Head and Neck Restraints

[JHandley]

Hey all
I bought a Simpson Super Bandit. Any one think it will be a problem with the HANS?

[D.T. Benner]

So much depends on how you sit in the car and how long your NECK is?

[formulasuper]

IIRC, almost any helmet w/o a chin spoiler will work. I have a Simpson voyager that works fine with the HANS. And, BTW, the large eyeport is mostly above where it would help with seeing the dash - I have ~the upper half of my visors taped over...

Just a side note to first time visor tapers; if you're racing at a track that uses a banked oval as part of the track you may not want to tape the upper part of the visor. I found that when on the banking it is difficult to look up far enough to see very far ahead on the track even with no tape.

[anthonywill3]

My paddock mate and arch rival has an R-3. When he first got it several months ago, he liked it pretty well, but we haven't discussed it lately. I think I answered a similar question and relayed his first impressions back in March or so of this year.

Ted:
Have you gotten any more feedback from your padock mate with the R-3??

[Ted Idlof]

Ted: Have you gotten any more feedback

Here's what he said:

[SIZE=2]
It has worked great for me, very comfortable if you form your seat around it. The only thing that is kind of annoying is that sometimes the top part of the brace touches my helmet. I asked the engineer about it and he said that he would basically cut about an inch of the top of the brace and re-epoxy it if I wanted (no charge). The device is still 100% functional so I have not bothered to have it modified.
I did have some problems with the people taking orders and shipping the product so be careful. I had them deliver mine UPS Sat delivery (extra
$$$$) so I could use it on a Sunday. They forgot to include the helmet D-rings, so it was basically useless. I asked for a shipping refund several times and they agreed to give me a refund but never did.
There was an R-3 for sale in "The Wheel" for a long time, it might still be in there.
[/SIZE]

The Wheel is the SCCA San Fran Region rag.

[anthonywill3]

Thanks Ted.
I tried on a friends HANS (thanks Len) this past saturday at the track, and I don't think it is viable for me. It pushed my head forward/down because the back of it is right up against my headrest and helmet (I am 6'1" and I drive a 97VD). Just wasnt comfortable like that. I also like that the R3 is not dependant on the belts to keep my head on in a crash. Guess I will have to order one and try it.

[LenFC11]

tony

no problem. do you have room if we were to make a seat for you that would slide you forward a bit to give you more room behind seat for clearnce of HANS. I think i am going to try to get in your car next time to see the diffence. once i'm belted in i dont notice the HANS device at all

len

[racer27]

I agree with Len, in most FC cars, you can get a Model 30 to work. It may require remolding a new seat or repositioning driver (Plan on moving your belt mounts). However, I see no issue with exlporing others such as the R3 or the Issacs.

[anthonywill3]

tony

no problem. do you have room if we were to make a seat for you that would slide you forward a bit to give you more room behind seat for clearnce of HANS. I think i am going to try to get in your car next time to see the diffence. once i'm belted in i dont notice the HANS device at all

len

I dont think I have any room left. it might be worth a shot though. Now that I am getting more comfortable in the car, I will probably be doing a new seat anyway. The problem I think I may have is if I am sittting anymore upright (moved my back forward to give more clearance behind head), I will be sitting too upright (not comfortable), and my head might too high in relation to the roll hoop. I will have to screw around some more with seating position.

Also just found out I have to fly out to Houston on Thursday, Steph had a death in the family today (her Uncle- mother's brother) and we wont be home until late Sat night, so we wont be seeing you guys Saturday (bummed)....

[emotepix]

Seems to me like the Hans, Hutchins, and R3 all go for around the thousand dollar mark, way more expensive than the Simpson.

Aren't they all certified the same?

So a new manufacturer gets in on the act, tries to underprice the others, finds out, what? that either it costs a lot to R&D/cerfify the thing, or that's what the market will bear, and so joins in the fray? Many choices, same price?

[anthonywill3]

I agree with Len, in most FC cars, you can get a Model 30 to work. It may require remolding a new seat or repositioning driver (Plan on moving your belt mounts). However, I see no issue with exlporing others such as the R3 or the Issacs.

That is the other thing, I would have to redo the mounts (way more than 3" apart). I would really like to try out the R3 becuase it is independent of the belts...
The ISAAC is a really good system, a lot of guys that I ran tin-tops with love it, but the SFI thing only leaves me 2 choices- HANS or R3..

[Gregg Baker]

Seems to me like the Hans, Hutchins, and R3 all go for around the thousand dollar mark, way more expensive than the Simpson.

Aren't they all certified the same?

So a new manufacturer gets in on the act, tries to underprice the others, finds out, what? that either it costs a lot to R&D/cerfify the thing, or that's what the market will bear, and so joins in the fray? Many choices, same price?

They are all tested on the same crash sleds, usually either Wayne State Bioengineering Center or Delphi.



