PAXing at the Nationals

[CM/FFdriver]

Hello All,

So I'm going through all the results because I look at the pax numbers too and I try to put in perspective the CM class and how the class ranks in the pax numbers. So to put some classes in line with the CM class and how you can judge yourself to other classes nation wide it looks something like this

CM 116.080
What they finish
SS 125.171 (+9.091) 124.976 8.896 behind in pax
HS 132.178 (+16.098) 134.649 18.569 ahead in pax
STU 125.322 (+9.242) 126.183 10.103 ahead in pax
DSP 123.094 (+7.014) 121.868 5.788 behind in pax
XP 117.392 (+1.392) 116.895 .815 behind in pax
CP 121.653 (+5.573) 119.324 3.244 behind in pax
BM 105.153 (-10.927) 106.728 9.153 ahead in pax
FM 114.418 (-1.662) 112.808 3.272 behind in pax

as you can see the CM class is behind in a lot more classes but these are the main ones I look at. I could do research for a lot more years but I'm not going to do that because I look ahead (lol) but the data is there and these numbers are what Motivates me every year.

Ben

[Purple Frog]

After much study to learn what PAXing in autocross meant to us unwashed, I now understand why a Crosley Hot Shot was declared the winner of the 1950 Sebring race even though it didn't cover the most laps.

[Dave Harmison]

To save clicks, I also searched a bit and found out that PAX, as you may have guessed, is a handicapping method developed by Rick Ruth according to this site.
https://www.solotime.info/pax/rtp2016.html

What it doesn’t tell me is any detail on how this handicap is determined other than “from the study of results”.

[bassracer]

What it doesn’t tell me is any detail on how this handicap is determined other than “from the study of results”.

Rick and the general solo community have built trust over the years with whatever non-transparent methods are used. For the most part, it works because the sport allows opportunity to choose your path of in-class racing or calculated PAX racing. It does not please everyone, but seems to stay well-suited enough to keep the sport going especially the ProSolo series.

[stonebridge20]

Green flag......Go

First person to see the Checkered flag.......wins

[chrisw52]

To save clicks, I also searched a bit and found out that PAX, as you may have guessed, is a handicapping method developed by Rick Ruth according to this site.
https://www.solotime.info/pax/rtp2016.html

What it doesn’t tell me is any detail on how this handicap is determined other than “from the study of results”.

It's determined in the time honored tradition of political technicalities and whom ever complains the loudest. (I generally don't bother with PAX)

[Dave Harmison]

Just to be clear, I’m not a solo competitor. I only asked because I spent the majority of my career doing data analysis and I have professional curiosity.

Please don’t start any fights over anything I said.

[CM/FFdriver]

Just to be clear, I’m not a solo competitor. I only asked because I spent the majority of my career doing data analysis and I have professional curiosity.

Please don’t start any fights over anything I said.

Hello Dave,

Yes these are based on results but they are a good tool to judge your results with other people from your region and others (because we get people from the LA region that come to Crows) as we all start off the season on old tires and new set ups so the pax numbers are way off but as the season go's we all work together to have new tires at the same time to bring in the pax numbers in line.

To put an example of what I look at, 2021 I was .100 to .300 ahead of Andy McKee in his Mazda Rx7 multiple National Champion in the XP class all season long at the SFR region and felt really good about going to the 2021 Nationals. The 2022 season was different at the start I was off by more than a 1.000, work on the season to get within .300 but felt like I didn't have what it will take to win in 2022.

There are A lot more National Champions I compare too but Andy is the best for his consistency every weekend and that's why you see all the different classes on the first post. Most of this was out of necessity because there was no one in my Class on the west coast so we beat on each other every weekend to push each other to go fast (i guess) Last year my co-driver and I did 200 autocross laps.

Now to the point I was trying to make on my first post. The CM class is slow at the National level so was trying to give people in my class motivation to work harder to see what we can bring next year.

Ben

[TedV]

Just to be clear, I’m not a solo competitor. I only asked because I spent the majority of my career doing data analysis and I have professional curiosity.

Please don’t start any fights over anything I said.

If you wish to look at PAX and you have any history of data analysis and any logical thinking, just stop now and drink massive amounts of alcoholic beverages. You will be better off. The results used are cherry picked. Not all events are used, only those deemed worthy are.

I quit looking at PAX when it was said, "the site pavement was sub par and the results will not be included in the PAX data" Do I need to say more?

[griceiv]

Just to be clear, I’m not a solo competitor. I only asked because I spent the majority of my career doing data analysis and I have professional curiosity.

Please don’t start any fights over anything I said.

Rick Ruth talks about his method in this podcast.
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcas...=1000531927614
(i just picked the apple link, there are others if you search for "pax rtp podcast")

[Jim Garry]

IMO, pax is an ok tool to use to ROUGHLY see how well you and your car did against everyone else across classes. But due to several issues, it shouldn't be taken seriously and used for precise comparisons and placing of anyone's efforts.

It pax shows there are 20 drivers crowded one second above and below me, those twenty one were essentially tied.

But using it to determine champions as is done in Pro Solo is extremely sketchy.

But to get back to Ben's original post, I'd agree it shows that the recent CM participation is generally a bit off the pace. I wouldn't use any other more exact description.

EDIT: My statement in the previous paragraph is based on equal conditions. I was not able to attend this year's Nationals and do not have information to say if weather and pavement conditions during the CM heat were equal with other heats. They probably were within some reasonable and small range but I don't know.

[B17overhead]

[QUOTE=Jim Garry;
But using it to determine champions as is done in Pro Solo is extremely sketchy.
.[/QUOTE]
Many years ago, before I had a B-Mod car and was running well Nationally in F-Mod, I noticed that the Pro-Solo index for B-Mod had been pushed up a lot higher than the B- Mod Solo index, making Pro-solo wins by a B-Mod car REALLY tough. I called Rick Ruth and asked about it and he said "Pro-Solo Mod classes are hard to establish good indexes because we have so few data points. I pushed up the Pro-solo index for next year because B-Mod cars have really large rear tires"

[Lynn]

Rick Ruth hasn't had anything to do with the Pro Solo index for several years. It is determined by the National office.

[t walgamuth]

From my own observation the cm has little or no chance to win on the current pax values.