Why are you not running in the F1600 Pro Series?

[car7316]

Honest question; Why?

I really can't understand, if you are anywhere east of the Mississippi, why you wouldn't run these race weekends instead of or (like in my case) in combination with SCCA Major weekends. We should have 35 cars a race really with everyone I know that is out there and has a car that runs throughout the season. Cost vs SCCA Majors is a SMALL factor, It realistically cost me an extra $500 or so to run one of these weekends over an SCCA weekend. I guess if the schedule doesn't work that makes sense, and it sucks that the series isn't going to Road America or VIR this season.

Bang for your buck, not even a question. most weekends its 3 full hours of track time, vs. 2 hours. 3 races vs. 2. Very strong fields vs. relatively small and not so strong fields (except the sprints and runoffs of course). No F500's or V's on track with us. Far less BS to put up with and a much more professionally run series. AND if you do well you can win back tires and entry fees. It's a no brainer to me, so I don't get it.

If its the risk of contact, well maybe, but I feel much more comfortable racing around some of these very fast guys up front than I do passing most back markers at an SCCA event, or trying to work my way around F500 cars on track with us (I'm sure those guys feel the same about us, these classes should not be running together).

Please enlighten me. And if you can't, then get your car prepped and come to Mid Ohio!

Bob Perona

[bassracer]

+$500 in up front commitment is still a big deal. Not arguing the value,quality, environment. I have huge respect for the series, organizers and competitors.

I would like to join someday. Hopefully will be able to entertain that in the next two years.

[reidhazelton]

When I was running FF I didn't because of the logistics. Everyone agrees it's a better value, better racing, and a better environment. For some, it's just not obtainable.

Consider the average Joe (if they even exist in racing anymore). The events are Fri/Sat/Sun with I think a Thursday test day. If I am towing 10+ hours, I am going to do a test day. If you have a co-driver, you can do the tow (from the Midwest) in a day - a very long day. That is a day of travel each way, plus Thurs/Fri. Four days off work for each event. Do three events and there goes your two weeks vacation. That is a tough sell when you have a family and they want to go to Disney World but you blew all your vacation already. Also, a some local/regional racers don't have rigs that can do mountains. When I ran, my rig would never have made it over the Appalachians.

That all adds up for a lot of people. Employers are expecting more hours at work, and that doesn't leave much time for fun outside activities either.

[problemchild]

21 entries for an early long distance event at a mediocre race track is pretty awesome.
Hoping to see 30+ at some events.

Great to see "masters" drivers (with no crew) on the podium too.

FYI, most events are 3 days and some have extra test sessions on Friday. With 3-day events at Autobahn, Mid-Ohio, and 2 at PIRC, six day weekends should not be required for many mid-west racers.

[bassracer]

Sorry double post

[Jonathan Lee]

Rice Race and Team Pelfrey set a pretty high bar. Other Privateers like Bob and Joe, also have a great program, and racing against them will bolster your driving & engineering skills.

[Sean Gallagher]

I'd like to, but sold my car 29 years due to..
EntryFee Price Creep..
Engine Rebuild Price Creep,.
Change of Spec Tire..
Closing / Reconfig. of a Couple of Most Excellent NE Tracks..Bridgehampton & Bryar.
Back when we had 20+ FF/CF at a Double EMRA Race Weekend it was a good deal @ $700.00 all expenses for 2 days, 4 practice sessions, and 2 15 - 20 lap races based on the track.
The only Bum Deal was driving home Sunday night from Bridgehampton in the Summer. I left at 4:30:am Monday morning to avoid most of the traffic..
It's not worth speeding $XXXX.XX per CF Race when I could go back Co-Driving on Special Stage Rallys for $xxx.xx per weekend
and win the same $20.00 trophy.

[schiconst]

I ran my first Pro race this weekend. The guys running the show did a great job. I had fun and a lot of seat time. Fierce competition though! CMP wasn't too far from Daytona so I'll probably do that one again. Too bad there aren't more FRP races closer to here. Thanks again for the experience!! John Schimenti FF69

[andyllc]

