GeoSky Alert going out of business- what to do?

[fitfan]

By now everyone has likely received notification that GeoSky is going out of business and will end all operations end of December this year…. Sad.

so what to do? I emailed them asking if anyone was picking up the tracking service side of the hardware, but have no answer yet on that. I just cut the hardware into my new trailer a month ago… sigh….

anyone have any insider info on if the hardware becomes garbage? Or if there is another tracking service that can support it? Or?

[fitfan]

…Nobody???

[Bardahl77]

I did a little search and one of the partners in GeoSky also has his own little racing thing with Datsuns. Try rcarter@rcnetworks.net and see if he's still involved and knows anything.

I hate these companies that set you up with stuff in the "cloud" and then when they go belly up after getting a bunch of cash out of people buying the hardware and just shut everything down. Happened to several "home automation" companies that did wi-fi enabled thermostats and other stuff. And a good-sized game company just said they're shutting down their service soon, at least they have other profit centers and are offering refunds to people who purchased the hardware.

Good luck!

(BTW found at website https://rcnetworksracing.wordpress.com)

[Rick Kirchner]

Apple air tag?

[DaveW]

...I hate these companies that set you up with stuff in the "cloud" and then when they go belly up after getting a bunch of cash out of people buying the hardware and just shut everything down. Happened to several "home automation" companies that did wi-fi enabled thermostats and other stuff...

I think many of these went into it in good faith thinking they could make a continuously-profitable business doing it. When they found that there weren't enough subscriptions to keep it at least "break-even" after the initial hardware sales, they couldn't continue since they were bleeding $. It is bad that those who bought hardware are now stuck with expensive stuff that is essentially worthless.

[jchracer]

I think many of these went into it in good faith thinking they could make a continuously-profitable business doing it. When they found that there weren't enough subscriptions to keep it at least "break-even" after the initial hardware sales, they couldn't continue since they were bleeding $. It is bad that those who bought hardware are now stuck with expensive stuff that is essentially worthless.

I think the predatory business practices of Apple (airtags) and other huge corporations may have something to do with the the little guys going belly up.....

[DanW]

I have a hard time considering the use of an air tag or tile for a trailer since it depends on proximity to a smartphone and a signal. The GPS/cellular systems provide much better coverage and nearly immediate notification (within 60 seconds or less) that the door is open or the trailer is moved 300ft.

I think the business remains viable but the marketing needs a significant boost. Below is the email I received from one of the principals of the company when I inquired if the company assets and IP were for sale:

"Thanks for your kind words and my apologies for the delayed response, I’ve been sifting through emails and trying to catch up. We’ve had similar interest from a few people since we announced the sundown so I’ve put together a bit of a company overview. I’ll try to cover the salient info thoroughly but briefly. The business is highly automated with a robust administration back-end interface. Unit activation and subscription management is automated including a dealer activation portal. This was put together modularly over the years and eventually fully integrated in a full system update in 2019, primarily written in Typescript.

We have used CalAmp hardware from the beginning of this project because of its reliability and durability but have not sold hardware for the past year due first to supply issues then policy changes from CalAmp. They’ve changed their pricing model a bit which will need to be reflected in an updated pricing model for GeoSky Alert. We’ve also transitioned all customers to monthly subscriptions over the past year to eliminate pre-paid service obligations.

GeoSkyGPS, Inc. – CO S Corp (can be transferred or closed with transfer of IP/Brand/Customers)
Unencumbered. No debt and no external software dependencies. Founded 2012
GeoSky Alert Current Active Customers: 248
Monthly Gross Revenue (subscription sales only @ $17.99): $4460
Monthly Operational and Administrative Overhead: $864 – (Server, SIM data, Office, Quickbooks)
Net Profit: $3596/mo.

These are minimal operational overhead costs but do include everything necessary at current rates. Two years ago, we began hosting the map server in-house because Google Maps (which we had used previously) API calls became charged, at a surprisingly high rate. The map server is intensive and Google has changed their pricing so a transition back to Google Maps is recommended.

We haven’t purchased or sold hardware in the past year and as I described that landscape has changed a bit. I can give you some rough ideas of costs:
CalAmp LMU-2631 LTE is going to be $145-150 which should include the first year of OTA firmware platform access. Afterwards there is an $18-20/yr fee per device for this service. This used to be a one-time cost of $125 with no ongoing fees.
Wiring harnesses we’ve had custom made in the past for around $3/ea.
External antennas (bulkhead and adhesive) are $15-20. The bulkhead antennas we’ve used for trailers are only dual band but have continued to perform well. Comparable alternative quad band antennas are closer to $80/ea.

