Bringing out your dead

[stonebridge20]

Here's three pictures of a ring and pinion we were challenged to bring back to usable condition by an Apex regular. Picture 1 is how we received them. Picture 2 is after vapor honing..Pictures 3 and 4 is after we REM-ISF processed them today.

www.cryosciencetechnologies.com

[Jon Jeffords]

What is the savings percentage to have them reconditioned versus buying a new ring & pinion?

[stonebridge20]

What is the savings percentage to have them reconditioned versus buying a new ring & pinion?

Hewland Mk9 ring and pinion new $2,499

Mk9 ring and pinion Cryo treat $125

Mk9 ring and pinion vapor hone (only needed if they're really nasty) $50

Mk9 ring and pinion REM-ISF $165

[T644HU07]

What is vapor honing?

Hewland Mk9 ring and pinion new $2,499

Mk9 ring and pinion Cryo treat $125

Mk9 ring and pinion vapor hone (only needed if they're really nasty) $50

Mk9 ring and pinion REM-ISF $165

[DaveW]

What is vapor honing?

From the web:

Vapor blasting is a method of removing debris and contaminants from a surface using pressurized water mixed with abrasive media. If you add the media to the water before blasting, the process is often known as slurry blasting. You may hear vapor blasting referred to as wet blasting, vapor honing, liquid honing, or dustless blasting.

Vapor blasting is more gentle on objects than dry blasting techniques. The water acts as a cushion for the abrasive material during impact. This allows vapor blasting to clean by using flow rather than harsh impact.

You also can choose the type of abrasive media to use with this style of blasting. You can achieve a range of rougher or smoother finishes with vapor blasting.

Vapor blasting leaves the final finish with a uniform feathered surface. The media from dry blasting hits the object at an angle resulting in deeper depressions creating a rougher surface. Your project and preferences will ultimately determine which finish you like more.

[EYERACE]

..........Batman !!

[Rick Iverson]

..........Batman !!

How so? The CW&P appeared to be soiled. What does that have to do gear integrity?

[Hardingfv32]

So let's frame this story a little. What are your limits on what is too far worn to be reconditioned? I assume we are talking about something beyond micro pitting. How much coarse grain structure or scuffing can be removed?

What happens to the gear geometry after all this wear has been smoothed away?

Brian

[stonebridge20]

So let's frame this story a little. What are your limits on what is too far worn to be reconditioned? I assume we are talking about something beyond micro pitting. How much coarse grain structure or scuffing can be removed?

What happens to the gear geometry after all this wear has been smoothed away?

Brian

I have no limits on what our customers ask us to process for them. It's completely up to the customer to determine what is a usable and what is an unusable part.

That being said. REM-ISF treatment will only remove a maximum .0002" of material.
There are a few other "micropolishing" processes out there that use abrasive media to try and achieve what REM-ISF achieves chemically that really remove a ton of material. I would never subject any parts requiring critical operating tolerances to that type of "polishing?

Long story short. Neither Cryo, vaporhoning or REM-ISF will make chicken soup out of chicken poop.

[jcolley]

I have no limits on what our customers ask us to process for them. It's completely up to the customer to determine what is a usable and what is an unusable part.

That being said. REM-ISF treatment will only remove a maximum .0002" of material.
There are a few other "micropolishing" processes out there that use abrasive media to try and achieve what REM-ISF achieves chemically that really remove a ton of material. I would never subject any parts requiring critical operating tolerances to that type of "polishing?

Long story short. Neither Cryo, vaporhoning or REM-ISF will make chicken soup out of chicken poop.

What's the size limit on what you can vapor hone? Alusil V10 engine block, heads, etc by chance? As I understand it, there is a minuscule amount of material removal, but this would be on cast external surfaces only.

[EYERACE]

It would appear I've got some 'splainin' to do........because Rick left me a PM that is not fit to print here.

I shall conclude Rick thought - because I used the word 'grenade' - that I meant that the parts would when in use end up grenading with catastrophic results.
No.
The thread was started/captioned with a Monty Python reference / joke as I read the title.
My comment is meant along that same line.
If I'm remembering the Python movie correctly - a skit with the line "Bring out your dead" is from The Holy Grail movie.
Much later in the same movie the Python guys have to use their Holy Hand Grenade.
Ya gotta admit the pinion before it was cleaned up vaguely looks like the sort of grenade a WW2 German soldier had.
In addition to that, the old Batman shows from decades ago always had Robin exclaiming "Holy ...something or other" to Batman.

So I posted my comment above as a joke referencing Python > Holy Hand Grenade (even though the grenade from the movie looks a lot different) and then I concluded with the Batman reference thinking the reader could connect the dots. Often comedy has many references from differing sources combined to make the joke.

