98 Van Diemen Race-ready

[Anthony63]

Selling Race-ready 1998 Van Diemen - excellent condition

I purchased this car in excellent condition in May of 2022. I’ve run the car in two club races since purchasing it. Due to an inability to commit to running this season, the car is for sale. Brand new oil change and filter, spark plugs and Hawk brake pads (black) have been replaced and never used.

This is a pro car built by Wendell Miller of Quantum. It has many upgrades since the original, including Penske triples and an aim 4 with G dash. You may find that the car has been run by Hans Saurino who won the SCCA June sprints with it. It has also been raced in SCCA pro events with Wyatt Goodin and Tristan Vautier.

Spares/parts included with sale of car:

• 2 sets of rims - one set of OZ rims (black) (total of 2 sets of rims)
• Multiple left front/rear and right front/rear push rods with rod ends and turn-buckles
• Multiple upper and lower front and rear control arms

(exact numbers of push rods and control arms, left vs. right, front vs. rear, can be specified, including photos if requested)

• Spare nose (identical graphics to the other)
• Multiple gear sets (amount and ratios can be provided if requested)
• 4 quarts of transmission oil
• Brembo brake fluid
• Custom bead seat for driver ~160-170lbs, 5’9” (if applicable)

This month I purchased two sets of Hoosier slicks (four fronts, four rears) and one set of Hoosier rains (two fronts, two rears), all SCCA/FRP regulation sizes. I’d like to bundle these in for a total cost of:

$40,500 - includes all spares listed above, 2 sets of brand new never mounted Hoosier slicks and 1 set of brand new never mounted Hoosier rains

Or

$38,000 - includes spares listed above without spare tires

If there are any spares I am missing I will add to this post later.



The car is race-ready, add fuel and go. Located in Staten Island, New York.

[Messenger Racing]

As a former caretaker of this car I thought I would add a few comments.

This Van Diemen is unique - In my opinion it is the car to have with the Runoffs returning to Road America.

Background - I have been to Road America once in my life - 2021 when at age 64 I decided to take on some bucket lists tracks. My second session ever on the track this car was running in the 2:25 range. I think at this point I had been in the car 2 or 3 weekends. This car is a fast as anything out there.

Some of what make it special are:
1. Lower engine bay is solid mounted to the frame.
2. The car is narrow track for higher top speed instead of the typical late model FC version wide track. I believe VD used the same basic suspension dimensions of the 97 FC which is also known as a fast model but did not allow the larger drivers like the 98 and later chassis do.
3. Car has the 98 side pods which are a key to additional cooling for the Honda motor. (same aero cross section but larger intake and exit make temp more easily maximized.
4. Shifter has been moved outboard of frame at driver's side and I was very comfortable in the car at 6'2" 220 lbs.
5. A few other memories - special shocks, strong pro motor, fully massaged gear box, the nice steel brake rotors, new fuel cell in 2021, light weight car.

If I didn't have three VD including one 98 that I am in the process of building to these same specs I would take this car back in a heartbeat.

Jay M

[Anthony63]

In an effort to sell this car package sooner and get it into the hands of someone looking to run it this season, I am lowering the cost to:

$38,500 - For all spares and new tires

OR

$36,000 - For all spares minus new tires

Best offer is an option.

Thanks!

Anthony

[Anthony63]

A deposit has been put down for this car. Will update again with further details.

[Anthony63]

Car is back up for sale! Please refer to post on 2/15/23.

Thanks,
Anthony

[Anthony63]

Will accept $34,000 or best offer

Anthony

[RadMax]

Is there any chance it has a spare chassis?

[Anthony63]

Car is sold.

