Why Are Formula Cars Losing Popularity?

[FE2Racer9]

For younger people - the only thing I'd add is the buddy-factor.

To jump into OW, you'll likely leave your buddies behind.
Maybe they can crew for you, but when running Lemons they are 'equals'.

This is an absolute factor. I'm 22 years old, running in FE2 (hence the name). All of my friends think the whole racing thing is cool, but simply standing on the sidelines and watching isn't as interesting to them. I think we've all seen those IndyCar and F1 races that are snoozefests, now imagine a local club race where all the drivers are 10+ seconds apart.

I'll add my two cents as a "young" person. My friends would rather hop into a cheap car that they can't damage too badly and run around on a track during a track day. They don't want to go through the racing schools and buy the full equipment. I always tell my friends how cheap it is to run my FE2 for a 3 day weekend, even with a Prep Shop, but when I tell them they have to first go through the school and then get the gear, it's an instant turn off. I did the 4 Day Grand Prix Road Racing program at Bondurant, and the entire trip (food, transportation, the actual school, hotel, etc.) was over $8000. That's a huge no from my friends.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I love racing and will drive almost anything. I've almost got one of my 20 year old friends convinced to hop in an SRF. He's also looking into buying a F500. I took him to the Super Tour event at Watkins Glen in June, and he loved it. But my 19 year old brother slept in a chair at the Jack Daniel's club almost the whole day, every day.

[OneWayOut]

They don't want to go through the racing schools and buy the full equipment. I always tell my friends how cheap it is to run my FE2 for a 3 day weekend, even with a Prep Shop, but when I tell them they have to first go through the school and then get the gear, it's an instant turn off. I did the 4 Day Grand Prix Road Racing program at Bondurant, and the entire trip (food, transportation, the actual school, hotel, etc.) was over $8000. That's a huge no from my friends.

That's $8k for just your Novice license. If you want a Full license, it's another 3 full regional weekends. And if you want to keep that license, it's a full regional weekend per year.

[zcars]

[

"And I'm hoping to keep the fiancee's SUV's mileage down a bit. It's worth more now than it was at purchase but it can tow up to 4k (I made sure we got the trailer hitch). I was having trouble calculating trailer weight plus car, so it's really really good to know I can get a light aluminum trailer and the FF can't be too much more on top of that.
Storage is the only other problem"


Hey Bananaphone,
How 'bout cutting a deal with your fiancee ? - Tell her everytime you use her SUV to tow with you will make the car payment for her that month - so perhaps 5 to 6 times per year. Tell her she can go to Short Hills mall and get a pair of new shoes or whatever, what girl in her early 30s is going to say no to that ? As for storing the FF, maybe you can ask your parents or hers if you can keep it in their garage in exchange for you taking care of their lawn ? (Which is really just an exuse for you to go there and tinker with your car afterwards ! ) Sounds like you're on the verge of getting a FF, just need to work out a couple of but legit details. good luck !

[Rick Kirchner]

Hey All,

The biggest issue for me is that I have a car I'm working on restoring in one garage bay, while the other garage bay has my Fiancée's compact SUV. I cannot store a formula ford outside, nor do I have a vehicle I can tow it with.

Just a suggestion - but between work, girlfriend, restoring some street car, and wanting to race, too much time dilution. Ditch the car you are restoring. I had a friend that just would not let go of the 40's olds he intended to restore one day - which made working on his FM a total PITA. You'll need the money for the race car anyway. The world doesn't really need another $40K 70's Camaro (if you get what I mean). Besides - you'll learn more about fabrication and assembly on that FF in the first year than you ever will trying to restore whatever you have.

If you must keep it, stick it in a sea van somewhere.

Ditch whatever you are driving now for a midsize pickup. It will run forever and handle the FF on an open trailer just fine, and unless you have a 60 mile commute, the gas won't be that bad. I used to autocross and ran Supras. Ditched the once-every-three-years-ever-depreciating model for a Chevy pickup I kept for a quarter-million miles just so I could haul stuff for the race car.

[rdracr]

Is a certain amount of mechanical knowledge is required. Not everyone has access or the funding for a prep shop. Nice to have but not totally necessary. Modern cars are just too dependable so that knowledge is being lost. I won't get into SCCA doing everything they can to kill racing,

[reidhazelton]

I always tell my friends how cheap it is to run my FE2 for a 3 day weekend, even with a Prep Shop

Ballpark me. How cheap is "cheap?"

