Fuel Cell Replacement Time

[wake74]

Went out to the shop to do a bit of prep to go to a test day at VIR next weekend and had a not pleasant surprise. Leaking fuel. Got to a reasonably sized leak in the cell somewhere. So I pull the fuel cell on my RF81 (81 Van Diemen), and remove the back cover. Whatever the bladder is covered with is coming off in big chunks. No idea how old the bladder is, but I’m guessing well past it’s use by date. I have not pulled bladder out yet for a better inspection. There are also chunks of something in the bottom of the cell. The foam itself appears to be in very good shape.

My options:

1. Replace the bladder and can with a stock size from Fuel Safe. I could probably make one of their stock sizes work, which would facilitate future replacement. Looks like that would be about a grand, between the cell and the can. Downside is the off-set fill port is helpful to clear the seat on the cell I have now. Looks to be a couple of week lead time.

2. Get ATL and Fuel Safe to quote a custom bladder. Unknown price and lead time. Presumably more cost and longer than #1, but would retain the stock dimensions.

Any words of wisdom here?

[DanW]

Contact Fuel Safe or ATL (now both owned by ATL). Tell them what you have, or better yet take photos from several angles as in your photos. They will either have you send the old enclosure and cell or just the cell to them and they will make you a new one. They can use your old hardware, so that will be a savings to you.

If you go the all new route, you will still need to make a new cover, so the cost and time may be a wash.

This is much better than no cell at all. My old Zink came with an alu tank only. I mocked a new cell up in cardboard, took measurements and my son made a CAD drawing for me. Fuel Safe did a great job building me a custom cell. The GCRs call for the fuel cell to be "covered" which simplfies the install, but it's still materials and some basic fabrication.

[Rick Kirchner]

I bet that was a fuel safe replacement cell. They use that kind of hard, clear material for the cover. ATL is a thin, buff colored material and ATS and Premier use black neoprene.

I wonder how they managed to get it in the container - their stuff is pretty stiff.

Both ATL and Fuel Safe used to suck at maintaining a record of the cells they made and the chassis they went into. In ATL's case the US arm and the UK arm didn't really communicate. But that appears to have gotten better over the last decade, so if you provide a previous owner's name and can find the build date and number on the cell you might get lucky.

[wake74]

[wake74]

I pulled it out this morning, foam looks to be very fresh replacement, but cell is…..wait for it……17 years old! So probably due for a refresh.

It was made by Fuel Safe, and the Serial Number is still legible. I’m hoping they keep the records so they can just make up a new one from old template.

Will be reaching out to PyroTech, Fuel Safe, and ATL (though I got some not pleasant reviews via PM about them).

Took a closer look at the Fuel Safe “stock” wedge cells. They are all too wide to go in between the lower frame rails, although that would have been the easy button, both now and in the future. The 13” clear between the frame rails rules out the stock wedge cells from ATL as well.

Let’s hope this isn’t a multi-month process, or I may be done for this year.

[stonebridge20]

This is who I use for cells. No complaints on either service or price on custom cells. All cells are FIA certified.

https://www.harmonracingcells.com/

[wake74]

Thanks for that lead. I’ll reach out to them tomorrow. Any idea what I should expect for a lead time?

This is who I use for cells. No complaints on either service or price on custom cells. All cells are FIA certified.

https://www.harmonracingcells.com/

[Rick Kirchner]

While the cell is out, drill and chamfer from the inside 4 holes in the container (each corner) so that any fuel that spills down into the container has a place to go.

When you get the new cell make sure there's an access plate. Its sort of a double-edged sword, you have the potential for leaks but it makes changing the foam much easier. There are several coatings available from aircraft spruce that will help with minimizing leakage from the plate.

[stonebridge20]

Thanks for that lead. I’ll reach out to them tomorrow. Any idea what I should expect for a lead time?

The last one I got from them was 4 weeks but it was a fairly odd shape cell.

That was before Covid flipped the world upside-down so who knows now.

[Cpines]

Try EMC, Eagle Manufacturing Corp. Eagle River, Wi 715.479.1513 When I bought my Argo, the prior owner had purchased a new fuel cell from them. He got it in 3/2019 for $750, I recently installed it for the first time during the rebuild of the car. I was wondering how long it would last once fueled? The tank is wedge shaped so fit was critical but was also totally rubber material, nice tank! I don't know if this would work for your application[.

[wake74]

While the cell is out, drill and chamfer from the inside 4 holes in the container (each corner) so that any fuel that spills down into the container has a place to go.

When you get the new cell make sure there's an access plate. Its sort of a double-edged sword, you have the potential for leaks but it makes changing the foam much easier. There are several coatings available from aircraft spruce that will help with minimizing leakage from the plate.

The can currently has holes in the bottom as you describe. The 12 hole plate in the back (that has the fuel pick-up) serves as the access plate for the foam. I was able to pull it out pretty easily. Whomever installed it, did it in four wedge shaped pieces a couple of inches wide. Seemed to work okay.

