What makes FF owners race their cars?

[cdona]

What makes FF people show up to the races?The competition,the thrill of driving fast,the mechanical challenge or maybe just gathering together with many others that share those same interests.The reason I ask this question is to find out what would bring more cars out that maybe would normally only run once or twice a year.I know there are many cars just sitting in garages waiting for their owners to prep them and show up to a race.If we could come up with some incentive that would bring these cars and drivers out it would be great for the class and the club.Anybody have any ideas?

[Jon Horgas]

I don't know if this is why all people race Fords, but this is why I have recently purchased a car to rebuild and have fun with:

Here are a few of my reasons.

I wanted to race a purpose built race car, that I can adjust and develop as my driving develops. A spec miata is just a modified car being used in a fashion that it really wasn't intended. I want to know what a ride height or spring rate change feels like mid corner, or on entry, or on exit. A taxicab isn't going to teach me much about vehicle dynamics.

I wanted a class that uses engines that are commoditites. Engine development of a production class would likely consume more funds than a full Ford program.

Fords are relatively low entry level cost wise and cheaper to operate when not replacing wings, diffusers, etc. after landing in the kitty litter.

I simply can't afford an Atlantic or other carbon based class, and frankly I don't have enough confidence in my driving that I wouldn't hurt myself in one. Something fast and easy to drive (atlantic) would likely bite me in the ass really hard some day. An easy to drive car that has less energy to disperse is a risk I'm more comfortable with.

[cdona]

If you have a problem with your FF that keeps you from racing ,call me I will give you free info and consultation.I want to see an increase in participation.If you can run a race or two but have problems with your car call me.I will be at all SW division races and some Mid division races.There are FF guys all over the country that will be glad to help as well.Check with your local prep shops.Take those covers off those cars,wipe the dust off,get them ready run and go racing.For help call 817-860-1985.

[Dale Carter]

Mike, you raise two very interesting questions. "Why do we race?" There may be a variety of answers but most will be subtle variations on the most basic responses - for the thrill of fast driving, the competition, the pure movement & control, the feeling of g-forces in curves, the technical challenges and surely for the camaraderie. Racing is the great diversion and that's perfectly legit. You gotta love it! Some guys sail boats, others fly planes, others go fishin'. Racing - and especially racing open wheel Formula Fords - is a passion we on this forum all share. Next time on track will be my 211th event and every single time I run, it's the same thrill, the same rush, the same pleasure!

Now, the second part of the question: "What makes people show up?" - guys with cars sitting idle. A tough one! If the events are worth the "cost" - in terms of the effort, time and money required and if it's rewarding overall, any racer will gladly load up and go. If, on the other hand, it's a big hassle for one reason or another or if the time or funds cannot be found, if there are family obligations, if work is overwhelming or if other commitments and responsibilities interfere - even other leisure activities - well then, a guy will find it difficult to get out there no matter how badly he wants to! I think those are the issues we're facing. (Okay, "track time" may be one of the factors too! Don't get me started!)

Having said that, I'm with you: If there is ANYONE out there with a Formula Ford under a tarp in the garage - in need of parts, repairs, help of any sort - GET IN TOUCH with a fellow, active racer and sort out any technical problems, parts issues or whatever difficulty with the car or engine that you may have. Come out to the next Regional race in your area and "re-connect" with your "racing family". Usually, you can find a lot of the FF guys paddocked together. You'll find all the help you need, no doubt. There are a lot of resources in the New England Region. Take advantage of what's available and COME ON out to the Regionals and sign up for the NEC while you're at it!

[ThinkFast]

RunAmok made about all the points I had about why I picked FF. Since this is my first experience racing ANYTHING, it's a far up the ladder as I should have started.

A difficult thing I had to learn was that there was so much help available. When I went to my first event, I didn't make it on track because there were so many little things I needed to do. My wife was tired and my sister went to the wrong race track so I tried to do it all by myself. Needless to say, it was a waste of effort and I drove from SoCal to Phoenix for "nothing".

However, I learned "something" upon my arrival home. Todd from TCE emailed me asking what happened. He'd seen me in tech but not on the track. I told him what happened and how it wasn't in the cards (I was feeling sorry for myself). Todd balled me out for not asking for help. In fact, he DEMANDED that I seek him out at any event if I needed help! I didn't know my fellow "competitors" would be willing to help! In fact, I assumed otherwise and that the FFU only worked because so few of us were in direct contact with the others!