[bananaphone]

Hi Bananaphone, I'm one of those low budget FV drivers that Greg spoke of. I'm older than you (50) but my financial situation probably isn't tremendously better b/c I have 3 kids at or near college age. Here is what my experience has been over the last two years.

I used to autox an FV but sold it in 2009. In 2019 I decided to get into road racing because that's what I've always wanted to do. Never considered a closed wheel car because I love the formula car driving experience - very different than taking a daily on a track day. I was on the fence for a while then went to a DriverZ cup race with VDCA and decided to jump in.

I've kept close track of my spend and over the past two years. Going from nothing in 2019 (other than normal shade-tree mechanic tools) until today has cost $22,775. This includes purchase of a very nice regional FV (Bill Hall's old car), open trailer, tools for garage and track, 2x sets of tires (SCCA and the new DZC/CC Yokohamas), full safety kit, all expenses including travel/ lodging/ events/incidentals. Events were driver's school (SCCA), 4 race weekends (1 SCCA, 2 DZC/VDCA, 1 FRP/CCS/DZC) and two track days. Oh, and one blown engine rebuild and a new fuel cell (ouch!).

I also have a 2x car garage and tow using my wife's SUV while dealing with complaints :-)

Just trying to give a view of affordability at the much lower end of the spectrum from the big spenders. This is by no means cheap within my current financial position but has been doable and I've had a great time! While not many of my friends are interested, I feel like I've joined a whole new community of great people which has been very fulfilling as well.

This is the gold star worthy post right here. Thank you so much. Trying to figure out how much to budget over the car purchase etc.

[bananaphone]

Just a suggestion - but between work, girlfriend, restoring some street car, and wanting to race, too much time dilution. Ditch the car you are restoring. I had a friend that just would not let go of the 40's olds he intended to restore one day - which made working on his FM a total PITA. You'll need the money for the race car anyway. The world doesn't really need another $40K 70's Camaro (if you get what I mean). Besides - you'll learn more about fabrication and assembly on that FF in the first year than you ever will trying to restore whatever you have.

If you must keep it, stick it in a sea van somewhere.

Ditch whatever you are driving now for a midsize pickup. It will run forever and handle the FF on an open trailer just fine, and unless you have a 60 mile commute, the gas won't be that bad. I used to autocross and ran Supras. Ditched the once-every-three-years-ever-depreciating model for a Chevy pickup I kept for a quarter-million miles just so I could haul stuff for the race car.

This is a question I run into fairly frequently.

I've been able to hit 2-3x autocross a year, with a minimum one lemons race (I'll bring the tent and camp at the track).

I currently have one car payment. Discounted through work, but it is a lease and a killer deal. Only bad thing is no towing ability.

Once these market prices on used vehicles chills out I'm going to start looking at getting rid of the company lease.

I know you're 100% right about the street car restoration. I can't bring myself to do it (yet), as it's the same engine for a formula ford. The dream (which I need to get rid of) is that I'd have the formula ford engined car for the street. If anything I'd want it going to a good place.

[TimH]

The dream (which I need to get rid of) is that I'd have the formula ford engined car for the street. If anything I'd want it going to a good place.

You need to get rid of that for sure. The Kent engine is great fun in an 1100 pound race chassis, but a dog in anything street-legal. Even a Lotus needed a better head. Plus the formula car is SOOOO much easier to work on (hint: put it up on a waist-high stand and everything's right there). Plus you'll have a lot more room in the garage bay for all the other goodies.

[Rich_G_SC]

"Trying to figure out how much to budget over the car purchase etc."

Very important consideration! While I could have afforded a regional/vintage FF it would have put me in a bad place for other expenses.

Here are some of my costs:
FV - $7k
Trailer - $1500
Fuel Cell - $1100
Engine Rebuild (partial) - $1200
Tires - SCCA Hoosiers $900, DZC/CCS Yokohamas $750
Safety Gear - $1500

So that's around 14k, the other $9k or so I've spent thus far (2 years) were event expenses and a lot of the random stuff I didn't think about when shopping a car. IMO it's important to keep in mind what you'll be spending outside of the obvious purchase items. Fred Clarke told me that he estimates his all in spend at $500 per session (5 sessions per race weekend).