So, Rick do understand that I think it's marvelous such work can be done to make parts serviceable again. I'd never heard of the process noted here and am thankful to have learned more. Wishing you well.

[stonebridge20]

What's the size limit on what you can vapor hone? Alusil V10 engine block, heads, etc by chance? As I understand it, there is a minuscule amount of material removal, but this would be on cast external surfaces only.

Heads? Yes but we'd never fit a V10 block in the cabinet.

[Rick Iverson]

Stan:

As everyone on Apex knows, I suck at math, and have absolutely no sense of humor.

Sir, I stand corrected. Accept this as an apology, friend.

It would appear I've got some 'splainin' to do........because Rick left me a PM that is not fit to print here.

I shall conclude Rick thought - because I used the word 'grenade' - that I meant that the parts would when in use end up grenading with catastrophic results.
No.
The thread was started/captioned with a Monty Python reference / joke as I read the title.
My comment is meant along that same line.
If I'm remembering the Python movie correctly - a skit with the line "Bring out your dead" is from The Holy Grail movie.
Much later in the same movie the Python guys have to use their Holy Hand Grenade.
Ya gotta admit the pinion before it was cleaned up vaguely looks like the sort of grenade a WW2 German soldier had.
In addition to that, the old Batman shows from decades ago always had Robin exclaiming "Holy ...something or other" to Batman.

So I posted my comment above as a joke referencing Python > Holy Hand Grenade (even though the grenade from the movie looks a lot different) and then I concluded with the Batman reference thinking the reader could connect the dots. Often comedy has many references from differing sources combined to make the joke.

So, Rick do understand that I think it's marvelous such work can be done to make parts serviceable again. I'd never heard of the process noted here and am thankful to have learned more. Wishing you well.

[EYERACE]

Yup.

Choice of words can be a problem such that misunderstandings result.

Example from a few years ago:
I'm a corner worker at Daytona turn 6. A car spins coming out of it, stalls and stops on track........30 seconds later it still can't get going. Waving yellow.
I call in on the radio > "Turn 6 to race control, blue car # 40, dead in the water."

Oops!

I was quickly reminded to not use a certain word that might quite arouse a heck of a response among other parts of the support team, especially if they only heard part of my announcement.

and then there's the part of the first Men in Black movie where the "bug" asks the shop keeper > "Where do you keep your dead?" and the reply was > "I don't have any dead."

[DaveW]

When Bridgestone bought Firestone in the late '80's, many Japanese engineers came over to work with us. They were present to learn our strengths and to help us learn theirs.

Because of the native language difference, one had to be VERY sure the person from one nation understood the person from the other.

And, since the Japanese were too polite to ever say they didn't understand what we, the Firestone folks, were trying to say, we began ending every conversation with "Did you understand what I said?" to minimize mis- or non-communications. They would respond to a direct question like that, so it worked very well.

That was a very good lesson, and still affects how I say things, i.e., as precisely as I can.

Humor, jokes, and obscure references are often misunderstood on the web because you can't see the writer's face/body/hands to see how they meant it.

[Rick Iverson]

As usual. On course, on glidepath.

When Bridgestone bought Firestone in the late '80's, many Japanese engineers came over to work with us. They were present to learn our strengths and to help us learn theirs.

Because of the native language difference, one had to be VERY sure the person from one nation understood the person from the other.

And, since the Japanese were too polite to ever say they didn't understand what we, the Firestone folks, were trying to say, we began ending every conversation with "Did you understand what I said?" to minimize mis- or non-communications. They would respond to a direct question like that, so it worked very well.

That was a very good lesson, and still affects how I say things, i.e., as precisely as I can.

Humor, jokes, and obscure references are often misunderstood on the web because you can't see the writer's face/body/hands to see how they meant it.

[E1pix]

It happens, Guys, so nice to see our group's still the Greatest.

[Robins Ken]

When Bridgestone bought Firestone in the late '80's, many Japanese engineers came over to work with us. They were present to learn our strengths and to help us learn theirs.

Because of the native language difference, one had to be VERY sure the person from one nation understood the person from the other.

And, since the Japanese were too polite to ever say they didn't understand what we, the Firestone folks, were trying to say, we began ending every conversation with "Did you understand what I said?" to minimize mis- or non-communications. They would respond to a direct question like that, so it worked very well.

That was a very good lesson, and still affects how I say things, i.e., as precisely as I can.

Humor, jokes, and obscure references are often misunderstood on the web because you can't see the writer's face/body/hands to see how they meant it.

Same scenario at driving schools way back when.. Lots of Ok Ok Ok. Then a teaser. How did you find out about our School? Ok Ok Ok
No disrepect here to anyone. Just that we all have to be on the same page.