[GregPeluso]

Car is back on the market. I purchased this car in hopes of running it at FRP. The car is not in excellent condition and currently not race ready . I have replaced front brake master cylinder , replaced a few proper size rod ends plus more…. The biggest problem is the front upper wishbone mount has been repaired incorrectly… causing me to have issues setting the car up. I have started taking the car apart and have sent the shocks out since they have not been touched in years. The car has only 1 set of wheels because the other set that came with the car had 3 bent wheels and I purchased a new rim from Primus to have 1 set (there was a bent rim in the second set). Bodywork is fair… Extra narrow track suspension pieces ….. I also replaced the brake pedal to a straight VD pedal.
Currently there is no logbook because the prior owner has not located it yet. I paid $29k for this car and hoping to get $32k after I fix these items with the mount and install rebuilt shocks . I was hoping the seller was going to help with the repair but he refuses , so it is on me. I made a mistake with the purchase and want the next owner to understand the true condition of the car.
here are pictures of the issue I discovered that has the front RF mount attached higher than the LF.

[Adriancnh]

Pretty well every time I see someone advertise as "race ready" I assume it's a hot mess.

GLWS

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I'm sorry for the bad experience. Once you fix it perhaps you can drive it.

[GregPeluso]

I’ll fix it….. I spent 5 hrs today taking it apart. However , I would let it go if someone out there believes this is a special car like the ad depicts and the testimonial it received . I spent 5 hrs on the pad last week confused on why things didn’t ad up . The car when delivered sat at 50mm F 55mm rear …. 500lb F spring 950lb R spring …. 5mm total toe in (rear) 0 toe in the front with -4.5 camber front and -3.5 camber rear. I atleast know what’s up for the most part.

[GregPeluso]

I want to the future buyer to see it is going to be properly repaired.
stripped more of the car…

[billtebbutt]

Pretty well every time I see someone advertise as "race ready" I assume it's a hot mess.

GLWS

Not necessarily true at all. Clearly in this case the purchase has been a bad experience (and I am sorry for the buyer). But I have bought truly race ready cars on this site and sold a few as well (and I have pretty high standards regarding car prep). I am hesitant to paint everyone with the same brush.

One way to minimize a bad outcome is more due diligence if you can't do a personal inspection. When selling a car, I have always offered up a couple of personal references (guys who know the car well in its current condition, guys who know me well, respected prep shops that know both well, etc.). Word travels pretty quickly in this community. Its not infallible, but it has seemed to work well so far.

best,

bt

[CGOffroad]

I am unable to follow what is wrong from the photos. A few posts back showed measures between upper and lower wishbones not being equal. This made me think the right front mount was reattached at the wrong height. But in later photos it looks as if the mount is 'on level' with the rack on both sides of the car. Or, is this just deceiving in the photos? If the mount is at the same height, is there some difference in the lower mounts?

[DaveW]

...One way to minimize a bad outcome is more due diligence if you can't do a personal inspection. When selling a car, I have always offered up a couple of personal references (guys who know the car well in its current condition, guys who know me well, respected prep shops that know both well, etc.). Word travels pretty quickly in this community. Its not infallible, but it has seemed to work well so far...

This aligns with one of my personal rules: Never assume anything. Assumptions too often come back to bite you in the butt.

[GregPeluso]

Mounts are at different heights






QUOTE=CGOffroad;657984]I am unable to follow what is wrong from the photos. A few posts back showed measures between upper




and lower wishbones not being equal. This made me think the right front mount was reattached at the wrong height. But in later photos it looks as if the mount is 'on level' with the rack on both sides of the car. Or, is this just deceiving in the photos? If the mount is at the same height, is there some difference in the lower mounts?[/QUOTE]

[problemchild]

I realize that buying a car and finding weird problems is disillusioning. It pisses you off. I have been there. I once bought a car, which I knew was rough, but I was brought to tears when I got it home and saw how a fine car had been mistreated,

Having said all that, the car can still be a great car for Greg or a new buyer. The car had a fine history. I know because I tried to buy it once. It still probably has lots of goodies on it. For $30K it is really good value. The previous owner bought the car, and then resold it when his plans changed, at a significant loss. I do not know it's history for the previous decade but it looks very clean.

