Fuel/gas plea

[Michael Rand]

To all entrants in the 40th.
I have received several calls of concern regarding the much discussed gas and rocket fuel issue for all FF's at this event.
No less a luminary than Jay Ivey has expressed the sincere hope that the increasingly common practice of people using the $50/gallon rocket fuel won't be prevalent at the event.
It seems there are a great many who agree with Jay, the promoters and the Region among them.
But the idea of dictating one fuel over anpother has far to many implications to get your arms around. If we say track fuel the avgas advocates will scream, with good reason, cost is significantly higher for track Cam 2. So the decision was made, by the organizing committe some time ago, to stick with GCR legal fuel, opening the door to the rocket fuel. Apparently at the June Sprints it started with one or 2 entrants and as soon as 1 or 2 run it it spreads like wildfire in the need to be competitive.
We all recognize that "Gentlemens Agreements" to NOT use C-44, or whatever concoction is chosen, never work out. As the reknown FF driver Tom Davey once stated succinctly, "Gentlemen don't race Formula Fords".
Once the laughter subsides, this is a plea from the organizing committee, engine builders and entrants to use any GCR legal fuel EXCEPT C-44/other rocket fuel.
In the interest of going public, I can state that the CF guys I have spoken to are clearly in the Cam 2/Avgas camp, in fact I am stating publicly that I will be using Cam 2 Purple 110.
If the need to win at all costs requires people to spend that kind of money to gain an advantage instead of racing on a leveler playing field, that would be unfortunate. It is all about the racing, after all.
So, here it is, PLEASE don't start the rocket gas deal. Maybe, just maybe, peer pressure will have the desired affect. I ask that anyone smelling rocket fuel, it is so obvious, make a public point of letting everyone know who those users are. Held up to public pressure, maybe it can be nipped in the bud.

[mark defer]

michael,
good luck with that.............

mark d

[Matt King]

I say you get some of these stickers and at least then the gentlemen who run Rocket Fuel will stand out by their absence. Kind of like the Scarlett Letter in reverse.

http://www.plainoldgas.com/

[Garey Guzman]

I say you get some of these stickers and at least then the gentlemen who run Rocket Fuel will stand out by their absence. Kind of like the Scarlett Letter in reverse.

http://www.plainoldgas.com/

Maybe something with a little kid hugging a tree! Or maybe an "X" across a skull in a helmet?

AvGas will be the only thing going into my cars.

[mike g.]

How about this? (go go microsoft clip art)

printed on a 3.5x5.5 typical oval sticker (like those UK, GB, DE, etc ones you see around)

[ric baribeault]

i don't know mike. i was thinking about using it so i might possibly get in the top 40......

[HazelNut]

i spent 2 years pumping that crap into a pinto FC, it is some seriously funky stuff.

A. it melts right through rubber gloves.
B. it absolutely stinks in the gas jug
C. if you think it stinks in the jug, wait till you smell it in an engine


as such anyone who uses it can be easily identified on the grid by the car directly behind it. The driver will A. be about ready to puke from the smell B. be barely able to see from the exhaust fumes

[Michael Rand]

Mike G, love the decal, I'll run them !

[formulasuper]

i spent 2 years pumping that crap into a pinto FC, it is some seriously funky stuff.

A. it melts right through rubber gloves.
B. it absolutely stinks in the gas jug
C. if you think it stinks in the jug, wait till you smell it in an engine


as such anyone who uses it can be easily identified on the grid by the car directly behind it. The driver will A. be about ready to puke from the smell B. be barely able to see from the exhaust fumes

One big benefit it has; it does discourage close drafting. Ever breath that stuff while following one using it? It will make your eyes burn enough to either back off or make a low percentage attemp to get by!

[mike g.]

Mike G, love the decal, I'll run them !