So my suggestions are:
1) Contact the FF owners (or potential owners) and invite them to the track. Bring them in on your event Registration and let them help or roam the track as they prefer.
2) Encourage the FF guys to pit together (or even all the open wheel guys). If someone is having a problem, anyone else who might have a part or info is within shouting distance.
3) Seek out the new guy (like Todd did for me) and let them know that you're willing to help or answer any questions they may have. If they feel welcome, they're more likely to make going to the track a higher priority, even if it's only to help out another racer. Follow up with them after the race. Here in SoCal, Gerry Salazar has been a huge help to a lot of new people, even when he isn't driving.
4) I let a friend drive my car at a test day in an effort to convince him to join us. Are you willing to go to any lengths to bring in new blood? (BTW, I've never let ANYONE drive my Bugeyes or my '65 Mustang).

Maybe I'll think of more stuff later. Hey, how about an FF picnic! Either at a park or at someones house. Hey, maybe a monthly potluck BBQ hosted by the current point leader!

[Jerry Sloot]

it's not about cubic inches....it's about cubic dollars. I think it's great [not] that my local not for profit region is sitting on about 0.5 million dollars in the bank or invested while eye race for a $12 trophy...don't ask me how to stimulate cars showing up, ask the administration of the regions nationwide - after all they run the show....the local drag racers can run for cups or bucks but not us in the SCCA.....how about this - win your class and you run free next event - or whatever.... but the cars stay under the tarps for lack of a budget. How can we get cars to show up you ask - uhhhhh let's start with not having to replace belts every 2 years, let's start with realizing that it makes no sense to ask FF at the regional level to be so f'ing pure to the original rules from 25 yrs ago- rules compliance at the regional level just raises costs so that someone can win a $12 piece of wood - whoooooppie!!! we need to use cranks/cams/flywheels/you name it and a whole bunch of other parts that will hold down costs at the REGIONAL level....noone won a regional championship and was asked to test an Indy Light much less any thing else - regional champions are of no importance in the grand scheme of things so why why why punish the regional racer with a bunch of expensive rules that only end up keeping cars under tarps?

[mark defer]

You guys got it all wrong. I race only because of the scantily clad FF groupie chicks that hang around my trailer, polish my car and push it to the grid.

[ThinkFast]

Tom,
Where do you race? How can I get over there?

Although we don't have it that good at the race tracks in SoCal, we can just go to the beach any day of the week.

In January. :D ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] :D

[RobLav]

I am one of those "under-the-tarp-guys"

I bought the car a little over a year ago. It was track ready and tech ready sans current belts. However, it didn't meet my standards cosmetically. I think those who would not make a reasonable effort to make the car presentable (as a racecar not a showcar) probably let the maintenance slip a little too. I wanted to go through it before I strapped myself in.

As the story goes; there was a [i]major[/i] change in financial situation about the same time I had the chassis at the blaster/powder coater.

Well now the situation has changed for the better. I've recooped about 25% of the household income I lost and will now have a some extra funds to race.

Here's what will keep me racing: competition and fields. I will race where I can find the largest fields within 400 miles. It's a catch 22, if the fields are small I'll go elsewhere, if I and others go elsewhere the fields will stay small.

[schomosport]

I think a universal (i.e. National and Regional) spec tire would get more people out to the track.

[Wayne Lee]

I agree with a spec tire rule. A harder tire that doesn't go off after a handful of sessions. At least you would have the option of investing in that last 0.5 sec if you were really trying to beat the best.

[roggie93]

I race simply for the thrill of competition. There are few things as exciting as running through a 3rd gear flat out corner with your nose tucked under gearbox of the car in front of you, or vice versa.
As far as the preparation goes, I see that alot of you guys spend way too much money on your cars in the pursuit of speed. I believe that this is the biggest single factor keeping cars under tarps in garages. I've seen guys go away from the track thinking that they needed the latest this and the lightest that and never see them again. I may be wrong, I have been before, but I don't spend near the money as most of my competitors and I still have a grand ol' time.
My old home spun/one armed guy prepped Zink will be out there again this season. ****, last year I ran all season on a race motor that I ran the year before. I did 23 races on the motor and didn't even pull off the head.
Crazy? Like a fox......

[cdona]

I have used 3 or 4 cycle old tires and I feel I do not loose that much.If we had a spec tire rule it would help the guys who can afford new rubber every weekend not the guys who buy used tires.Tires are made such that every heat cycle that is used makes the rubber a lttle harder and take longer to come up to temperature.I am not sure a Spec tire would cut the costs of tires ultimately.Look at the competitive spec classes, the drivers who win have new rubber every weekend.

[RobLav]

I didn't want to hijack the thread and preach spec tire, but since Mike started the thread and has taken it down that road, I'll follow.

My per season budget is "x". If I utilize a hard tire I will still find a way to spend "x" amount. Perhaps a better clutch, fresher motor, or most likely more seat time.

All of us have a choice to run a hard/spec tire if we wish. But who of us, that want to win, is willing to spot that much time to guys with new sticky stuff? Even with a "spec" tire some people will have new rubber every race because they aren't willing to spot anyone a couple of obvious tenths. I'll spot them a couple of tenths in tire and search for it behind the wheel.