That’s the basics. We don’t have much inventory beyond some packaging. Based on the revenue and nature of the business we believe that $50,000 would be a fair price. My partner Mike who programmed the system is willing to help perform a system migration and set-up, negotiated directly with him."

[Bardahl77]

Hokey smokes, if that's the income they're getting and which such a tiny user base, I don't know how they can afford to do any booth works or sponsorship stuff. And writing the system in TypeScript? That's like building a trailer out of Legos.

For the original poster, maybe the hardware will work on someone else's system? Otherwise I'd just go ahead and eat it and go with another provider that seems to be more robust and stable, like maybe a Spot Trace. I'm going to need one for my trailer next year.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

That’s the basics. We don’t have much inventory beyond some packaging. Based on the revenue and nature of the business we believe that $50,000 would be a fair price. My partner Mike who programmed the system is willing to help perform a system migration and set-up, negotiated directly with him."

Based on the revenue? What revenue! They've already told the customers goodbye - go away !

The only plea to existing customers is to cut the price and beg them to stay.

I've seen so many niche small businesses like this 'sundown' and with the owners willing to walk away suddenly consider the business valuable. Good luck.

[DanW]

Based on the revenue? What revenue! They've already told the customers goodbye - go away !

The only plea to existing customers is to cut the price and beg them to stay.

I've seen so many niche small businesses like this 'sundown' and with the owners willing to walk away suddenly consider the business valuable. Good luck.

Monthly Gross Revenue (subscription sales only @ $17.99): $4460
Monthly Operational and Administrative Overhead: $864 – (Server, SIM data, Office, Quickbooks)
Net Profit: $3596/mo.

Yes, not much revenue, but there is profit enough to support good targeted marketing.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Yes, not much revenue, but there is profit enough to support good targeted marketing.

But they already told customers they were closing down in 3 months!
They don't know someone might buy the company so I don't think many will stick it out.

[DanW]

But they already told customers they were closing down in 3 months!
They don't know someone might buy the company so I don't think many will stick it out.

Agree, they should have tried selling the business first. Many have or will vote with their feet.

[Richard Hybels]

I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground about anything tech but if they even doubled the number of subscribers would that not make it profitable enough to make sense?
If so, just marketing to all the various racing bulletin boards including the tons drag racers and circle track folks in this country would seem likely to generate another lousy 250 customers. Even truck rental outfits are probably losing rigs.
there must be a racer out there with enough bread to get this going.
I never got around to getting Geosky because I live at the end of a cul de sac, have 4 locks on my trailer and block it in with my truck but I’m scared to death of having my TPD stolen.
Googling “stolen classic race cars” reveals some hideous stories many of which say the truck and trailer were stolen. Cars and trucks are apparently easy to steal these days but a hidden kill switch is a cheap way to prevent it. I need to get on that!

[fitfan]

update since i started this thread. after looking into various options i decided there were 3 things i wanted:
1 - 60 second or less pings. (many seem to be 1 hour or 1 day pings, thats not gonna help track a trailer until its been parked somewhere...)
2 - hardwired / waterproof, to get "constant live" pings, its needs power
3 - good app, tracker maps, etc..


what i got and so far i'm really happy with is this:
https://optimustracker.com/collectio...s-boats-assets

ordered it on amazon and got it next day and had it installed before dark and left at 5am next morning. working like a champ and i say "similar to but a bit better" than geosky.

hardware is like $55 bux complete. subscription is $13 bux a month

reports / pings every 30 second, live. does text and or email alerts, geo fencing, etc.

another thing i like about this is its a bit of a direct'ish replacement for the geosky, that is, i just removed the geosky antenna and the brain box, and i re-used my hardwire power leads. re-used the cable hole in my trailer roof (although i made a "plate" to mount this to, and stuffed the cable down the hole and sealed it all up). including fabricating the mounting plate i spent about 2 hours all in including the activation process. only down side is the unit only has one mounting tab, hence why i made a plate to attach the unit to, and then attached and sealed the plate to the trailer.

everything is in the one unit case, not two separate units like geosky, more bands, more modern, smaller form factor. so id rate it as same or better performance, more modern (better?) hardware, better form factor with one box (no cable leads, just wire harness leads. app seems a little more modern / updated as well.

just passing on my time spent investigating a "drop in" replacement with live 30 second alerts, a good app, and very fairly priced hardware and subscription. no knowledge or relationship to Optimus, found them after many hours of looking aorund, reading mostly useless reviews.

