i don't get it

[stvsxm]

so i advertise that i am looking for some shocks. i get several responses. they are all scams. people with an e mail address and some photos of some shocks they got from somewhere and want to get paid up front with money orders or wire transfers etc. i say...
" look... send me me a pay pal invoice with the details and you get the money straight away... done deal" and they have every excuse in the world.. some say " what's paypal ? " i ask for references... they say " ive been in the racing biz for 30 years !!!" i say... " so have i... who do you know that i know ? " and then there are more excuses. they say... " i don't want to pay the pay pal fees " ... i say " no prob... i'll pay them... cost you nothing..." then they get insulted and thats that. i simply don't understand why people you don't know, have never met , that nobody ever heard of simply expect you to write a check and hope that everything will be warm and fuzzy out the other end. he doesn't know me ? fine... here;s a list of 50 people that i have spent 100's of thousands of dollars with since 1970...call them and ask them about me. now... what about you ?" no answer

how does that make any sense at all if the guy is legit ?

[TimH]

how does that make any sense at all if the guy is legit ?

He's not. He also doesn't need to bat a thousand to make a buck off the occasional sucker.

[E1pix]

Sad state of affairs when we get robbed for trusting others, or having said trust means we’re fools.

Thanks Again, Tech.


Edit: I was speaking generally here in thinking the thread was about actual scammers.

Turns out it’s about one of our own members and vendors, and is one helluva crappy thread to demean one’s business if the “scam” actually isn’t one at all... but rather a misunderstanding.

Depressing.

[Lotus7]

(deleted my generic comments once this thread went sideways)

[Pi_guy]

He's not. He also doesn't need to bat a thousand to make a buck off the occasional sucker.

Thanks for your vote of support......

[stvsxm]

Every time someone tries to scam me, or I read about some new ploy, I ask myself "who the heck would fall for this nonsense?", yet enough must do that the scammers persist ...

doesn't speak well for the so-called 'common' sense people are reputed to have

in this case my favorite was the guy that sent me pics that he stole off someone elses web site and offered to make me brand new 8212's to whatever spec i wanted for 100 each.... just send him 50 % down and he would have them for me in a few days. i said
" gee how do you know what i need for lengths and valving ? " and he said " oh... ill just make them the std size... " he wanted a postal money order... his ip address was spain

[10rmotor]

I read about people getting scammed in motorcycle pages on FB all the time. Every day I see a post that goes "don't buy from this guy he took my money and just blocked me" or something along those lines. They never want to use paypal and always have an excuse as to why their paypal account is "not working at this time".

But people keep getting scammed so there will continue to be scammers.

[Pi_guy]

I read about people getting scammed in motorcycle pages on FB all the time. Every day I see a post that goes "don't buy from this guy he took my money and just blocked me" or something along those lines. They never want to use paypal and always have an excuse as to why their paypal account is "not working at this time".

But people keep getting scammed so there will continue to be scammers.

Any one here on Apex send me a check and not received what we had agreed on?

[stvsxm]

Any one here on Apex send me a check and not received what we had agreed on?

listen mike.... if you had a bunch of people on here to use as references, thats all you had to say.... i would contact them... they would say " yup he can be trusted " and thats all it would have taken. for reasons only you know you made yourself sound like a scammer. i asked you simply and directly... " give me a name of someone we both know" and you refused. how do you figure thats even a rational way to conduct a transaction with a stranger in this day and age ? and in the end... it makes no sense at all.... you want my money and im happy to give it to you... all i asked for was a shred of validation of who i was talking to ... and you refused. you have only yourself to blame.

[Pi_guy]

listen mike.... if you had a bunch of people on here to use as references, thats all you had to say.... i would contact them... they would say " yup he can be trusted " and thats all it would have taken. for reasons only you know you made yourself sound like a scammer. i asked you simply and directly... " give me a name of someone we both know" and you refused. how do you figure thats even a rational way to conduct a transaction with a stranger in this day and age ? and in the end... it makes no sense at all.... you want my money and im happy to give it to you... all i asked for was a shred of validation of who i was talking to ... and you refused. you have only yourself to blame.

