New to F1000

[Michael Lensen]

I am new to F1000 and would like your opinion on dry sumps vs wet sumps.
Which do you think is better and why.
Thanks for your help.
Michael.

[lowside67]

I sent you a message on Facebook as we are both in Vancouver, but in my opinion, there is not one that is definitively better, but rather pros and cons to each.

The dry sump can potentially make more power (less of an advantage with more modern bike motor designs than historically, but probably some), the motor can be lower in the car, you have a larger volume of oil - all good things.

However, the wet sump is lighter, simpler, cheaper, fewer components to package, and generally a less involved overall package.

I had a Rilltech wet sump pan on my Hayabusa and was never that satisfied with the oil pressure it delivered, it was a constant game of hyper vigilance on oil level and monitoring pressure. If that was my only wet sump experience, I think I would be quite critical of them.

However, my BMW S1000RR has a wet sump pan and delivers strong oil pressure under all circumstances despite my "P1" car likely making more grip than an F1000 during braking where most wet sump pans struggle. The pan is 2" tall, compared to maybe 1.25" for a dry sump pan (guessing), so there is a trade off there, but the package is light, compact, and simple which are all good things for me. I would have no appetite to switch to a dry sump on my current 1000cc motor.

Hopefully some of those ramblings help.

-Mark

[jcolley]

I sent you a message on Facebook as we are both in Vancouver, but in my opinion, there is not one that is definitively better, but rather pros and cons to each.

The dry sump can potentially make more power (less of an advantage with more modern bike motor designs than historically, but probably some), the motor can be lower in the car, you have a larger volume of oil - all good things.

However, the wet sump is lighter, simpler, cheaper, fewer components to package, and generally a less involved overall package.

I had a Rilltech wet sump pan on my Hayabusa and was never that satisfied with the oil pressure it delivered, it was a constant game of hyper vigilance on oil level and monitoring pressure. If that was my only wet sump experience, I think I would be quite critical of them.

However, my BMW S1000RR has a wet sump pan and delivers strong oil pressure under all circumstances despite my "P1" car likely making more grip than an F1000 during braking where most wet sump pans struggle. The pan is 2" tall, compared to maybe 1.25" for a dry sump pan (guessing), so there is a trade off there, but the package is light, compact, and simple which are all good things for me. I would have no appetite to switch to a dry sump on my current 1000cc motor.

Hopefully some of those ramblings help.

-Mark

I got all excited seeing a Bimmer wet sump mentioned and was going to ask where, then scrolled down and saw your name, lol. Hey Mark.

[S Lathrop]

I don't think you can design a wet sump system that will assure good oil pressure under the most demanding situations. Corner 5 at Elkhart Lake were you have a very hard braking zone which is on a down hill slope followed immediately by a hard left hand turn. And to add to the challenge the exit of turn 5 is a hard up hill acceleration.

In the Citation F1000 chassis, I used the oil pan as a structural member in the chassis and as part of the engine mounting system. Unlike automotive engines, you can not have chassis stresses transmitted to the through the block of a bike engine.

Bike engines were never designed to withstand the lateral acceleration that can easily be generated in a good F1000 chassis. So that needs to be considered when installing the engine in a F1000 chassis.

[Michael Lensen]

Thank you Mark and Steve for your info.