BTW, I also sold a 68 Mustang to fund/make room for the race car. Racing is way more fun that waxing a car and cruising to cars and coffee!

[TimH]

So that's around 14k, the other $9k or so I've spent thus far (2 years) were event expenses and a lot of the random stuff I didn't think about when shopping a car. IMO it's important to keep in mind what you'll be spending outside of the obvious purchase items. Fred Clarke told me that he estimates his all in spend at $500 per session (5 sessions per race weekend).

BTW, I also sold a 68 Mustang to fund/make room for the race car. Racing is way more fun that waxing a car and cruising to cars and coffee!

Travel is 1/3-1/2 the budget for most folks. Where you choose to sleep makes a big difference.

My 94 3rd Gen RX7 was huge fun on track days, but all that HP and ABS made me think I knew how to drive. I'm learning now.

[provamo]

i know of two younger employed males who have more money wrapped up in racing simulators than i have spent on my first
four formula cars

my own nephews had no interest in my offers to pay for their initiation through professional driving schools

no desire

[Pi_guy]

i know of two younger employed males who have more money wrapped up in racing simulators than i have spent on my first
four formula cars

my own nephews had no interest in my offers to pay for their initiation through professional driving schools

no desire

My son was offered the chance to learn karts with a well known race driver. Who he knows. Didn't care. If he had wanted to go racing I have some experience and the equipment needed was not interested. So now the stuff is slowly being liquidated a little like a Stalin purge.

On the cost of things:

The size of the boat only matters when you get to the fuel dock. 1300$ in 275 gallons gives me 400 miles

[John Nesbitt]

...

The size of the boat only matters when you get to the fuel dock. 1300$ in 275 gallons gives me 400 miles

I have owned (sail) boats and I have owned race cars. They are both extremely effective ways of burning through discretionary income.

[Steve Demeter]

I think John hit it. Racing most any car is an extremely efficient way of burning through discretionary funds. The simple reason that formula cars, IMHO FWIW is that formula cars are more efficient than say IT or other types of cars. And one really needs ot be hard core after formula cars to stick with them.

[DaveW]

I have owned (sail) boats and I have owned race cars. They are both extremely effective ways of burning through discretionary income.

Especially if you hire a team to maintain and bring it to the track for you. It's even expensive if you do almost all of your own prep and tow it to the track yourself with equipment that you've owned for many years. Most potential drivers don't have the knowledge or equipment to DIY, even if they have the interest.

[Jerry Kehoe]

I still believe Formula cars are still the least expensive way to race as long as you are racing a FV or older FF. I learned nearly everything from Carroll Smith's books, Marc Bahner, Steve Jennings and anyone I could listen to. These types of cars are made from readily available tubing, round, square, rectangular that you can learn to fabricate nearly anything from for the most part without having mills, lathes in a garage at home. Welding or brazing is from practicing, sore arms from using hack saws and grinders. Trust me I have mostly built cars including my Can-Am car this way with plenty of compliments along the way. In the pre carbon days frames can be repaired, A arms fabricated, wings made and mounted a lot cheaper than buying production stamped products for your production based car and after all learning all of this is also part of racing. This was very important if you didn't come with trust fund funds or hedge funds exploits. Hell I towed my Can-Am car initially with my company car ( was a bitch getting over the grapevine) The major requirement is passion, if you have it you will find a way!

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I have owned (sail) boats and I have owned race cars. They are both extremely effective ways of burning through discretionary income.

My dad's business partner had boats. I worked for some guys that had leisure ships (80,90,110,145ft) throughout the world.
NO thank you.

My wife and daughter showed horses (jumpers) for 15 years.

I could spend 5x what I do on racing and not come close.