I have an email from you asking for my address and telling me you would send me a check.

Three days later you tell me I have to take paypal or I am a scammer.
Then you want references, I told you I would not bother my friends with your crap.

[Pi_guy]

I have an email from you asking for my address and telling me you would send me a check.

Three days later you tell me I have to take paypal or I am a scammer.
Then you want references, I told you I would not bother my friends with your crap.

Plus I told you right from the start I did not take paypal.
Also my wife has been in the hospital and rehab over the time you were calling me a scammer. So I have lost all respect for you and hell will freeze over before I conduct a transaction with you.

Good chance I will just donate it to a SAE team I seem to attract oddballs when I try to peddle stuff here.

[TimH]

Thanks for your vote of support......

Sorry, Mike, but from the original post I had no clue it was about you. If what he described is accurate, I could see why the OP was dubious despite your significant presence on ApexSpeed (something he never mentioned, BTW). Now I can also see why you chose to have nothing more to do with the deal. It might have been best to leave yourself out of the thread, though...

[Pi_guy]

Sorry, Mike, but from the original post I had no clue it was about you. If what he described is accurate, I could see why the OP was dubious despite your significant presence on ApexSpeed (something he never mentioned, BTW). Now I can also see why you chose to have nothing more to do with the deal. It might have been best to leave yourself out of the thread, though...

I hate to be flamed with out a vote. Been getting PM from the OP knew it was coming. I had and have nothing to hide I am always up front.

[stvsxm]

Sorry, Mike, but from the original post I had no clue it was about you. If what he described is accurate, I could see why the OP was dubious despite your significant presence on ApexSpeed (something he never mentioned, BTW). Now I can also see why you chose to have nothing more to do with the deal. It might have been best to leave yourself out of the thread, though...

thats exactly the point. i didn't know it was him either. i got a blind e mail from him no reference to the site at all. the rest is as i said. he was and remains a complete stranger that wouldn't provide a shred of validation of any sort. i only learned it was him today when i saw ANOTHER ad ... from him this time ...offering the same shocks. if he had id'd him self as associated here then maybe things would have been different. as for flaming him... i never mentioned him at all. just the various scam responses i had received of which one appeared to be him. let me ask YOU... would you just write a check and send it off to some one you don't know, someone who claims to be in the biz but no one ELSE knows or ever heard of ? if so i would simply ask how much florida swamp land youve bought in your lifetime... the interesting thing as it turns out is that i had actually been in touch with him about advice on a pi system a couple months ago. all he had to say was ... " i'm the guy t\you were talking to last month.." but no... he played the scammer to the hilt ... STILL makes no sense to me....

[John Nesbitt]

I know nothing about this abortive transaction, so cannot comment on it.

I do know that I once shipped some items to Mike, and he promptly mailed me payment. He was perfectly straight with me. Not everyone uses Paypal.

[Pi_guy]

Sorry, Mike, but from the original post I had no clue it was about you. If what he described is accurate, I could see why the OP was dubious despite your significant presence on ApexSpeed (something he never mentioned, BTW). Now I can also see why you chose to have nothing more to do with the deal. It might have been best to leave yourself out of the thread, though...

The joke is I can't remember how many times I talked to SJ in the 80's or how many times I teched his car. I was chief of tech for NY in the 80's for about 7 years. If I was not running a car I worked tech. think at one point Ted and Peter were building his motors. The same address that I sent him was used back then as the chief of tech address.

I am sure I can get some people to vouch for me but almost rather you didn't.

Texted some of my references and I get back why would you want to deal with that ***********

[stonebridge20]

Lol !

[E1pix]

If I had more clients like this I’d have less clients like this.

