadian mid-winter sun must have had you burnt to a crisp. Looking forward to getting together. As for Doug he is certainly old and a few other things.

Charles FInelli
Fat Old And Sloooow

[HazelNut]

ok so i went over to chuck's (zebra) place tonight and we did some brainstorming. I gotta say his argument for the minimum increase is pretty good. In fact he swayed me to his side. As such we came up with a few ways to help the thinner up and comming "superflyweight" go karters make the new increased minimum wieght without having to place ballast anyplace on the car itself.

These products are all SFI and FIA certified and can be purchased form your local dealer already!

[HazelNut]

and yes this is HANS's compatible!

[HazelNut]

in fact i heard McDonough went on a super crash diet this winter to get well below mimimum AND he got a new custom lid to match his fancy new suit from last year!!!!!!!!!

[HazelNut]

FYI matt's decided that the new slimmed down look will also allow him to ad a new facet to his racing prowess for next season and will also be a "Racing Spokesmodel".

To help get his new career rolling we hired him to do some promo shots for fatboy racing this winter!!!

[HazelNut]

and of course not o be outdone. I've commision (on behalf of the fatboys) a helmet for this season as well!

[Zebra]

Brenden you forgot to mention Patent Pending so for you Engineer types who are so apt at stealing each others design. DO NOT GET ANY FUNNY IDEAS, this invention is mine all mine, I am a wealthy miser (Quoted from Daffy Duck/Bugs Bunny) and for those of you who remember that quote we are then the old geezer crowd.

Charles Finelli
Attorney so don't get any funny ideas

[dc]

I do believe this thread has run it's course...