Motorcycle powered oil pan question.

[Dan Lipperini Jr]

I posted this in the Auto-x section, but maybe the general discussion area is a better spot. It could apply to several sections, but figured more might see it and advise if posted here.

Is there an opinion out there as to what works best for motorcycle powered auto-x and road race cars? I’m building a crosskart and will be competing with it in both our local auto-x and hillclimb series. Before building motor mounts, I would like to know what works for others, so I can position the engine in the correct spot.

- Wet sump with stock pans?
- Wet sump with a cut pan?
- Billet aluminum pan with fixed pick-up?
- Billet pan with swivel pick-up?
- Which of the above but adding a baffle/windage tray?
- Does anyone install an Accusump?
- Overfilling the system but to what level?

Any advise from those running auto-x, F600, DSR, P1, P2, F1000, FB or any others that I may have missed?

[S Lathrop]

When I designed the Citation F1000, I made an oil pan that was dry sump and was a structural member in the Citation chassis. This allowed me to lower the engine so that the bottom of the block/crank case was also part of the mounting structure for the engine. The pan was 1.5 inches tall. The engine had a dry sump system.

The rear of the pan was bolted to the rear drive assembly, the structure that mounted the differential and carried the oil tank. The stock mounts for the engine also bolted to the rear drive assembly just as the frame of the motor cycle bolted the the engine. At the front, I had a single lateral brace from the frame to the top of the engine block. This was to support the top of the engine against the lateral G loadings in a corner.

In most race cars, the engine block is used as a structural member but this not a good idea with a bike engine.

[Marty Nygard]

The stock pan is not a good idea since they are designed for maintaining pressure with the bike leaned over.
For my DSR/Suzuki I got a fairly low cost billet pan from a mini-sprint source. Fixed pickup, minimal baffling, and an accusump and never had a bearing problem. The accusump may have been overkill but I was underweight anyway so it didn't hurt performance.
There were many theories about the correct oil fill level to keep the pickup submerged without flooding the crankshaft. This may have varied dependent on which engine was used.
I don't recall ever seeing a F1000 with an accusump and I also don't know if they were allowed dry sump systems. I also have no idea what is currently used in P1 or P2 cars.
Have fun.
Marty

[TedV]

I'm limited to the wet sump with baffles per class rules. I would think dry sump would give better performance and would have one if I could. I won't see the cross kart folks until Pine Mtn next month to verify what they are using. They might see your question on the Book of Face groups and answer your question there...???

[924RACR]

For autox, I should think a wet sump with a swinging pickup should be entirely sufficient; plenty run those in road racing, which I think would be more demanding. Worst case, throw a small accusump on to cover the worst of the transients.

I run a full dry sump system (GSXR1000), but do road race.

[J Leonard]

Did I miss what engine you are using?

[Dan Lipperini Jr]

Sorry. While looking around locally, I was able to find a 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 1000. It is a whole running bike, so for my first attempt at a “scratch-built” crosskart, it will be fine. If I determine that the concept and build work out, I will begin a second kart and source a more modern motor. This is going to strictly be a toy with no completion timetable, so I’m in no hurry. Thanks all for the advise so far.

[patman]

My car came with a rilltech baffled wet sump pan (gsxr1000). I have almost 25 hours of road racing on it now with no issues.

[S Lathrop]

Sorry. While looking around locally, I was able to find a 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 1000. It is a whole running bike, so for my first attempt at a “scratch-built” crosskart, it will be fine. If I determine that the concept and build work out, I will begin a second kart and source a more modern motor. This is going to strictly be a toy with no completion timetable, so I’m in no hurry. Thanks all for the advise so far.

You are starting with a good choice. Motor cycle engines much newer have ECU that are difficult to impossible to make work in and car of any type.

[Dan Lipperini Jr]

I spoke with Rich at RillTech and he has a pan for my year, so I should have it next week. I’m looking for a side exit header too if anyone is reading this and might have one laying around. I have no constraints, so either left or right exit will work.

[10rmotor]

I spoke with Rich at RillTech and he has a pan for my year, so I should have it next week. I’m looking for a side exit header too if anyone is reading this and might have one laying around. I have no constraints, so either left or right exit will work.

I may have a 4 into 1 header that i think exits out the right side. I'll see if I can dig up all the pieces in the next few days and get some pictures of it.

[Dan Lipperini Jr]

Much appreciated everyone.

It’s a slow build project between “real work” in the shop, but should be good fun once done. Frame is coming along, pedals nd mount is done, front a-arm(off-road version) are done, seat is positioned but mounts aren’t in yet. I have the rear Torsen chain drive and housing ready to go in, but I want to get the engine in first. Everything from this point moving forward will depend on engine placement and waiting on the oil pan.

I’ll try to get a few pix posted tonite.

Thanks all.