It is very weird that someone went to all the trouble to do a nice job on repairing the chassis but got the dimensions wrong. It crosses my mind that it may have been some "trick" Wendal Miller setup

Now that Greg has vented his frustrations, and others chimed in, it is time to get this car back to fine form and on track. The car is capable of running at the front of any F1600 or FF race in North America. If Greg is willing to part with it, for $30K, someone should gobble it up and run the FRP F1600 series.

[problemchild]

Repair.
If I can suggest, if the mounts were cut off flush where they are attached to the chassis, then welded onto a piece of plate, you could then relocate and weld the plates onto the chassis. Very little further disassembly would be required and a good fabricator would be done in a few hours. It seems like a big problem, but a little creativity would solve it easily. There is no need to strip the chassis or even make new mounts. The question would be "which side geometry do you want to keep."

[GregPeluso]

thank you Mr. Rice… I wish I had the dough for one of your cars!!

Repair.
If I can suggest, if the mounts were cut off flush where they are attached to the chassis, then welded onto a piece of plate, you could then relocate and weld the plates onto the chassis. Very little further disassembly would be required and a good fabricator would be done in a few hours. It seems like a big problem, but a little creativity would solve it easily. There is no need to strip the chassis or even make new mounts. The question would be "which side geometry do you want to keep."

[jrh3]

Did you mount a straight edge across the lower frame rails and get an exact measurement of the heights of the mounts?
Might be interesting to also put one on the rear and check for twist.

[GregPeluso]

We will be doing that once the new mount comes…this is why I stripped so much… easier to measure… if it’s a twist, I really have a problem. I was hoping to get help with compensation but the seller feels that the car was depicted to a “T”. I asked for $2k to help make things right but I must move forward.

[GregPeluso]

STILL for sale? Any takers?

[TimH]

I was hoping to get help with compensation but the seller feels that the car was depicted to a “T”.

"Race ready" = I'm willing to run it that way.

I've sold cars with condition described, roughly, as "this is how it came off the track and I haven't been through it since."

[GregPeluso]

I’m learning someone/or others went to look at the car and walked away when they saw the condition. I just want to fix it or sell it now? Any offers??

[Rick Kirchner]

I posted this experience of mine elsewhere but it's worth repeating here.

For years when I aligned the car, the results were equal side to side - but the measurements to get there were considerably different. there wasn't anything obvious at all.

A few years back I hired Steve Lathrop to model the suspension and this of course required me to make measurements at a level I'd never had to deal with before.

After placing the bare chassis on the floor, striking some reference lines, etc, what was revealed was that the lower suspension pickup points on the gearbox were not symmetrical. I had to add a 1/8"' spacer under one of the shear plates.

Then, after trying to set the front caster, I could not get the right and left sides the same. built a measuring jig and guess what? The A-arm angles were different - only a degree or two, but that's enough. You can't see it until you compare a-arms side by side in a jig.

Hand built stuff can have a lot of variability.....

[problemchild]

Hand built stuff can have a lot of variability.....

Which is why we have adjustments built into the suspension components. Most club racers will never notice slight twists or poor repairs such as on Greg's car. That repair was probably made in a hurry between race events a decade ago and was never noticed, or just ignored, by drivers and mechanics since. I have prepped many cars with twists and imperfections in the chassis, that won races and championships. By understanding the issues, and applying some creativity, I kept my customers spending their resources on going racing and not on doing a frame restoration. That outlook is not for everyone but it is important for people to realize that because some Apexspeed racer insists on having a perfectly square chassis, he does not need that in order to race competitively and have fun. Many perfectionists are not very fast but get their enjoyment from having pristine race cars. To each, his own!

[Rick Kirchner]

In some cases it's less of an issue of perfectionism than it is trying to understand why things are the way they are. Subtle crash damage and repair by previous owner? an actual crack? Parts made by different fabricators? iI'd spent hours over multiple years unbolting, adjusting, re-bolting, re-measuring to try and find the magic spot between parts.

