SCCA downfall

[Bryan Pacelli]

All you currently racing FF are the downfall of the sport.

It is no longer an inexpensive entry point for pro racing. No one who drives indy today every spent substantial time in a FF.

Two things need to happen:

1. make FF a driver's class and not an engine builder's or chassis class.

2. The SCCA needs to give free PR to all top runners in the class so they can draw sponsorship $ to move up. This is good for the SCCA too. Otherwise only the $$Andrettis and the $$unsers of the world will only make it to INDY. That is reeeeal boring.

Think about it - how popular SCCA would be if the next indy winner came up through the ranks. With the way things are going, SCCA will always be a club for guys towing thier 20 year old cars on open trailers behind old Vans. (Isn't that Vintage?)

[Dennis Cleary]

Bill,
I just saw your car listed for sale on this board, so it's a comfort to know that you are taking your own advice! I don't imagine many other will follow your lead. This is the best class in the SCCA, bar none. We have the nicest guys and gals, close racing, and enough speed to scare me every race! I did a car show recently and was swarmed with attention. So if any of you guys question our class, do a car show!

[ennis bragg]

[quote]Originally posted by lola 342:
[b]All you currently racing FF are the downfall of the sport.

It is no longer an inexpensive entry point for pro racing. No one who drives indy today every spent substantial time in a FF. [/b][/quote]I believe that you could look at the resumes of most Indy, CART, and F1 drivers and say that about any class, none of them spent significant amounts of time ANYWHERE on their way up. Andretti and Unser both drove FFs at one time, but you're right no one drives FFs for a long time and then goes pro. If you stay in Club Racing too long, you may never go....age becomes a factor.

[quote]Originally posted by lola 342:
[b]
Two things need to happen:

1. make FF a driver's class and not an engine builder's or chassis class.

2. The SCCA needs to give free PR to all top runners in the class so they can draw sponsorship $ to move up. This is good for the SCCA too. Otherwise only the $$Andrettis and the $$unsers of the world will only make it to INDY. That is reeeeal boring.

Think about it - how popular SCCA would be if the next indy winner came up through the ranks. With the way things are going, SCCA will always be a club for guys towing thier 20 year old cars on open trailers behind old Vans. (Isn't that Vintage?)[/b][/quote]I have to say that you sound a little jaded by FF, and as Tim said, I guess you are saying it's not your thing, since you are selling your car.

FF is a drivers class just like every formula class is supposed to be. If you buy you Ivey, Quicksilver, etc. motor, go with a chassis that works, VD or Swift in this case. What is left is pretty much the driver. Have you ever noticed that Fast FF drivers are fast in any FF, not just their own. That is true of fast drivers in general.

I agree that their needs to be something done to attract new drivers, but GOOD new drivers will move on quickly no matter what, so we might as well have cars and classes that support the masses. With 1200 people active in FF in some way shape or form from the driver/crew/supplier side, I think that's a group to keep working with.

As for the SCCA offering Free PR, as a sanctioning body, I think they do a good job of telling people who's out there winning races. They get us TV coverage, but that isn't what get's sponsorships and sponsorships is a whole different discussion.

I wish you well in whatever endeavor you choose to pursue, and hope you at least had fun with the Lola.

[size="1"][ September 06, 2002, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Dave Harris ][/size]

[cdona]

Dave you are too kind.Mr. Lola needs SCCA spec car.No he deserves SCCA new spec car.FF people are great competitors,some are free thinkers,some are not,some have family some do not,some like Swifts some like VanDiemans,even one likes a Sauce.FF is made up of alot of different kinds of people that like the formula of FF.You Mr. Lola do not have to like it.I don't race FV but I would not tell the FV guys that they are the problem because inspite of no support from car manufacturers,SCCA,Pro series,lack of driver developement,engine been out of production for 30 years that they have done an excellent job keeping their class alive.We can learn something from that I think.FF will survive and even thrive in the future because it makes sense to many people because the racing is great. Parts issues,costs issues etc.will be addressed you can count on it.The FF comunity is already addressing many of these issues now.So sell your FF to someone who wants it and will race it.I have run over 130 FF races and I had fun in everyone of them.How you driven your FF lately?

[Bryan Pacelli]

No I did not drive my FF at all last year in SCCA. You know why? It was just too hard to make it through the SCCA to get started again.

What broke the camels back was the peole at Thunderhill telling me I had to buy a transponder for yet another $300 on top of the entry fee. Why not just hook up an IV to my arm to draw blood.

Did anyone call to see why I did not make the race?

SCCA marketing is a failure. They should know where every race legal car is and survey the drivers as to why they no longer race. I did not get one call as to why I could not make it. At a minimum, they should have lent me one so I could make the race(NASA lend transponders until you can afford to buy one). But the SCCA surely wanted their $300 for that transponder.