That was easy. Here you go!
I've seen CafePress stickers before and was happy with them, but they were just B&W.. I hear the color quality is good.

http://www.cafepress.com/antirocketfuel

If anyone has a witty text to put around it. let me know. It is surprisingly easy to do this...

[HazelNut]

That was easy. Here you go!
I've seen CafePress stickers before and was happy with them, but they were just B&W.. I hear the color quality is good.

http://www.cafepress.com/antirocketfuel

If anyone has a witty text to put around it. let me know. It is surprisingly easy to do this...

"rocket fuel is for flamers"

[Garey Guzman]

"Rocket fuel - Just Say NO!"

"I won't use Rocket Fuel"

"This car runs on AvGas!"

"I'd rather get beat than win with Rocket Fuel!"

"Rocket fuel is for squids who can't carry speed through a corner and because they can't be honest with themselves, figure everyone else MUST be cheating but the truth is that they just don't have the required skill set to drive thier car near its' maximum."

The last one may be a bit wordy....

[Joefisherff]

If you shoot fish in a barrel than rocket fuel is for you....

[thewarehouse]

Horsepower Growth Hormone

c'mon guys, you don't want to have to lie to congress!

[Rodney Jessen]

First I will apologize in advance for sounding cocky or arrogant but this is racing after all. I believe I am capable of winning I certainly wont be running in the back. I race because I like the competition the harder the better. Thats why I choose to race CF in the NW its a fast group. That means I like to win. I was very disappointed at the 35th in Vegas to watch an average driver (yes I said it we have it on video the guy would have been killed if he was running AV gas like all of us ) walk away from the rest of us.

Winning is important to some of us maladjusted soles thats why we race. I want to run AV gas but would have a hard time traveling across the country just to watch a repeat of the 35th and yes this person is coming again and says he and his team are gonna run fuel in CF.

I would consider running on av gas and wearing a decal if I was sure some real shame would stick to these guys. But in the end it might just sound like sour grapes as the score card will reflect a win.

So I am leaning towards buying CR 44 if i do you wont have to ask me I will at least have the guts to put a CR 44 sticker on my car.

Ether way I am looking forward with great anticipation to meet all my fellow CF drivers from all over America it will be a great celebration.

[Daryl DeArman]

Devil's advocate mode. Skip to the next post if you don't want to hear it.

In all my years of racing my viewpoint has always been to unload a LEGAL car off the trailer capable of winning. On one occasion that was not the case, and it will never happen again (legal and vastly underprepared). If I get my arse kicked in a race I want to know it was ME, not my equipment.

I am not about to invest all the time and money required to put together a 98% effort, when in this case the last 2% is so easy and makes a large difference.

For those who are there for the experience, to have a great time and don't care if they win or not, it shouldn't matter one iota if someone else out prepares you. You are one of the fortunate few who have matured to a point where you understand what it is all about and come home with a smile more often than not. I'm coming...but I'm not there yet.

I'd propose that those serious about winning this event run the AVGAS/Cam2 selection and keep the RF in the trailer. You won't need it if nobody else uses it. First person to use it, gets a swift kick in the nuts for being an arse and needlessly raising the bar. Perhaps someone needs to enter a moving chicane low buck effort just to, ummm, deal with the rocket fuel guy as he is about to be lapped. You know, take one for the team.

Personally, I feel about the same regarding sticker tires. If everyone left them in the trailer for main events, nobody would need them.

Enjoy the 40th, I hope it is a great event!

[TimW]

And the fragile male ego emerges...

[cooleyjb]

Now having an SRF in the garage where this is an issue as well I have my opinion on the matter.

If the fuel passes the SCCA test for fuel then it should be considered legal. You shouldn't think less of someone for using it. Afterall it is legal. I personally will never use it. I find the stuff utterly disgusting to be around. I would strongly prefer that others not use it as well.

In one sense how is it different from the guy running the DB-6 to the guy running the RF83. Or the guy running compomotives vs. the guy running the Kephart wheels. What about the guy who has a weak regional motor using the fuel to get the same level as the guys who are putting 12K into their engine to get the extra couple horsepower?