[cdona]

If I thought a tire could be made to handle 10-12 competitive heat cycles I would want it to be a spec tire for FF.I don't think that there is a tire currently made that has that kind of performance.I remember my first 60 or so FF races all on used take off tires from the fast guys.

[knollmotorsports]

You are absolutely correct Mike, in fact with the harder rubber I believe there is even more of an advantage to new rubber over heat cycled. I can't tell you how many times I have run as fast or faster on the "used" stuff vs. new. Sometimes this can be a cruel reality check haha.

[Dennis Cleary]

I agree with all the comments above. I have a figure in mind of what I can justify to throw away on my racing hobby and cheaper tires would just allow me to spend $3k on data acquisition.

I run the Goodyears 10 to 12 cycles without a loss in lap times. I do have to be VERY careful on the warmup laps after 8 cycles and the car starts to go loose after 10 cycles. Other guys here do the same and yet some change tires EVERY weekend.

[Gary B.]

Hi All,

On spec tires rules, I can only share our experience in Formula Vee in South Africa.

Before you go the normal Formula Vee yegh! What does he know, consider that a SA Vee has 110hp in a 1120 lb (with driver) chassis. In fact, I normally beat most older (pre 1990) Kent Fords in the regional races here. (I only have problems with the *** Zetecs)

We found in Vee (I went to Vee due to cost- I crewed for a Ford competitor and fixed the car for 2 years) that tyres (and associated costs) were one of the bigger contributors to the not racing phenomenon. Spec tyres is our answer, but, yes, spec tyres can be manipulated, so our answer is to limit the driver to 4 sets per season (12 meetings). The innovation is in how we control the tyres: the tyres are marked with a pet identity electronic tag glued to the inside of the tirewall, which is normally destroyed when one tries to remove it from the tyre, and we use a handheld scanner to check on the tyres at every race.

It helped a lot in my opinion, to grow the field.

Thank you for a nice site.

Regards
Riaan Cilliers

[schomosport]

I have experience with two spec tires: i) the Dunlop FF treaded tire used in vintage in the U.S. and in the Ontario 1600 series and ii) the Yokohama spec tire in Spec Racer Ford. It has not been my experience that fresh tires offer any real advantage in those classes. Competitors in those classes easily get 15 sessions out of a set of tires with no degradation in performance.

[cdona]

A treaded tire is a completely different animal.Treaded tires offer considerable less grip than slicks even when they are new.I have run on the treaded tires in Canada.The braking distances were much greater and the lateral loads were much less.Remember if you are slipping a treaded tire it can be a hard compound.When you slip a slick you are likely tearing rubber off the tire.The treaded portion allows much more carcus manipulation so the actual rubber wear is considerably less.But so is the grip you get from the treaded tire.The slicks are always going to be more expensive as far as wear no matter what the compound.If you try a hard compound the tire will usually be considerably slower after a few cycles than a new set.So the real competitive guys are going to buy new rubber as needed.The other guys who are tryng to save money using the tire up are going to be slower.Treaded tires would lower our tire costs,but do you think the tire manufacturers will raise the price of a spec tire to compensate for less sales?We have created the economics of racing based on what we will and won't buy.It will be very difficult to backtrack.

[Jeff Smith]

FWIW, I have been running the spec tire here in the Southeaast. What I have found is that the tires do not significantly give up after numerous heat cycles. Even discussing this with fellow competitors, the general consensus is that the R60 is good for about 20 heat cycles. When it goes it really goes, push on entry then loose on exit, very noticable. As far as lap times dropping off, I am still trying to match some of the times I ran on 15+ heat cycle sets.

I dont think spec tires will get more cars out. I dont know the answer, but what really bugs me is to see all the money spent by people in other classes and watching that they dont have near the fun we do.

The other thing I have been wondering about is related to a comment made by Todd Cook. He stated that both shops in his area are turning away work. Now if the economy is so bad, and people arent racing because they dont have the funds, what work are they turning away? Sorry Todd not throwing you under the bus, just trying to understand what is going on. I have talked to a few other prep shops that are talking about lean times.

I know there are a lot of cars here in the SE that are sitting. I really wish I had a clue as to what it would take to get them on the track. On a regional level we have lost several cars this year due to various reasons none of which are funds related. Competition is getting scarce unless I make the long haul to the Northern part of the SE divison.

[Jerry Sloot]

well, we [plural] have done it again....the title of "what makes FF racers race?" has responses about parts / spec tires and other digressions... Hmmmm, guess that means all is right in the universe because we do so on many other threads too. Eye am guilty too. So, to rectify.... i race because i do enjoy the thrill from control of power and momemtum and the tiny [very tiny] status gained as a "driver". It's about cubic dollars but then we all know that.