[DanW]

@fitfan, thanks. I just received a dewalt mobilelock alarm and setting it up for my trailer. It has some good features but the service plan is more expensive @ $20/month.

[E1pix]

Thanks for your followup, fitfan!

We have put off a system for too long so will look at your choice.

We may await SpotTrace improvements that are likely well in the pipeline, since they’re now deeply in bed with Apple — and Apple covered the room charges. (see GSAT)

[BeerBudgetRacing]

what i got and so far i'm really happy with is this:
https://optimustracker.com/collectio...s-boats-assets

ordered it on amazon and got it next day and had it installed before dark and left at 5am next morning. working like a champ and i say "similar to but a bit better" than geosky.

hardware is like $55 bux complete. subscription is $13 bux a month

Is there a reason you placed it on the roof exposed? The manual mentions 'concealing the unit'.

Does it work inside the trailer?

[Rick Kirchner]

Is there a reason you placed it on the roof exposed? The manual mentions 'concealing the unit'.

Does it work inside the trailer?

Yeah, you would think that the correct packaging would be inside a marker light or a fake work light.

I've been getting FB ads for a company that has similar logos to GeoSky and is focused on the rental fleet market. Given the level of theft there and for contractor and gardener trailers you'd think there would be a huge market out there for this, but maybe they decide to just lean on insurance.

[fitfan]

Is there a reason you placed it on the roof exposed? The manual mentions 'concealing the unit'.

Does it work inside the trailer?

they make a couple different units for different applications. The one I have is the weather proof “this side to sky not placed behind metal” gps antenna unit. Since I already had the hole in the roof from the GeoSky, i wanted the roof antenna.

For sure that unit is meant to be mounted outside. If I decide I need to cover it. A small fiberglass cover will do the trick.

[fitfan]

another follow up - i've been getting multiple false movement alarms throughout the day.. and so i called their support number and...

a human answered?! i asked if they had time to help me set up my alarms, they said yes?!! we spent about 10 mins setting up my geofence alerts (i messed that up) and then she suggested pushing an update to the unit to have a little less sensitivity and said "call back if that doesn't work or you want to make other changes". nice!

[fitfan]

Thanks for your follow up, fitfan!

We have put off a system for too long so will look at your choice.

We may await SpotTrace improvements that are likely well in the pipeline, since they’re now deeply in bed with Apple — and Apple covered the room charges. (see GSAT)

that was my second option. just due to hardware and subscription being more expensive.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

they make a couple different units for different applications. The one I have is the weather proof “this side to sky not placed behind metal” gps antenna unit. Since I already had the hole in the roof from the GeoSky, i wanted the roof antenna.

For sure that unit is meant to be mounted outside. If I decide I need to cover it. A small fiberglass cover will do the trick.

My concern with your install is that it could easily be removed by a thief. Concealment is the only prevention for that.

So I'm been having a conversation with their sales department this week.

I asked " Can the GV75, GV50 and GB100 be installed inside an enclosed trailer? Aluminum skinned with steel supports. Can it still receive the GPS signal? I ask because someone told me it had to be installed on the roof."

Reply: "None of our trackers will receive signal if they are completely enclosed in metal. You will experience frequent signal lost which will cause a huge delay in reporting and sending alerts.

We don't recommend installing the tracker on top of the roof as it will be exposed to the forces of nature which can cause the tracker to get damaged and stop working. The trackers can withstand up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit but constant exposure to the sun will damage the unit."

I asked: "Since the roof is not recommended and inside the trailer is not recommended, what do you recommend for installing in a box/enclosed trailer? Do you have enclosures? "

reply: "We do have portable trackers with a magnetic case that can be placed outside and underneath the trailer. The magnets on our cases are very strong and need a strong force to take them off. Our 3.0 has a battery life up to one month before you need to recharge again. Same with our wired trackers, if they are placed inside of a metal box or and enclosed trailer, the device"

I asked: "Still a little confused. Are the portable units totally different tech? If a portable one works underneath a trailer (so signal is received through a roof, floor, and a bunch of surrounding steel and unspecific cargo) but the wired one doesn’t?"

