Dash roll hoop sizing

[mdwracer]

To my knowledge, formula cars through 1977 were not required to have a dash hoop matching the main roll bar size and wall thickness. Around 1977, I think SCCA required all cars to have matching roll bar/dash hoops in size/thickness. A lot of pre-1976 cars were updated as they were still current competitive race cars and I think may have been forced to have it to pass tech but not sure?

Did you have to update your car if you had a 1976 or older car OR was the update just for new cars getting SCCA log books from 1977 onward?
Did this rule stay the same all the way up through modern time in regard to SCCA? Can someone give a historical timeline of this change from 1977 through modern day?
All of this applies to North America,not just SCCA... so what were Canadian rules, Midwest Council rules, etc.

Thank You
Mike Winebrenner

[S Lathrop]

Cars build through the 1970's did not have to meet the roll care requirements

The roll cage requirements were to become mandatory for all cars after 1984. Those rules were discussed in the mid 1970's. I think that I may have built the first car that met the 1984 rules in 1976. It was the Z14 air cooled FSV. Once those rules were published, most and maybe all new cars were built to the new rules even though there were many years before they were mandatory for all cars.

I may be off on the exact years of the roll cage rules. I was involved in the rule making process at the time.

I do not remember that there ever was a time when the rules allowed the dash hoop part of the roll cage to be built with tubing other than the size required for the main hoop.

[pooch776]

I believe roll cages (front roll bars in formula cars) were required in all cars "newly registered" with the SCCA after 1/1/79. They were mandatory for all cars "constructed" after 1/1/84. I find that a bit confusing but I often find the GCR raises as many questions as it answers.

Try to find a copy of the 79 GCR or you may want try the 2012 SCCA Vintage and Historic rules appendix Z (page 13) for details you are looking for: UpdatedVintageGCRRuleBook.pdf

Cheers, Joe

[FVRacer21]

I believe roll cages (front roll bars in formula cars) were required in all cars "newly registered" with the SCCA after 1/1/79. They were mandatory for all cars "constructed" after 1/1/84. I find that a bit confusing but I often find the GCR raises as many questions as it answers.

Try to find a copy of the 79 GCR or you may want try the 2012 SCCA Vintage and Historic rules appendix Z (page 13) for details you are looking for: UpdatedVintageGCRRuleBook.pdf

Cheers, Joe

i checked my copy of a 1977 and 1979 and confirm the above. I also looked and it appears that the pre1979 exemption was not removed until 1996! (Still 25 years ago!)

I assume this was because in the 90’s, the SCCA became very insurance oriented….

As an aside - some cars built before the 1979 rule were made with undersized front tubing. I believed some early Crossle 32s had to be updated.

my suggestion is if you are rebuilding a car for any current competition, you should update the front and rear roll hoop as some of the early rear roll hoops where just to the height of the driver helmet. Depending on class, most need to be 2” but some classes may need to be 4”.

ChrisZ

[mdwracer]

If I understand this correctly, a car constructed/raced pre 1979 was allowed to race in SCCA without any upgraded front hoop from 1979 to 1996 and after 1996 it must be updated having the front hoop match the main hoop in size and wall thickness.
Also, and car newly constructed from 1984 onward had to meet the new requirement from new.
Does all this sound correct?

[pooch776]

Yes but...I am not sure all cars must be updated with a front roll bar after 1996 to race with the SCCA. The Florida region lets pre 1979 formula fords race in the "SCCA Vintage" group without a front roll bar. Not sure if they would require one if you were to race in the Formula F group. The question is, why would you want to race a vintage FF in Formula F? None of the vintage clubs (that I know of) require pre 1979 formula fords to have a front roll bar but you can always add one if you want to.

[mdwracer]

My reason for asking this information was to try and answer why so many Formula Ford’s in the late seventies had no front hoop update. My original thought was most of these cars had to be parked (not raced) but were still pretty current and competitive… but now I see SCCA gave them a lot more years of compliance, hence these cars just raced out their normal life.

[S Lathrop]

For people who want to race a car without a front roll hoop, they should know about a very popular and up and coming driver who lost his life in a crash where his car went between the 2 guard rails at Mid Ohio. That driver was a friend and he raced a Zink Z10 before the car he lost his life in.

As a result of that wreck, I designed and built the Zink Z14 and that car was the first car to race in SCCA that met the roll cage requirements. That was 1974/75 when that car hit the track.

[Ed Womer]

I do remember that in the mid to late 90's SCCA changed the roll hoop requirements for small formula cars (weight wise) and the minimum tube size went from 1 1/4" to 1 3/8" OD. I had made my early FV chassis according to the current rule and used the 1 1/4" OD tubing and was not happy about the chance since it would require updating.

Since I was involved in the Pro VEE wreck at Indy and had some frame damage I decided to build another chassis and moved to 1 1/2" OD tubing which would allow me to do other types of car if I chose to. Because of that I still actually have my original chassis #1 and it is hanging on the wall since unless I change the front and rear hoops to minimum of 1 3/8" OD it is unusable.

After that little history of the Womer FV chassis construction, my opinion is that if getting any work done on an older chassis I think including a front hoop of same size OD and wall thickness should be done. The issue usually becomes bending the tube to fit and dies are expensive especially if doing a one off project. So hopefully you can profile the front hoop to fit with what die you have and that has it's limitations due to the distance needed between bends which is a feature of your bender that you can't escape from.

I have been lucky so far since I have the minimum radius die allowed by the rules and can make the new hoop fit as long as I have 4+ " between the bends.

Ed Womer

[problemchild]

If you do put a front hoop on a car, it is a lot easier to find a source to make your bend in 1 1/2". I can find several shops within minutes of my house, that can make me a bend in 1.5", but need to send away to specialty shops for 1 3/8", adding significant cost and time delay. I realize your proximity to Indy is much different to mine, but may be a factor.

[M.Sauce]

I would stay with the 1 3/8 if you can, just to the roll hoops consistent.Most stock car stuff and dirt cars use 1 1/2 tubing for roll hoops some even larger that's why it easier to find 1 1/2 mandrels than a 1 3/8.It is way over kill and adds more weight as well.Good material and properly bent 1 3/8 roll hoop is plenty effective for a FF or FC in my opinion. I have both mandrels for my bender.