Swift Formula Atlantic - Need info - rFactor2

[CrivitzChris]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Quick intro, I've been doing modding for years for the various ISI/rFactor based platforms. Mostly with car painting with occasional dabbing of modeling and converting. My rF2 converting works have been the iDT Panoz DP01, iDT Champ Car Lola (Lola B02/00) and updates to the Dallara IL-15 (current IndyLights car).

The last few years attending the SCCA events at Road America, I've been wanting to focus more with the amateur racer. My initial thought was to convert the rF1 Swift 016a. The model was old but workable. But in my thread with the Panoz DP01 conversion, a user previewed an updated Swift 014a model. Seeing that is a better quality model I reached out. Luckily he was willing to provide me what he had. It is in game but needing some work. Another fortunate thing, is that the Swift 014a was also created in rF1. I know that was created at the time with some actual data and some real drivers from Toyota Atlantics tested it.

That rF1 mod was made in 2005-2006. That was a long time ago, and rF2 physics is, let's just say intense. Here is a link to the Physics calculator tool to give an idea of how in depth it goes (https://docs.studio-397.com/develope...lculation-tool)

Somethings with rF1 physics is a direct transfer, but many other things need a refresh. So I'm currently looking for data. I think I've exhausted everything that google has been able to provide. I think I've looked at every sales ad. I saw posts about the aero, suspension and setup manuals. I found some part lists, but not part descriptions/details. I know it is a big ask, but is this something that can be provided or acquired? If it isn't I'll start the laundry list of questions

Another ask is that the user made the Swift 014a, actually has an 016a in progress. His time has been limited, but if he makes it, I would be taking a look at getting that in game as well. So the manuals and information on the 016a would also be appreciated. I would possibly look at converting the rF1 model as a stop gap.

To sum up, this is still very early going. I'm still fairly new when it comes to physics, so results may be questionable. But i'll do what I can and get better. I appreciate everyone's time.

PS: If someone out there has an Elan DP02 3d model that they are willing to share, please let me know. The guys I'm around with at Road America recently added one to the fleet. It's on the list to do, if I can acquire a model or I learn 3d modeling.

[Keith Carter]

Definitely post in the Atlantic forum. A lot of those guys don't lurk in the sim section of the forums, but you'll likely be able to get what you need from some of them. Rennie and Stan Clayton ran a Swift for many years. I can't remember which it was though.

[CrivitzChris]

Definitely post in the Atlantic forum. A lot of those guys don't lurk in the sim section of the forums, but you'll likely be able to get what you need from some of them. Rennie and Stan Clayton ran a Swift for many years. I can't remember which it was though.

Thanks Keith. I had posted in there as well when I wasn't getting too much of a response here. I had a couple people reach out with 014 info. Not much on the 016 yet. But the results for the 014 has been positive

[CrivitzChris]

Sorry for cross posting. Project update in the thread in the FA forums

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post651479

[ace37]

I have a 2014 Elan DP02 with factory bodywork. I just did a quick iPhone scan, but the quality isn’t great. Happy to send it, but again, it’s pretty rough.

I’m an engineer and have plenty of 3D CAD experience, so I may do some higher quality part scans over the winter and slowly build out an assembly model. Keeping scans small scale seems to help phone hardware to get things more accurate. If I get it done I’ll try to share it. A high resolution laser scan of the car overall and the bodywork with connection points would be much better, but I don’t know if I can get that done cheaply enough to have the benefits be worth paying for out of our household money.

But I’d enjoy having the DP02 body show up in a racing sim - far more if the physics were reasonably modeled, but even just the render on a similar car’s technical data would be fun. Also a good CAD model (using a combination of scans and lots of direct physical measurements) would enable bodywork tooling to be built, interfaces, and all that depending on how carefully the work was done.

I don’t know if HRP/Zebulon would be willing to share their upper surface model and data (such as recorded driver lap info) to create a sim race car, but you could always ask.

These guys probably still have the data somewhere. I sent them an email asking about it and didn’t get a reply back. I didn’t try hard or follow up though, so it could have just gone to a former employee’s inbox for all I know.
https://www.laserdesign.com/elan-mot...racer-dilemma/

My local track is also not modeled in any sim, so I grabbed LIDAR data and may try to put that together. I understand modeling and meshing well, but the simulator requirements and how the output data gets utilized are completely foreign to me, so I have a lot to learn before I could do it well.

[CrivitzChris]

I have a 2014 Elan DP02 with factory bodywork. I just did a quick iPhone scan, but the quality isn’t great. Happy to send it, but again, it’s pretty rough.

I’m an engineer and have plenty of 3D CAD experience, so I may do some higher quality part scans over the winter and slowly build out an assembly model. Keeping scans small scale seems to help phone hardware to get things more accurate. If I get it done I’ll try to share it. A high resolution laser scan of the car overall and the bodywork with connection points would be much better, but I don’t know if I can get that done cheaply enough to have the benefits be worth paying for out of our household money.

But I’d enjoy having the DP02 body show up in a racing sim - far more if the physics were reasonably modeled, but even just the render on a similar car’s technical data would be fun. Also a good CAD model (using a combination of scans and lots of direct physical measurements) would enable bodywork tooling to be built, interfaces, and all that depending on how carefully the work was done.