Reply: "If the portable device is placed under the vehicle with the magnetic case, the signals would bounce off the ground to help the device report. If the device is placed inside an enclosed trailer, the signals would be enclosed as well and would struggle to report properly. If you have a wired device, the unit would have to be connected to power. The GB100 we would normally recommend connecting the unit directly to the battery and placing the unit on top of the battery as this helps the unit gain the signals needed. If the unit is inside the trailer, this could cause the device to lose signal and not report properly. The GV50 and GV75 could also be near the battery or in the dash of the vehicle for the best signal strength. This is what is recommended for the best signal strength. If you have a portable device, you could try to put the unit in the trailer and if the unit struggles to report, move the device to a different location. The magnets of the waterproof case are strong and would be difficult to remove and can easily be placed under the trailer."
I guess my questions were clear

I haven't replied again. They seem to want to sell portable units
Never knew a battery was a good signal booster/antenna.

I looked at the GB100 unit since it's a simple power only wire in and they suggest mounting it physically on the battery. Well, that is commonly under a steel hood.

There seems to be a bunch of these same units with different names on them. Monthly cost is the difference. Optimus has the best monthly cost on some units.

I'll probably buy one off Amazon and return it if it doesn't work inside my trailer.

[E1pix]

that was my second option. just due to hardware and subscription being more expensive.

To expand on my earlier post, my concern with most of these devices is the GPS tracker is only half of the equation...

Anyone tracking a stolen trailer or vehicle has to have a solid cell signal to track it. Same goes for any law enforcement trying to determine the location of the stolen item.

This factor is the only reason I’ve waited for a satellite cell solution. That wait may already be over.

While I’m no fan of Apple or any giant company having too much market share, in this case I don’t care nearly as much about equipment costs or monthly fees as I am about a successful resolution if theft occurs. The flavor of the month or the cheapest option is not in that interest in my opinion.

Apple recently committed nearly a *half-billion dollars* of investment in Globalstar, starting with launching satellites to support a new program where newer, applicable iPhones can use satellite-on-demand to make phone calls where no cell exists. I do not yet know but can only presume this could now, or soon will, mean one can track a stolen item using an iPhone on Globalstar satellites for SpotTrace use.

Only an opinion here, but I can’t imagine Apple spending that kind of dough on only emergency calls. Instead, I do believe the emergency calling is but a segue for Apple soon developing a satellite phone network to compete against Musk’s network...

Globalstar’s SpotTrace products can only benefit from any of these scenario’s, on a level few if any startups can *ever* compete with. The insult of being thieved is bad enough. But compound it with a cheap tracker failing on the one day we need it and personally I couldn’t ever forgive myself.

[rvrrat]

Another inexpensive option is the Apple Air tag. It uses other Apple devices to track the devices. While not perfect and has its limitations, it works very well while being small and easy to hide.

Just another option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve Davis]

I've been using this https://trak-4.com/ for some time (VIR Runoffs last year) and it seems to work pretty well - after I changed over to 1 MINUTE reports. The slower reporting (1 hour) is not worth the effort since the trailer would be long gone before you received a report beyond the GeoFence exit. I have spoken to the owners about an AUTO-RATE that would report only once per day .. UNTIL the trailer moved and then automatically change over to the higher rate. They said they would 'consider it'. But it works. I'm moderately able to track myself from the time it leaves my GeoFence until it returns. I receive only TEXT NOTICES of GeoFence exit/entry.. but I can go to the website and see the minute by minute reports as the trailer moves down the road. So far, it's always been ME towing it, but the data is there on the web. I bought a new plastic breakaway battery box with enough extra room for the tracker. It works and reports daily even though it's under a metal awning, though it sometimes uses the CELL PHONE info for approximate location instead of the internal GPS .. kinda alternates from under the awning.

I'm hardwired into the breakaway battery, but I did run it for some 6 months or so disconnected (after charging it for a few days) just to see. It reported 100% battery life for about 4 months before it started to go down (it was sitting on the dash of my truck), but the battery was still plenty strong (>90%) a couple of months later when I finally moved it to the trailer and wired it in. I figure it MIGHT be found by thieves some time later .. well after they are way gone from whereever they stole the truck, but unlikely they would find it before stealing it. There's NO visible indication from outside the box. I mounted it to the hinged LID of the box .. so the box can be OPENED and LOOKED INTO and the device MIGHT not even be noticed unless they were specifically searching for such.

ymmv,
Steve, FV80
PS follow up. You could easily mount this thing on the roof of a trailer and cover it with a 'roof vent' cover .. even if you just GLUE the vent cover to the roof.. could also punch a small hole to the inside to access 12v power.