[wake74]

Of the four folks I reached out to, 3 have already contacted me back, and 2 provided quotes. Apparently one of them manufacturers fuel cells from nothing but the best virgin unicorn hairs :-) I was not expecting such a range of pricing for what is a fairly simple cell. I’ll give the other two a day or so, before pulling the trigger. Either way, doesn’t look like I’ll make any events in August or September, so next up is a VDCA event at RRR in early December :-(

[MrJackson]

Of the four folks I reached out to, 3 have already contacted me back, and 2 provided quotes. Apparently one of them manufacturers fuel cells from nothing but the best virgin unicorn hairs :-) I was not expecting such a range of pricing for what is a fairly simple cell. I’ll give the other two a day or so, before pulling the trigger. Either way, doesn’t look like I’ll make any events in August or September, so next up is a VDCA event at RRR in early December :-(

I just installed a custom bladder from Pyrotect in my Van Diemen RF84, and I am very satisfied with their work. I sent them my can, had a few conversations with them about design details, and they sent me the whole thing back with a new bladder and certification paperwork, all in about six weeks time for a pretty reasonable price. I'm quite happy with them.

[Craig71188]

I used Eagle in WI for my last cell, when I contacted them earlier this year they were not doing any automotive cells at that time - may have changed by now. Currently Pyrotect is doing a pair of cells for me. about the same cost as Eagle (WAY less the ATL/Fuel Safe), but they were over 10 weeks out when I sent them. Spoke to them last week and they are still very short handed and will likely end up closer to 12 weeks to get mine.

[veeten]

X2 for Pyrotech
They reused my old Fuel safe hardware and copied my cell .
Purchased 2 of them from Fred Clark at Caracal Cars in Jacksonville Fla.
Good price and fast service

[wake74]

Based upon all the rave reviews, great response time to emails, and their reasonable price, the can and old bladder are now in Mark’s hands over at Pyrotech. They are forecasting a ship date of early October, so about 8 weeks. So unless I can mooch a guest pass off one of the VIR club members, I won’t get back on track until RRR with the VDCA in December. But at least it will be fixed right.

[helipilot04]

For anyone in the north east that needs a cell, Jeff Adams (NE FV guy) turned me on to Schultz Engineering Products in New Jersey. Craig Mitchell (8457429244) is the sales rep, very nice guy, they are all dirt track guys, so they are racers too. They mainly do aviation fuel cell products but are totally equipped to complete any racing cell as well. They only need your aluminum case to make a new cell for it.. I'm currently in the process with them, So hopefully ill be able to say more good things when its done.

Cheers,
Bob

[Coppertop401401]

I had the same issue with my 76 LeGrand MK21. Ran a great test day at Buttonwillow and decided to fill the cell at the end of the day. Woke up next day only to find a puddle of fuel under my car. The bladder inside the aluminum wedge box was so old it could not hold the weigh of a full load. I only recently acquired the car so no idea how old the bladder was. So drilled out all the rivets and peeled back the skin only find a bladder build in 1984. Ordered a new FC150 5 gallon from ATL for $770.00 shipped and about a three (3) week lead time.




QUOTE=wake74;642639]Went out to the shop to do a bit of prep to go to a test day at VIR next weekend and had a not pleasant surprise. Leaking fuel. Got to a reasonably sized leak in the cell somewhere. So I pull the fuel cell on my RF81 (81 Van Diemen), and remove the back cover. Whatever the bladder is covered with is coming off in big chunks. No idea how old the bladder is, but I’m guessing well past it’s use by date. I have not pulled bladder out yet for a better inspection. There are also chunks of something in the bottom of the cell. The foam itself appears to be in very good shape.

My options:

1. Replace the bladder and can with a stock size from Fuel Safe. I could probably make one of their stock sizes work, which would facilitate future replacement. Looks like that would be about a grand, between the cell and the can. Downside is the off-set fill port is helpful to clear the seat on the cell I have now. Looks to be a couple of week lead time.

2. Get ATL and Fuel Safe to quote a custom bladder. Unknown price and lead time. Presumably more cost and longer than #1, but would retain the stock dimensions.

Any words of wisdom here?





[/QUOTE]

[billtebbutt]

(embarrassing)

Uh, the fuel cell in my RF 90 is the original one. Foam is great, no leaks or abrasions on the outside surface of it. It was made by Fuel Safe, and repaired by them in 1992 (there is a painted-on note to that effect). It "appears" to be in great shape. I keep removing it at the end of each season, cleaning it up, wondering if I should replace it, and then just stick it in for another season.

Its not like this car hasn't been raced over the years, either. So I am wondering if/when I should retire the cell? Is there a reason (besides misplaced fear) that I should replace it before it tells me to do so in no uncertain terms?

cheers,
BT

[wake74]

Just wanted to close out this thread. Pyrotech did just what they said they would and shipped it back to me literally the day they forecasted. All communication was quick and friendly. They actually appeared to want the work. Didn’t take payment before it was finished, I actually think it was on the road when the lady in AR called looking for a credit card. When compared to the other prices I got and the lack of timely communication, this was a no brainer.