I don’t know if HRP/Zebulon would be willing to share their upper surface model and data (such as recorded driver lap info) to create a sim race car, but you could always ask.

These guys probably still have the data somewhere. I sent them an email asking about it and didn’t get a reply back. I didn’t try hard or follow up though, so it could have just gone to a former employee’s inbox for all I know.
https://www.laserdesign.com/elan-mot...racer-dilemma/

My local track is also not modeled in any sim, so I grabbed LIDAR data and may try to put that together. I understand modeling and meshing well, but the simulator requirements and how the output data gets utilized are completely foreign to me, so I have a lot to learn before I could do it well.

I'd love to take what you are willing to provide. I saw that laser scan site pop up several times and it does seem to be dated. I figured i would get the same answers that you have gotten. Even getting a simple 3d model representation would be a plus. I was thinking of reaching out to HRP. But I want to make sure I had a good start on the gaming side before doing that.

I'm not sure if you have any specific tech documents on the DP02. I don't think I have actual downforce or drag numbers. I haven't gotten any info on the 016a yet. The info for the Swift is in their documents, that I haven't been able to get in my hands. So I'm thinking once I get the 014a complete, I might work on the Pro Formula Mazda. I have data on that from the Star website. I have a couple models of it from rFactor that I can convert over. I believe a majority of DP02 info is the same as the PFM. The team that I'm around with at Road America is a rotary powered, Star PFM chassis numbered DP02. That should provide the base for me to start on the DP02. I thinking everything else should fall into place then. Lots of work but so little time

[ace37]

I'd love to take what you are willing to provide. I saw that laser scan site pop up several times and it does seem to be dated. I figured i would get the same answers that you have gotten. Even getting a simple 3d model representation would be a plus. I was thinking of reaching out to HRP. But I want to make sure I had a good start on the gaming side before doing that.

I'm not sure if you have any specific tech documents on the DP02. I don't think I have actual downforce or drag numbers. I haven't gotten any info on the 016a yet. The info for the Swift is in their documents, that I haven't been able to get in my hands. So I'm thinking once I get the 014a complete, I might work on the Pro Formula Mazda. I have data on that from the Star website. I have a couple models of it from rFactor that I can convert over. I believe a majority of DP02 info is the same as the PFM. The team that I'm around with at Road America is a rotary powered, Star PFM chassis numbered DP02. That should provide the base for me to start on the DP02. I thinking everything else should fall into place then. Lots of work but so little time

I’ve seen that car, looks like fun. I’d rather have a longer service interval on my motor so I get it.

Send me a PM with your email and I’ll try to get a link of the crude scan over to you. Despite the poor quality it’s quite a large file. More importantly, if I get or build anything better in the near term I’ll try to pass it along.

I don’t have anything at all on the car unfortunately. Kevin at Comprent may be a person to ask. Also there’s a Facebook group called Mulsanne’s Corner that you may want to join and ask around in. Some of the guys there worked on the DP02, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the same is true for the Swifts. If you find anything on the DP02 I’d love a copy.

Agreed on downforce and drag. For drag I don’t even have a good top speed and hp number. I’ve heard 170+ mph but I don’t know if that’s a theoretical top from drag or a real or theoretical number after a long straight of some specific distance, and they had a bit more power with the 2.3L motor earlier on. For downforce I see 700+ lbs thrown around a few places but always without context - no speed (150mph?), and no configuration info (aero changes). I’m not sure if the early DP02 cars had tunnels, so the downforce may have changed quite a bit over the life of the series. The wheel vents and paddle shifting were added later, and the Duratec 2.3 to 2.0 MZR was another better documented change. The Formula X cars that preceded the DP02 don’t appear to have had tunnels at all, and if they were added to the DP02 as an update rather than at the beginning of the series, the 700 lbs figure may be pretty useless even with a good reference speed.

As a prototype I would expect (all else equal) the DP02 to have considerably higher aerodynamic efficiency than the PFM (better L/D ratio). My intuition would say it would have both less drag and more downforce, but that’s not certain. I understand the series DP02 shocks are more sophisticated (not sure) and the car is a little wider so the wishbones are longer. But yes the tubs and the wheel carriers are so similar they can be interchanged, and the rear suspension to chassis pickups are on the transaxle which is the same for both cars. If you get this far I’ll be happy to measure the front pickup points and we would quickly see if they are the same or not. If you check the IMSA data and compare it to the PFM race results you’ll find the time spread between drivers with the DP02 was quite large, so weather and other factors aside, it’s difficult to know how well the published lap times represent the ultimate capability of the car. (Maybe my memory is off, but I remember seeing 0.1 second splits for the PFM and on the order of 1 second for the DP02!) I think the DP02 is supposed to be similar to or slightly quicker than the PFM in most circumstances, but the lap times I found sometimes showed the PFM ran faster laps. But those splits….

Because iRacing has a PFM, you may be able to check your model by running their version of the car on a track you know and downloading telemetry.

Sorry I have nothing for you on your main question!