[Adriancnh]

My FC was cheaper than my spec miata to run and a hell of a lot cheaper than my Honda S2000... (Track days). Now moved to an F1000 but I assume run costs will be similar to the FC

[John Nesbitt]

I still believe Formula cars are still the least expensive way to race as long as you are racing a FV or older FF. I learned nearly everything from Carroll Smith's books, Marc Bahner, Steve Jennings and anyone I could listen to. These types of cars are made from readily available tubing, round, square, rectangular that you can learn to fabricate nearly anything from for the most part without having mills, lathes in a garage at home. Welding or brazing is from practicing, sore arms from using hack saws and grinders. Trust me I have mostly built cars including my Can-Am car this way with plenty of compliments along the way. In the pre carbon days frames can be repaired, A arms fabricated, wings made and mounted a lot cheaper than buying production stamped products for your production based car and after all learning all of this is also part of racing. This was very important if you didn't come with trust fund funds or hedge funds exploits. Hell I towed my Can-Am car initially with my company car ( was a bitch getting over the grapevine) The major requirement is passion, if you have it you will find a way!

Jerry


You, and people like Reid Hazelton and Dave Weitzenhof, exemplify the passion and fire at the core of road racing.


Unfortunately, there are no longer enough of you to fill all those grids.


So, we depend on others to fill the grids – people who use prep shops to maintain their cars and support them at events, and people who do arrive-and-drive rentals. People like me.


Almost by definition, this group is more transient. We take up racing, do it for some years, then move on with our lives. People have always done this. Much of the problem is that, today, fewer and fewer people are coming in this door.


There are any number of reasons for this -- lack of discretionary income, competing demands for that income, lack of space/time/interest to maintain a race car, spousal concerns about safety, economic changes that hollow out the middle class -- the list goes on and on.


Quite honestly, I do not see any way to go back to the glory days of the 70s and 80s. Those days are gone. The best that we can likely do now is to consolidate – fewer events with larger entries – to make those events more attractive to racers.

[Rick Kirchner]

Quite honestly, I do not see any way to go back to the glory days of the 70s and 80s. Those days are gone. The best that we can likely do now is to consolidate – fewer events with larger entries – to make those events more attractive to racers.

I don't think that anyone is advocating going back to the "glory days", although you can infer that the popularity of some classes of open wheel in some vintage and regional clubs points to some aspects of the 70s/80s experience work to improve car counts.

It seems to me that the major failing of the club is in understanding in as much detail as possible, the changes in the marketplace. It recognizes those changes in the way it has morphed toward spec cars of all types. It doesn't understand the cause and effect of it's own actions in support of, or lack of support, of any particular class. It just don't collect the data- from its own members or competing organizations. It's been flying in the dark for a very long time.

So thirty years on, with multiple economic changes in the marketplace and new classes, large rule changes in other classes, changes in the entire structure of racing, nobody really knows what works or doesn't. Too many variables, not enough data, amateur analysis.

While your consolidation idea is a logical conclusion for a particular part of the marketplace, where's the data and analysis to support that conclusion? My guess is seat of the pants. It will likely work as well (or not!) as any other "lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" idea tried in the last 20 years, you'll just have no idea why.

[MattFV61]

I ran a FV for almost 20 years and now run a FC. For the biggest bang for the BUCK it is FV. Easy to maintain and fix when you make that stupid move that you will make. It depends on where you are as to the size of field. FV does teach you how to maintain momentum, which is very important, regardless of class.

FC is a very similar group of people as to the FV group. The cars are more complicated to maintain but still doable in the home garage.

Starting out in racing is a learning curve and does take time on the track and in the garage, unless you can afford the arrive and drive route. Eliminating the garage time does take out some the knowledge of the car from the equation. That car knowledge is very important to the professional driver to tell the team what is happening so that the team can fix.

Long winded reply, but I am a supporter of formula cars.

[John LaRue]

In the FWIW column we have driven participation up considerably in FC over the past year. Runoffs entries currently sit at 31. B-Spec has driven their numbers through the roof when they were slated for being pulled only a few years ago. It is as much about the people and the experience as the cars and rules. There is more work to be done.

[EricP]

How many of us started right off in formula cars? I didn’t. Maybe all these Miata drivers are the next wave of FF drivers when they realize they want a real race car…

[BeerBudgetRacing]

The best that we can likely do now is to consolidate – fewer events with larger entries – to make those events more attractive to racers.

While your consolidation idea is a logical conclusion for a particular part of the marketplace, where's the data and analysis to support that conclusion? My guess is seat of the pants. It will likely work as well (or not!) as any other "lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" idea tried in the last 20 years, you'll just have no idea why.

In the "glory days" there was no such thing is Track Days like today. Track days started about 20 years ago so that took the marginal racers out of racing.