I'm pretty sure I spent less time designing and printing the jig and finding the problem than I did trying to get the thing reasonably symmetrical... And that jig is far better than my old campbell rod ruler in allowing me to jig up parts after replacements.

[ric baribeault]

I feel your pain. I bought a car last year sight unseen with the understanding that it was basically the car I saw at the 50th at Indy. And 30K later, it is.

[GregPeluso]

Well this is what I received from the sellers attorney today….. any racer NY attorneys like to help out with this dilemma ?

[DaveW]

Greg,

The key to all this is the statement of "race-ready." So I will ask you this question: In your honest opinion, could you have taken this car to the track and driven it w/o having something fail to the extent that it couldn't be driven?

I know it was not up to your standards, and based on your description, it wouldn't have been up to mine either.

However, I've seen a lot of cars being raced that I would not have driven because they were poorly prepared competing in races w/o incident.

So, unfortunately, "race-ready" is a matter of opinion.

Having said all that, my opinion of ready to race is only that, my opinion, based on my experience.

It will be difficult to prove that this was a fraudulent transaction, and having seen some folks sue for not getting a fair deal and losing, I would avoid a lawsuit if at all possible. IMO, you will at the least be spending time & $ w/o any guarantee of a good outcome. And if you sue and lose, you will be even more disgruntled.

Again, this is ONLY my opinion and is worth nothing in a court of law.

[GregPeluso]

No, the car could not have been raced…. Plus no logbook

[RadMax]

Dave, I can vouch for both of Greg’s statements.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

No, the car could not have been raced…. Plus no logbook

No logbook is kind of like having no title. I would certainly hammer on that issue.

[Rick Kirchner]

It might be argued that without the Logbook the car is not race ready. Especially true if the Homologation papers are missing as well.

Is the seller withholding them, or are they simply missing?

The other thing would be, would the car have been able to pass annual tech as sold? (just the missing log book says no).

[GregPeluso]

Seller is still looking for logbook , no papers either! …. No the car would not have passed tech …
The seller is the one prolonging the sale… might want to tell his attorney the sale is not completed . I have bought many race cars in the past and have sold many race cars.. this is not my first rodeo.




QUOTE=Rick Kirchner;658076]It might be argued that without the Logbook the car is not race ready. Especially true if the Homologation papers are missing as well.

Is the seller withholding them, or are they simply missing?

The other thing would be, would the car have been able to pass annual tech as sold? (just the missing log book says no).[/QUOTE]

[DaveW]

Dave, I can vouch for both of Greg’s statements.

Max just sent me an email with more detail. I would be very unhappy if I'd bought a car in this bad shape w/o knowing that in advance.

BTW, I know and trust Max - he crewed with me for a while and I trust his word.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Seller is still looking for logbook , no papers either! …. No the car would not have passed tech …
The seller is the one prolonging the sale… might want to tell his attorney the sale is not completed . I have bought many race cars in the past and have sold many race cars.. this is not my first rodeo.

But your first circus
Sorry - couldn't resist.

[Anthony63]

These three log books (2 are tie-wrapped together, just as they were given to me) date back from 4/1998 to the present. These will be mailed to you with tracking.

The reason I sold the car is because my father passed away 6 months ago and his father (my grandfather) passed away almost 2 years now. I was VERY close to my father and grandfather. For those of you who are reading these posts and who know us, you can certainly vouch for who I am and who they were. I started racing go karts when I was 7 years old, always under the mentorship and eyes of my loving family, who always guided me and taught me to do what is right. When my father suddenly died, I no longer desired to keep the car and try to go racing with it alone. The unimaginable number of heartbreaking and life changing tasks that were put on my plate have taken all of my attention away from racing. My mother, siblings and other heartbroken relatives are my focus now, along with my personal career and obligations.

I know what a fast car feels like and there are those in the racing community that can attest to this. I have put down fast times. I know the race-ready condition of this car as I went fast in this one as well.

The logbooks will be sent with tracking.