What do $6000 race engines from the engine mafia and $3000 shock sets have to do with driving?

[DENIS]

I believe most regions offer a 'rent to buy' or rental only deal on them. We do in AZ. Did you ask. SCCA members were also given over a year to prepare for this. I agree it's a new expense and they all add up, but it's not like this was suddenly sprung on anyone, besides it has proven to be a small thing that has been needed for years.

[Keith Carter]

Lola, you are going off in different directions here.
We all understand that you are very unhappy with the SCCA and have explained why.
Please, if you are that unhappy, take a moment and think about what you are trying to accomplish.
Many of us here are racers, that race. We understand the cost and try to maintain a budget.
If you are as pissed as you come off, sell your car NOW and find a new hobby.
We appreciate your opinions, but unless you are going to start with realistic solutions, stop complaining.

[Chuck Gillis]

Hello Lola342: I have a transponder for you. By coincidence, it came out of a T-342, so it will feel right at home. Bring your Lola to Thunderhill this weekend, or Sears Point in October, and it's yours. The proviso is that you must enter and race to receive the transponder. Lots of cars to race with this weekend, and I believe 4 or 5 of them are Lolas. At least 2 342's!

Hard to believe the price of a transponder is what has kept the Lola in the garage all year. In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing you and your car real soon.

Yes sir, I'm calling your bluff. I'll have the transponder in Impound starting this weekend.

Regards. gm

[Jeff Smith]

Greg,
I think your transponder is safe. From what I have gathered in the other posts seems that MR Lola just wants to compplain that he has to build a cheater ( not Illegal but outright cheater) motor in order to be fast. Seems that the $3000 shocks wont help you accelerate faster from the corner, might help you carry more speed but I dont think many of us are at the driving level to be able to fully use them.
As far as the $6000 motor, well doesnt he get it, if we change the rules to meet his formula then some people will still spend that much or more just to massage the extra little bit out that the pro builders seem to be able to do.

No disrespect meant to anyone but this seems to me to be a Saturday night roundy-rounders mentality. Maybe lola would be better suited in a bomber car, cheap racing and if he drives real well can even take home the trophy and the $$.
just my thought on the issue.
John

[P Calhoun]

Greg,

Thanks for the offer. Though it is now a 10 hour drive from where I live north of Willow Springs, I will try to make Sears Point in October. Probably by then I will have pissed off enough people on this message board that there will be a line of people to kick my ass when I show up. I hope you all now realize that I deliberately got in everyone's face to shake things up a little. I care very much for the FF sport and am very concerend the direction it is heading.

Right now I am waiting for my front wheel bearings to be replaced and won't make Thunderhill.

I am also currently on active duty awaiting orders to go to the other side of the world. So if I don't show at Sears Point, you know where I am.

[P Calhoun]

John,

You got it wrong,

Road racing is the only true for of racing. Going in left hand turns all day long is real boring.

How about all the cars get brake dyno matched prior to the race to the car with the lowest horsepower engine. Anyone with higher horsepower gets a restrictor plate for that weekend (SCCA will carry multiple restrictor plates of various diameters) that way I can build a legal engine at home and compete with a car that has a $6000 engine.

Also, I did not cheat with my motor. I legally ran as a FA.

[Ferris11]

Gang,

I could be wrong, ..

but it seems to me that Lola's real gripe might be that he loves his Lola, .. but can't afford to run it, ..
and is frustrated and blaming everyone for it, .. SCCA, .. "blood sucking" engine builders, .. etc.

I, .. along with others here doesn't want to log on to read some one complaining, . ( hint )
But I'm going to offer my sympathy for Lola's frustration, .. and sorrow at loosing a FF racer, ..

Lola, .. if we have to loose you, .. don't forget that racing Karts, . or shifter karts is way cheaper
and may fulfill your need for speed.

Curtis
Vector FF

[P Calhoun]

Curtis,

I have a one inch long scar on my chin from turn 7 at Riverside. I was lucky to have been wearing a full face helmet when I hit the guard rail at 90+ mph in a 250cc situp sprint car, otherwise I would have had a lot of reconstructive surgery on my jaw.

Of 45 carts in the field, I was in the top ten in lap times. This was the first time I had driven Riverside. There is a short stretch that leads from 6 (hairpin) down into 7. You cannot see into 7 until you enter the turn. Plus as you crest over the entry to the tun, you off load a little.

I was on a VERY hot lap coming down that short stretch, entered 7 to find three rookie carts(x's on the back of their helmets) going half my speed through the turn. They were three abreast, and I had no where to go other than plow into them. (Gilles Villaneuve was taken out by a back runner)

All I did was touch the brakes to keep from plowing into the back of one of them. Since I was off loaded and only had rear brakes, you guessed it, I spun backwards through the dirt, corrected to turn myself forward to just in time blammy face first into the double row guard rail.