I love the FRP series and hate to see declining numbers in any of their categories.
If money and TIME were no object I would love to run all of the FRP events. However, I can't take enough time away from my business to run the whole series. For me, I want to win races and a championship. I love to compete. It is a significantly easier path (time and money) for me to run enough races to qualify for the Runoffs and compete there. In the Southeast there are enough quality competitors and often kids that running at the sharp end is not much different than the sharp end in FRP.
For me, if I could only do 4 weekends and the whole series is 6 or 7 then I will either go broke trying to make it to all events and my family suffer (already been down that path, don't want to do it again) or I am left with a bad taste because of the what could have been feelings.
Also, I would be much more likely to jump into an FRP event if there was some excitement about the event. I live on the other side of Columbia and have no desire to race at CMP. I would rather tow a long distance to be a part of a bigger event (ie support race at a true pro level event). I understand that there are significant costs to the series and therefore competitors to be at a big event but I would much rather do that.
The 1600 series has a bit of a identity crisis. It has great racing no doubt. However is it a series for kids? Is it a series for people that go to work on Monday? I believe FF is the best class to start in out of karts but does today's kid (or their parents) feel the same? F4 is where most of that attention goes and now that Andersen has his own F4 series as part of the ladder then I think it is really hard to draw in the kids. Budget is certainly the key draw but being on at least one high profile weekend a year can make that a more viable sell to those people.
What happens if you cater to the people that have to work on Mondays? Look at the F2000. I am dying to be able to afford a 2 liter car but they are almost all garage queens. 6 cars at CMP. The interesting part is look at the FC entry list for VIR one week later (this weekend). Very nice turnout for FC in preparation for the Runoffs I am sure.
If your clientele is the grown adult that pays for their own racing then it is too expensive and too time consuming (bigger emphasis on time). If your clientele is the up and coming kid future pro racer then there is no visibility. Pick one and excel at it instead of trying to appease everyone.

[problemchild]

Here is video from race 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHjVOGiG6fA
Thomas was on a mission. Laps 6 and 7 (8,9 on the video) were epic. For those that think the top teams outspend the smaller teams with engines and testing, you will see that he was not out-powering anybody. It was his first time in the car in 6 months. It was about a great handling car, controlled aggression, and talent.

I described the track as mediocre and others bitched about it. but it certainly served the purpose for a late March venue. The weather was perfect. The drive distance was an extra half to full day for most. I would conclude that the finishing order in each race was representative of the pace of those still running. While considered "impossible to pass" at by many, there seemed to be lots of good racing. That is what happens when you have 20 strong cars and drivers.

While I only speak for my team, I know the other bigger teams agree, in that we welcome the club racers. We expect you to be able to stay on the lead lap on a long track in a 25 minute race, but the full spectrum of racers is what gives the Series its charm. It is certainly common to see the bigger teams sharing, info, expertise, and even parts with the smaller teams.

I expect that a club racer will go 1-2 seconds per lap faster than they would at a typical club event, just because of the quantity and quality of track time. I also expect that just one outing will make it tough to go back to SCCA events. Do you want to have fun competitive racing, or win a plastic trophy for beating 3 other guys?

[chrisH]

I described the track as mediocre and others bitched about it. but it certainly served the purpose for a late March venue. The weather was perfect. The drive distance was an extra half to full day for most. I would conclude that the finishing order in each race was representative of the pace of those still running. While considered "impossible to pass" at by many, there seemed to be lots of good racing. That is what happens when you have 20 strong cars and drivers.

Greg, was passing the biggest complaint for most? I watched Thomas's video, and while he certainly had pace, it seemed like there was plenty of passing and the tracked looked to be fast. Curious as to what other complaints were made.

For us, it's not a question of FRP vs SCCA Club, but a matter of time. Time seems to be the common theme with drivers that are 25+. We love to make the Mid Ohio and Pitt Race weekends every year and we're lucky they're close to home, but it's increasingly difficult with life getting busier and busier. I don't think we've run an SCCA club race since 2018 because of the bang for the buck value of running with FRP; and we probably won't do so unless it's at Pitt Race or making a Runoffs bid in the future.

I think there is plenty of proof with some of the "part-timers" that if you have a competitive car and driver, you can show up with a solid baseline setup and run competitively. Even if you don't, the fields have been large enough lately that there will always be someone to race with throughout the field.

[Agitator]

Here is video from race 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHjVOGiG6fA
Thomas was on a mission. Laps 6 and 7 (8,9 on the video) were epic. For those that think the top teams outspend the smaller teams with engines and testing, you will see that he was not out-powering anybody. It was his first time in the car in 6 months. It was about a great handling car, controlled aggression, and talent.

That was a hell of an impressive drive! And you're right, Greg, a heck of a great handling car. Kudos to you and the driver.

[problemchild]

Greg, was passing the biggest complaint for most?

I am too busy working to talk to many people, but I never actually heard complaints. In general, most complaints I hear are from people who have not done the Series events in many years. People, in any class, that are at the events seem to be having a blast.

I am confused that F2000 people chose the VIR SCCA event that had 63 entries in FA, FC, FE2, FX, P1, and P2. It did not appear that any FC cars were racing with each other. I cannot imagine that anything was fun in that crowd, or that any one learned anything that will help them in the fall. Hopefully, those entries come to Mid-Ohio and they can have a good race together.

[Bob Wright]

Thanks for the comments, Greg.

I am also a bit confused. I’ve received texts from a couple of F2000 drivers at VIR telling me exactly how much fun they’re having and how looking forward they are to running FRP events in the future.

Thomas’s drive was as solid as you can get. What a great handling car at the hands of a great driver.