[Pi_guy]

thats exactly the point. i didn't know it was him either. i got a blind e mail from him no reference to the site at all. the rest is as i said. he was and remains a complete stranger that wouldn't provide a shred of validation of any sort. i only learned it was him today when i saw ANOTHER ad ... from him this time ...offering the same shocks. if he had id'd him self as associated here then maybe things would have been different. as for flaming him... i never mentioned him at all. just the various scam responses i had received of which one appeared to be him. let me ask YOU... would you just write a check and send it off to some one you don't know, someone who claims to be in the biz but no one ELSE knows or ever heard of ? if so i would simply ask how much florida swamp land youve bought in your lifetime... the interesting thing as it turns out is that i had actually been in touch with him about advice on a pi system a couple months ago. all he had to say was ... " i'm the guy t\you were talking to last month.." but no... he played the scammer to the hilt ... STILL makes no sense to me....

on
01.10.22, 10:42 AM

You sent me this text, we have had other discussions off line such as your track record at the Bridge:

pi stuff

hi, i recently got an old pi 2 system.... haven't fired it up yet to se where i am. are you available for e mail consultation at some point ?

steven @gmail.com

Keep up the shoveling

[stvsxm]

I know nothing about this abortive transaction, so cannot comment on it.

I do know that I once shipped some items to Mike, and he promptly mailed me payment. He was perfectly straight with me. Not everyone uses Paypal.

see how easy that was ? all he has to say is " email john nesbitt and ask him who i am " ... he would have my money, i would have the shocks . and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[stvsxm]

on
01.10.22, 10:42 AM

You sent me this text, we have had other discussions off line such as your track record at the Bridge:

pi stuff

hi, i recently got an old pi 2 system.... haven't fired it up yet to se where i am. are you available for e mail consultation at some point ?

steven @gmail.com

Keep up the shoveling

thats exactly right. i sent you that and we had a conversation and you were very helpful. so....after you sent the blind email with the shock offer and i asked you who you were, why didn't you just say " im the pi guy you were talking to " ? as for the 80's ... you might want to have a look at a calendar . the 80's were 40 years ago and there are 10,000 people i've had contact with since then... sorry the name " mike" didn't just make your face pop up... you can say what you want but in the end , all you had to do was answer a simple question and this would have been a done deal but you hid like some nigerian scammer and evaded every attempt to validate that you were a real person . thats on you. nobody else.

[stvsxm]

If I had more clients like this I’d have less clients like this.

two questions for you.... in your response to the original post where you knew EXACTLY what i knew about the transaction, what was your response ? you thought it was a scam. now that you know it was this individual which i didn't know until yesterday and who wouldn't id himself at the time, your opinion is different ? and second.... straight question and give me an honest answer... would you just mail a check to someone you didn't know when that person won't id himself or provide any validation who he is ... AND when you call some vendors that you know and run his company name by them their response is " never heard of him ". and you think i was being unreasonable ?

[Pi_guy]

Your story keeps changing.

You know I did nothing wrong. I was up front right from the start.
You on the other hand are spinning tales trying to make me look like a criminal. Really don't think you have made much progress except in your mind.

We had prior conversations over the years. I responded to your requests.

You have hassled me for the shocks more than I want the money.

So very close to putting the shocks in the fire pit and taking a video and posting it for you.

I don't think this fake accusation of criminality is going to matter to me very much outside of me telling my friends what a POS you are.
But I think more Apexers will be critical of dealing with you.

[John Nesbitt]

see how easy that was ? all he has to say is " email john nesbitt and ask him who i am " ... he would have my money, i would have the shocks . and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You miss my point. If Mike were some rando on the interwebz or Fleabay/CL/FB Marketplace, I would demand some strong assurances before doing business. However, Mike is a longtime Apex'er (longer that you, in fact), and, in this community, reputation matters. So I had some strong confidence that I could ship to him against a promise of payment.

That said, you are certainly within your rights to do business on your terms. You should just not be surprised or aggrieved if your counterparty is not willing to meet your terms.

[E1pix]

Steve, I didn’t “think you were scammed,” I just believed what you said.

Being one who gives a damn about others, I simply commiserated if indeed you had been. But you haven’t.

And Yes, I trust people. And will continue to. The alternative is ugly.

[TimH]

Doug? Are we through here?

[R. Pare]

Any one here on Apex send me a check and not received what we had agreed on?