I ripped off the front tire completely from the kart and the front of the frame was bent thirty degrees off plane from the rear axle. I was bleeding profusely from my chin. I also developed a bruse on my right shoulder the size of a basketball.

My expereince as an SCCA corner worker told me to sit tight until help came. I thought I had broke my neck, so I sat tight holding my helmet stable until the ambulance arrived.

So I do not race karts since half the field is 10 to 15 year old kids. Plus I like the safety that the rollbar in my FF allows. Karts are cheap but things equalize with the higher medical bills.

This is also why I am a liitle concerened about racing my Lola in VARA. I will be the back market in a feild that will have F1's and INDY cars. SInce my car is not vintage, I cannot race with the FF's.

[Ferris11]

hummm, ...

perhaps I was wrong ;)

Curtis
Vector FF

[rainman]

Lola-

you will be ahppy to know that the 250cc class is alive and well. The karts are much safer then when you raced them (I have no idea how or why you would run a 250cc kart with no front brakes - askin for disaster). You will also like to know - MOST of the 250cc field is around your age (most likely unless you are over 60 - but I figured you for being in low to mid 40's).

They will be at Laguna Seca NEXT weekend (World SuperKart challenge) along with the ALMS and SCCA GT & Touring race. I hope you go out and check them out, maybe they can convince you to get back into it -

HOWEVER, they will have to listen to your gripes there too [img]smile.gif[/img] as the cost of a proper 250 single or twin cylinder kart costs much more than your lola to run, buy and maintain.

Cheers!

Marc

[Chuck Gillis]

...and under the shirt and behind those glasses is...

Lola 342, if you need front hubs, I'll have them at Thunderhill this weekend also. I'll even leave the rotors on, so ther is little time required to mount. So, will we see you? It would be a shame to miss a golden opportunity to get that Lola out of the garage.

gm

[BrianT1]

So lets get all the facts straight from all your posts thru out this message board Lola 342.
- raced 250 sit-up kart???(with no front brakes)
- you are an engineer and a marketing expert and on active duty.(when would you have time to race?)
- you state that you wont race because of SCCA but your selling your car to by furniture for new home.
- your name is Bill but you will not post your full name like others on this board.
- you have managed to probably piss off most of the members on this board with inflammatory comments in 4 short days.
-you have challenged members driving ability and your prowess behind the wheel but wont back it up.
Do I need to go on.
You are everything that formula Ford does not need please go somewhere else to race or do whatever you do.
Thanks John

[Keith Carter]

All,
We are trying to be laxed here, but Lola, by your own admission...you are just trying to upset people. This forum is not the place for that.
If you want to discuss racing then this is the place. If you want to just write things to "stir things up" then please take your game to another forum.

Thanks,
Joe

[mark defer]

Looks like we've got two different lola's out there. They have different member numbers...

[P Calhoun]

John,

YOU ARE THE WINNER. You Guessed right! I am deliberately trying to piss people off since this whole game needs to be shaken up.

I re entered FF after a long Hiatus and was dismayed at what I found.

I am a true race junkie. I have 110 octane running through my blood. I don't care AT ALL for any other professional sport other than road racing(F1, Indy, and 3 liter) What got me thorugh 5.5 years of a Mechanical Engineering degree at Georgia Tech was the thought that one day I would get out and make enough to race. I recently watched "Grand Prix"(the greatest movie ever made) and went out immediatley and bought another FF.

Well, engineers don't make as much as Doctors and Lawyers so racing is yet another struggle with a mortgage etc.

Plus, after trying to get a start at the SF region, I confronted so many brick walls that I just shook my head. The biggest one was from the office at Thill. "well we only need to run one driver's school a year. Since you missed ours, they have one in DENVER coming up you can go to. Plus if you want to come drive with us, you have to buy a transponder, arm restraints, horse collar.......Kaching, Kaching, Kaching...."

So can I make a the races at THill and SearsP, Hell no, I wasn't even able to get to square one with a driver's school. I am pretty much over for the season.

Plus now that I live in Palmdale, Thill is 8 hours away and SearsP is a good 10 hour drive. I just do not have the vacation time saved up to take a Monday and a Friday off.

I tell you what I am going to do, I am going to talke $100 and drive to Buttonwillow on a Friday afternoon and do about 200 laps. I don't need a license to do that.

[dc]

Complaining without solution is just instigating.

Lola 342, if you are unhappy with the class, then offer some reasonable solutions to all of the problems you bring up. We race Regionally in FC with a motor that costs half the price of what you mention and take-off tires, and we have more fun than you can buy. I know of many guys racing in the SCCA that are running on tight budgets, and loving it.

Unlike other boards, we have a short fuse for fight picking and flame-baiting. This stops right here...

-doug