I just “watched” VIR group three race 1 on race monitor. Four laps all under FCY and checker. I’m sorry, this isn’t racing.

[Jonathan Lee]

The front runner's at FRP very talented, we've seen pro-drivers join us on certain weekends.

Formula Ford, F1600, FF1600 or whatever you may call it is a great class. FRP has orchestrated good events that are for everybody, they have given youngster's the chance to learn from the more experienced guys, and provided a place for everyone to get better.

[CScharnow]

If FRP is for you and everything works out, cool come run with us. If you prefer SCCA, awesome - I'll see you there too.

This is only the second time I have seen something written to this effect, and I couldn't agree more. For some odd reason, every discussion about FRP and SCCA turns into an "Us vs Them" argument. In reality, the focus should be on the cars and bringing people together. Not how much one series sucks and the other series is God's answer to racing.

Look at Sports 2000. Each one of their big events is with a different sanctioning body. They run with HSR, SVRA, VSCDA, it doesn't matter. All they care about is a getting as many people as possible together for a few marquee events. And there's over 50 of them registered for The Mitty next weekend at Road Atlanta, so it's working.

I'm guilty of it too, but it's past time we turn the focus back to the people and bringing everyone together. Stop the pissing matches, there is no panacea. Just a couple awesome classes of cars and people who want to race wherever they damn well please without a bunch of other people telling them they're wrong.

[problemchild]

Every discussion about FRP and SCCA turns into an "Us vs Them" argument.

The reality is that with FC it is "Us vs Them". There are 10 F2000 cars entered at Mid-Ohio next week. Most of them are there to have fun racing in a single class event, not for any political gain. Those drivers desperately want those FC drivers on the Eastern half of the US to join their party. When you say "Lets all work together" but never come to FRP events, then you are being no different than someone who says "SCCA multi-class racing sucks and I am not wasting my resources to support it". By SCCA keeping the USF cars out of FC, they are fueling the "Us vs Them" situation, which again, is part of their "divide and conquer" agenda to kill the class. I like to go back and forth between FRP and SCCA, but there are so few quality SCCA events to choose from, it is really tough.

[CScharnow]

If it is that way, it's because that agenda keeps getting pushed. I don't care where people race, as long as more of us show up we are all winners. Most of us want to see the class succeed everywhere.

We can't control what other people do, only how we respond. I agree there have been decisions made which have done harm, but you and I can't control that. What we can control is how we respond and try to help build moving forward.

Enough with the constant complaining. It's overdone. Contrary to popular belief, there are people trying to grow the class in spite of those headwinds. Anywhere and everywhere.

PS- I'd love to join everyone at Mid-Ohio, but am having engine work done so won't make it. But if you want to offer up your car, I'd be happy to help shake the cobwebs off it (I mean, it won't go fast, but it will run).

[Bob Wright]

A little birdie told me Pelfrey has a car in the trailer you can rent

[problemchild]

Most of us want to see the class succeed everywhere.

That is what everyone says out loud. Over the last decade, the entire FC/F2000 class has segregated into about a dozen us's and thems. In these parts, we have 4 groups (East Coast/Great Lakes SCCA FC racers, FRP F2000 Racers, GLC FC racers, and the USF FX racers). Each has their own agenda, and there is minimal crossover between them, although the USF guys would be thrilled to be welcomed everywhere.

I don't know what the answer is, but we need more than pep talks and guilt trips. I mean that only as constructive commentary.

FWIW, I don't fit into any group. I am booked for all FRP events with my F1600 business (which services both SCCA and FRP events) and have no capacity for more cars. My FC car is available for the bigger SCCA events but nobody has shown up with funding and the desire to drive it (in the last 3 years.)

[CScharnow]

I don't know what the answer is, but we need more than pep talks and guilt trips. I mean that only as constructive commentary.

I agree. And we need less complaining and more people working to figure out the things we do have control over to improve the situation.

I don't know what the answer is either, but I don't think anyone can accuse me of not trying anyway.

[problemchild]

Back to Bob's original post above, with 10 days to go, there are 21 F1600 entries and 10 F2000 entries for M-O. Entries from as far away as Quebec, TX, AZ, and CO. This event may be the biggest and best race for either class this year. There are lots more cars and drivers within a days drive (or even a few hours) that could be part of it. Be a selfish race car driver, and get-r-done, for no other reason than you want to have fun racing (and watching other racing)..

If you cannot make Mid-Ohio, then the June 3-5 event at PIRC (Pittsburgh) should have similar status.

[problemchild]

If you cannot make Mid-Ohio, then the June 3-5 event at PIRC (Pittsburgh) should have similar status.

Similar car counts for PIRC as Mid-Ohio 5 weeks ago including double digits for F2000. Be there!

[Lotus7]

Similar car counts for PIRC as Mid-Ohio 5 weeks ago including double digits for F2000. Be there!

and for what its worth, a perfect weather forecast at this point; see ya there