The price difference is for the SFI sticker, which has nothing to do with how well the product performs. You can pay ~$1K for an R3 from one of the large distributors, or $295 for an Isaac Link that works nearly twice as well.

If your sanctioning body forces you to use an "SFI certified" product, you get to pay a premium for the SFI logo.

[rcharles]

The Issac website is not entirely clear on how you get in and out of this device. Do you have to undo the belts then undo the Issac from the belts to get out of the car?

Thanks

[planet6racing]

No, the Isaac pins to your helmet. Simply pull the pins and you are completely free of the device. Once in practice, it takes approximately 1 second to go from the Camlock on the belts to full removal of the pins. It took me far longer to find my radio connection last time I needed to emergency egress my Saturn!

[Gregg Baker]

The Issac website is not entirely clear on how you get in and out of this device. Do you have to undo the belts then undo the Issac from the belts to get out of the car?

Thanks

Try the video at the bottom of this page: http://isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPag...tructions.html

[Gary Smith]

Duplicate.

[Gary Smith]

My motorcycle buddy and soon-to-be Zetec FA racer, Jay Olson and I attended the PRI Trade Show today.
(See http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=19893&page=2 ).
We were lucky enough to have a long conversation w/ Trevor Ashline, President of LFT--Safety Solutions, the maker of the R3 H & N device. www.lfttech.com Check it out. Trevor's a great guy, and what an expert!

Jay and I were in the market for head and neck restraint devices, as Jay just bought an '02 VD Zetec from 10 Tenths last week after my son, Justin, bought a VD FC last month--all of which forced me to face all Hell and my wife by buying an '02 VD FC this week and coming out of retirement.

It should be informative that Jay and I both bought the R3 on the spot. We concluded it was superior to the Hans, and at $995 including the helmet anchors and the quick release tethers, a better buy. The quick release tethers are $69 extra for the Hans, the helmet anchors are extra, and the gel pads to help keep the seat belts from sliding off the shouders are extra.


The R3 claims to have minimized the belts coming off the shoulder problem. The website has some convincing test comparisons.

Merry XMas

[Robert Mumm]

I heard a rumor the R3 is no longer certified. You may want to check on it before you buy.

[hbennett]

My motorcycle buddy and soon-to-be Zetec FA racer, Jay Olson and I attended the PRI Trade Show today.
(See http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=19893&page=2 ).
We were lucky enough to have a long conversation w/ Trevor Ashline, President of LFT--Safety Solutions, the maker of the R3 H & N device. www.lfttech.com Check it out. Trevor's a great guy, and what an expert!

Jay and I were in the market for head and neck restraint devices, as Jay just bought an '02 VD Zetec from 10 Tenths last week after my son, Justin, bought a VD FC last month--all of which forced me to face all Hell and my wife by buying an '02 VD FC this week and coming out of retirement.

It should be informative that Jay and I both bought the R3 on the spot. We concluded it was superior to the Hans, and at $995 including the helmet anchors and the quick release tethers, a better buy. The quick release tethers are $69 extra for the Hans, the helmet anchors are extra, and the gel pads to help keep the seat belts from sliding off the shouders are extra.


The R3 claims to have minimized the belts coming off the shoulder problem. The website has some convincing test comparisons.

Merry XMas

No. The helmet anchors are included with every HANS Device and the pads have nothing to do with anything other than comfort in a few instances. They go under the device. Did you come by the HANS booth?

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[Gary Smith]

Yes, Howard, we did go by the booth and discussed the device. I was told by the attendant that the quick release was $69 extra, which it turms out was way off. Also, it was my incorrect understanding gained elsewhere that the hardware was extra. As for the pads, this thread, itself, has suggestions that the gel pads make a difference.

With respect to the Hans, its loyal usage, and your affiliation, I made another well-researched choice of the R3 and think I can share it here, as the forum is for open discussion and opinions. Thanks for correcting the part about the anchors, as they are provided w/ the Prof. Series. My point, though, is correct about the quick release tether as the Hans website lists it for $105 extra , as does SafeRacer.com on sale at $105 from $119.

To update my earlier post, I learned that Safety Solutions is updating the Formula model by shortening the neck extension to reduce issues discussed here with H & N devices in regard to interference w/ the headrest. Also, they are changing from 2" to 3" chest belts.

Hope this clarifies.

[carnut169]

Although I think the Hans is a great product I do have a slight issue w/ it...

It hits the headrest and forces my head forward. During the last race weekend I had to withdraw from Sunday's race due to a HORRIBLE neck ache. I wonder if its the high g's combined with an abnormal head position. I've never had a neck problem like this before.
The Isaac does not have the issue but don't want to spend the $$ is the club is going to require the single release. I also worry about being unconsious and the track workers being confused about the release.

R3 just looks like it would be uncomfortable unless you wore it while your seat was poured.