Please don't get pissed off, hate, or think less of someone for using every advantage that is available to them under the GCR.

All that being said. PLEASE don't use the stuff. All it will end up doing is forcing others to use it and then all of sudden we're all back on the same level with 40/gallon fuel vs. 8/gallon fuel or 3/gallon avgas.

[Daryl DeArman]

Cooleyjb,

You said it much better than I could/did.

[Daryl DeArman]

If I get my arse kicked in a race I want to know it was ME, not my equipment.

And the fragile male ego emerges...

Not sure how the above illustrates a fragile male ego

[Roland V. Johnson]

We will have 4 cars there on AvGas!

[RussMcB]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but trying to offer a small bit of help.

I think the best way to get everyone to agree not to use fuels that are legal is to come up with the right incentive(s), positive and/or negative.

The shame factor might do it, but from posts above (such as #15), it might not be enough. I admire Mike's proposal, but if it doesn't have 100% participation, a lot of people will be upset.

So, what can you do to reward those who comply with the gentleman's agreement? And/Or, how can you make the use of RF so undesirable that everyone will choose not to?

It sure is going to be a fantastic event. Wish I could be there. Hope it's fun for all.

[Rick Kirchner]

Could be easier than y'all think.

Declare your fuel - all cars to run a piece of duct tape declaring their fuel. Then have a separate set of classes:

FF CFF VFF for the guys running gas; FFF, FCF, and FVFF for the guys running C44. Three more trophies, much less bitchin'.

Too bad all this stuff gets in the way of the event. Too bad there isn't a way for the SCCA to run spectroscopy on C44, identify the nasty stuff, and outlaw the combinations that are both nasty and the ones that contribute to the HP.

[Daryl DeArman]

How about everyone shows up to pre grid "empty" with a 5 gal fuel jug of their favorite poison. Pole flips a coin, heads everyone keeps their stuff. Tails everyone hands their jug back 5 spots. If you know you only have a 50/50 chance of getting to run your stuff you probably aren't going to waste money on RF, at the same time you aren't likely to bring a 5 gal jug of water. Half kidding. If "we" don't like the current GCR fuel rule then we need to come up with something different and ENFORCEABLE.

[Charles Livingston]

Has RF been an issue at the runoffs?

[Marshall Mauney]

If "we" don't like the current GCR fuel rule then we need to come up with something different and ENFORCEABLE.

What do you not like about the new fuel rule proposal for next year? It seems that it would do exactly what you are suggesting - identify the bad stuff and outlaw it.

Has RF been an issue at the runoffs?

Runoffs supps specify the use of track fuel, so unless someone sneks some C-44 and/or SR-1 into the Road America tanks, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Michael Rand]

Quickshoe was referring to the current GCR fuel rule where C-44 etc is "legal", not the proposed new rule effective 1-1-2010.
From all accounts the new rule will indeed address RF as well as open up unleaded legality.
If we were doing the 41st anniversary in 2010 there wouldn't be this discussion at all.
But we are doing the 40th in 2009 under the current GCR.

[Garey Guzman]

For me, the bottom line is this - C44 is more harmful to me and any one that potentially has to deal with it. It's one thing to put myself in danger but to potentially put others - volunteers - in danger is not something I'm willing to do.

I want to win and I will be racing to win, no matter how slim my chances are. But I'll be racing with AvGas, giving others racing room, i.e. 1.5 hairs space, and helping my competitors with anything I can share.

While I respect honesty, I really don't have any respect for the "win-at-all-costs" types. After all, is winning an SCCA event going to make a driver immortal?

[Daryl DeArman]

I want to win and I will be racing to win, no matter how slim my chances are. But I'll be racing with AvGas.

That's great in theory, and ideally would be not only possible but probable. However, as soon as an otherwise equally prepared and driven car decides they need the good stuff for an extra couple of tenths all that's out the window.