Yea - the 2 million $$ I sent you for that Ferrari Dino that you advertised in Esquire Magazine.....

[Pi_guy]

Yea - the 2 million $$ I sent you for that Ferrari Dino that you advertised in Esquire Magazine.....

Still waiting for the check to clear.

One of my FF rental guys in the 80's was renting the car while awaiting sentencing for shooting a teen who scratched his Ferrari down in Little Italy. He drove with full abandonment....

[stvsxm]

You miss my point. If Mike were some rando on the interwebz or Fleabay/CL/FB Marketplace, I would demand some strong assurances before doing business. However, Mike is a longtime Apex'er (longer that you, in fact), and, in this community, reputation matters. So I had some strong confidence that I could ship to him against a promise of payment.

That said, you are certainly within your rights to do business on your terms. You should just not be surprised or aggrieved if your counterparty is not willing to meet your terms.

again.... small words short sentences..... he NEVER identified himself as the individual from HERE. thats the point. he sent a blind email from " mike" ... thats it if he has said... " im the guy that was taking to you a month ago or ANYTHING like that we wouldn't be having this discussion. i asked him 50 times who he was and got bullsht answers. he never said pi guy or apex or anything... its not that hard to understand.

[stvsxm]

Steve, I didn’t “think you were scammed,” I just believed what you said.

Being one who gives a damn about others, I simply commiserated if indeed you had been. But you haven’t.

And Yes, I trust people. And will continue to. The alternative is ugly.

exactly. you believed what i said and came to the same conclusion i did because what i described is exactly what happened.... geeze... i wanted the shocks. was happy to pay. all he had to do was give me some indication that he was real.... " hi, im the pi guy on apex" or e mail such and such... he knows me well.." .. ANYTHING at all... but apparently thats too much to ask.

[stvsxm]

Your story keeps changing.

You know I did nothing wrong. I was up front right from the start.
You on the other hand are spinning tales trying to make me look like a criminal. Really don't think you have made much progress except in your mind.

We had prior conversations over the years. I responded to your requests.

You have hassled me for the shocks more than I want the money.

So very close to putting the shocks in the fire pit and taking a video and posting it for you.

I don't think this fake accusation of criminality is going to matter to me very much outside of me telling my friends what a POS you are.
But I think more Apexers will be critical of dealing with you.

you must be thinking of someone else. the only conversation i ever had with you in my life was by email 2 months ago about the pi systems. you were helpful and i said so. if you have me confused with someone in your past life , i can't help you with that. if you had identified yourself as pi guy during this whole deal instead of just "mike" we wouldn't be here.... and i remind you again.... i never said anything about you in the original post. you brought it up. the first i knew it was you was when i saw your post 2 days ago when you tried to sell the same shocks to someone else... you need to get a grip on reality. and next time if you want to sell something to someone try the usual thing like identifying yourself beyond your first name .... works better.

[stvsxm]

Doug? Are we through here?

yes.
apparently the prevailing standard is " if some emails you with a first name only and you have no idea who it is, feel free to send them a check. everything will be just fine "

good luck with that

[dc]

I'm going to leave this thread closed, as it just became bickering, and this is the first I've seen it today.


So, we always recommend that people contact each other for sales through the forum PM system, because you can be sure that no one outside of ApexSpeed is trying to sell you something that doesn't exist—or at least we do our best to keep the scammers out. If someone contacts you through PMs, by looking at their profile, you should know who they are, how long they have been here, where they live, and at least have a general idea of their rep.

For years we have also told people to NOT include their phone numbers or email addresses in WANTED or FOR SALE posts to protect against outside scammers.

This is a perfect reason to avoid doing deals—or at least initial contact—off of ApexSpeed. Seems to me like we had a complete breakdown of communication here on both sides. I completely understand the distrust of a seller of items off of the forums without full names or backgrounds. Assuming someone should know who you are, or assuming that someone is immediately trying to pull a fast one got everyone nowhere here.

Good lessons to be learned by everyone. I hope this helps others trying to buy and sell here on ApexSpeed.