I need to eithor buy an Isaac, make another seat that pushes me another 4" forward (not the best solution) or consider the R3.

Best news is that even a slightly used Hans can be sold for what the others cost new...

[hbennett]

Gary, Great, we're glad that you are using something. The QD tethers are $105 if you buy them separate. If you purchase the device with the QD tethers, it adds $65 to to cost of the device with the standard tethers. The anchors are provided with any device, Pro or not. Pads are a personal choice. Some like the standard foam, some like the gel.

Carnut, I would like to know a little more about your situation. Which model do you have? What is your body type? Where did you get your device and when? You can call me direct if you like (888) 426-7999.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[Gregg Baker]

The Isaac does not have the issue but don't want to spend the $$ is the club is going to require the single release.

The Club has never required "single release" H&N restraints. That whole concept is going the way of the Dodo bird.

I also worry about being unconsious and the track workers being confused about the release.

Professional EMTs prefer to leave as much in the car as possible, and they will tell you they are more concerned about all the other items connected to helmet. Typical response is, "I give everything a quick look. If I can't disconnect all of it in about two seconds, I start cutting."

[Gary Smith]

Hi Sean:
I'll try to keep my helmet strap on during qualifying this go 'round when you're out there.

In re. the hump and molded seat issue on the H & N devices, I was prepared to have a new molded seat done w/ my driver's suit and Safety Solutions R3 back pack on. But, I was really impressed to see that the unit comes with a full size back pad made out of a dense foam cell material with a u-shaped cut-out for the carbon fiber back unit to nestle in. I'm going to have the new seat mold done with that pad in place. One reason is that it keeps the back pack firmly in place, and another is the possible extra safety edge provided by the pad.

Regards to all you guys,
Gary

[Purple Frog]

First off, please realize that I'm biased. I have one of those HANS t-shirts you never want to get. And most of you have heard my rant after the 2005 Runoffs, which OBTW I just repeated what DaveW ranted at me before the 2005 season. (Dave, the Mrs and I thank you again.)

I'm not bias enough to say you have to get a HANS. But use something.

My experience:

I have never felt like I needed the quick release when driving a formula car. More straps dangling around with the already existing radio cords, mic cords, camera cords, and tequila drink tubes just makes for more confusion in the cockpit. Most of the guys I strap into tin tops have quick releases.

Besides, I run with the tethers a bit shorter than 'stock'. Not sure there's room for the release hardware...

In the two cars that I have used the HANS, yes I have had to modify or remove the original head rests. I also had to move shoulder strap mounts closer together. I looked at Sean's arrangement and think the fix isn't too big a deal. Sean is a better judge of that.

I pour foam seats with the HANS on.

I have not seen the need for gel pads. I do know that Marshall Aiken, because of a previously broken and badly mended collar bone, used gel pads to cushion the scarred area. But for the most part, if you install the belts per the HANS recommendation what I found is that I 'feel' the shoulder straps a lot less with the HANS. Before the HANS, I was mistakenly holding myself down with the shoulder straps. We now know that is not a good idea.

HANS will not advertise nor promote this following thought. But some of us that have either been participants in an inverted landing, or had cars land on top of us, have probably benefitted from an aspect of the HANS design. That is when a lot of weight is pushing the helmet toward your shoulders, at least in my case and one other I know of, the helmet bottom transfers the weight of that load to the HANS and keeps from putting an extreme compression on the neck. It wasn't designed with that in mind, but I think it is an added benefit.

Like i said before. Maybe it doesn't have to be HANS, but use something.

I checked out the SS R3 at PRI. I can understand why sane folks would buy it. There possibly is more than one type of mouse trap out there.

Remember when the device will be asked to do it's job your back will probably be no where near the seat and your chest may be pretty deflated from belt pressure, so the dynamics of fit need to be considered in that hairy circumstance, not when you are motionless and just sitting in a show room. my 2 cents.

[kea]

Nicely put Mr. Frog!

[Ted Idlof]

hey Frog, how short are your tethers? and why?

helmet bottom transfers the weight of that load to the HANS and keeps from putting an extreme compression on the neck.

I also believe that is a big plus to the HANS. I use that point in trying to educate track day students about the trade-offs of a 6 point harness and HANS in street legal cars without full cages.

and tequila drink tubes

Ha, I'd a guessed you'd be a moonshine con-a-sur.

[Purple Frog]

Rapidly approaching sixty and most of those years were pretty abusive on the body. So I talked to Jim Downing one day at the track. I said, "Jim, if I set the tethers to the length you specify, it hurts my old neck to just practice stretch that far even without the stretch that will be in the tethers, will it hurt if I shorten them a bit?" Totally off the record, and in no way associated with HANS, etc., etc., he sort of said yeah.

I was running them shorter at the Runoffs in 2005.

An advantage is that in long sweepers (carosel at Road America) I can cock my helmet slightly to the right and the tethers carry it's weight in the turn.