Perhaps the reality will be that the front runners run avgas/Cam2 and the folks running the "rocket fuel" wouldn't win no matter what they put in the tank.

While I respect honesty, I really don't have any respect for the "win-at-all-costs" types. After all, is winning an SCCA event going to make a driver immortal?

Garey, there is absolutely zero shame in winning at all costs within the rules. If we don't like the rules we need to change them. If we aren't willing (morally, ethically, financially, or otherwise) to do everything possible within the rules to win, we can't hold it against those who do. We should accept that we took the "high road" and did more with less. Great satisfaction comes from doing so, but we can't take away from others who worked within the rules to gain every advantage possible.....it's the idea of preparing to win.

[Michael Rand]

Going back through this thread to post #15, Rodney Jessen's where he says he knows of an entrant from the NW who intends to run RF, how about peer pressure on him to attempt to prevent him from doing that ?
If you identify the individual then maybe some pressure from others might shame him into not using RF.
Of course, we will be able to identify him by exhaust and fuel fumes but better to nip it in the bud before the rot sets in.
So, who is it who you feel is forcing you, and likely others, to use RF ?

[formulasuper]

RF: race fuel or Rat Fink?

[Rodney Jessen]

Actually they are from California and I dont think peer pressure is gonna work and in reading all the posts in this section it obvious to me that the front runners will be on fuel which sucks. So I am gonna have to go buy a can. Event will still be great just more expensive for those with the need for daylight.

[formulasuper]

Surely no one in the vintage group will be using RF, right?

[Frank Del Vecchio]

heck - three year old tires, 89 octane gas - just happy to be going. Car finally started after sitting the garage since last August. Victor at VAS remade my 13th Valley suit for the heavy weight!

[andyllc]

I'm with Rand on this one. Post names, forget where they are from. California is a big state, that doesn't narrow it down by much. Just put names up of people that are talking about running it, if that includes you (meaning whomever is reading this) man up and admit it.

[Charles Livingston]

formulasuper,

I am running a 71 March in vintage and will NOT be using RF. As far as I know, the names I recognize having run vintage against at RA do not run RF, those specifically being Steve G., Frank Newton, and Eric Dean.

Who ran RF at the sprints this year?

[Vanquizor]

Hey all,

I generally run pump gas, but it is my understanding this may not be GCR legal- can someone point mt to a VP equivilant to Cam2?

[John Robinson II]

Vanquizor,
Any of the leaded race fuels should be legal, unless you are paying like $50 per gallon for the crap.

Gentlemen, If yo uthink you can just dump in a can of RF and go faster you are saddly mistaken. In order to take advantage the benefits of RF there are other changes that need to happen with the motor. At the race track is not the place to experiment with this stuff. If your engine builder has not run through several jugs of the stuff trying different settings then you are throwing away money. I have run both C44 and ERC and I pushed Rollin into dynoing with the C44, there was a small amount to be found but not much. Can any of us say that we are such perfectionist drivers that an additional .5 to 1.5 hp will help? Atleast in my case, absolutely not.

Based on some of my previous experiences with others running the stuff, I want all to use it. It will slow you down.

Run the fuel your engine builder tuned your motor on!!! End of Subject

John

[Frank Del Vecchio]

formulasuper,

I am running a 71 March in vintage and will NOT be using RF. As far as I know, the names I recognize having run vintage against at RA do not run RF, those specifically being Steve G., Frank Newton, and Eric Dean.

Who ran RF at the sprints this year?

:

I wonder if that is my old March - an F-3 car converted by Robin Herd into a FF - called a 718 March I think - owned it in 1971 if memory is correct.

[Josh Pitt]

seperate classes for RF and no RF for this year sounds like a good plan as was stated above.

the RF guys trophies could also have a rocket on it blasting off or something to that effect to honor them instead of the usual steering wheel themes and such.