We talk about consolidating classes, but that won't happen. Someone will "lose their class" and we're too afraid of losing cars.
Consolidating events is not the answer either. Again, one club wins, another loses.

The only real way is as LaRue suggests. Keep pushing people to your class. That works.
It's not a sit-back approach. Hands get dirty. But it works.

[Pi_guy]

Quite honestly, I do not see any way to go back to the glory days of the 70s and 80s. Those days are gone. The best that we can likely do now is to consolidate – fewer events with larger entries – to make those events more attractive to racers.

I never drove. Rented out a Formula Ford, ran many independents. Always had offers of work, I could pick and choose what I wanted to do. Also assisted events as national tech inspector. I think our biggest worry was multiple events on a weekend would there be enough corner workers there was always enough entrants.

I ran an outreach program trying to get people involved, as a sponsor, race worker or an intern, I was able to get a portion of the town to help sponsor a car. We had parties and fundraisers and interest from non motorsports people. That ship has sailed and has been beaten to death on the rocks.

One of my earlier interns inquired of me if I know anyone that needed help at Lime Rock Vintage, I wished that I could help but most of my contacts have been planted.

I wish I had something really constructive to offer, but the remembering those days and times just make me happy that I was swimming in it.

[BLS]

I started racing FV's when I was 20 years old because the SCCA changed the age from 21 to 18 the year I turned 20 (1973).

The one expensive concession was my dad buying the Zink kit for me at a cost of $1500. I built the car from the kit, I built the engine from VW bug parts scrounged for several hundred dollars in the junk yards. I then bought a cheap used engine from my FV friend. I converted an old horse trailer to an open trailer at a cost of about 50 bucks and pulled it with a cast off car of my dads with 200k miles. I slept in a tent at almost every race. I got better at setting up the car and at building engines. The only pro engine build I ever had was prior to the 1978 runoffs. I was hoping that would bring me home first I bought and scrounged and was given used tires form the front runners until I got closer to the front myself. In 1978 I ran 8 races including the runoffs. I bought 2 new sets of tires. I started while I was in school and spent every dime I earned in the summers on the car. I was fortunate that my parents footed the school bill. My dad, he was investing in a different kind of education, one that has paid dividends over the years.

You can't do all that now. No VW's in the junkyards to speak of, but there are plenty of cars available with pro built motors ready to go. I did it again a few years ago after about a 35 year absence. I bought a used car at 4k and rebuilt it for little money and lots of time. I did OK and had a lot of fun. Life got in my way or I'd still be racing. Maybe next year.

The point - you can do this in FV without spending a fortune - IF you want to do it. You don't need a motor home but it is nice. You don't need a closed trailer but it is nice. You can sleep in a motel at 125 a night or buy a big tent and cot for 125, and use it more than one night. You do not need a 50K truck to pull the FV. Your street car will work. You will have a lot of fun.

[neilca]

I would suggest track days hurt formula cars by excluding them. Most track day organizers do not allow formula cars so that restricts the usability of this type of car. Formula cars can be raced in SCCA and Vintage, not sure about NASA. On the other hand a Miata is welcome all over.

[E1pix]

This really nails it.

10 stars.

I started racing FV's when I was 20 years old because the SCCA changed the age from 21 to 18 the year I turned 20 (1973).

The one expensive concession was my dad buying the Zink kit for me at a cost of $1500. I built the car from the kit, I built the engine from VW bug parts scrounged for several hundred dollars in the junk yards. I then bought a cheap used engine from my FV friend. I converted an old horse trailer to an open trailer at a cost of about 50 bucks and pulled it with a cast off car of my dads with 200k miles. I slept in a tent at almost every race. I got better at setting up the car and at building engines. The only pro engine build I ever had was prior to the 1978 runoffs. I was hoping that would bring me home first I bought and scrounged and was given used tires form the front runners until I got closer to the front myself. In 1978 I ran 8 races including the runoffs. I bought 2 new sets of tires. I started while I was in school and spent every dime I earned in the summers on the car. I was fortunate that my parents footed the school bill. My dad, he was investing in a different kind of education, one that has paid dividends over the years.

You can't do all that now. No VW's in the junkyards to speak of, but there are plenty of cars available with pro built motors ready to go. I did it again a few years ago after about a 35 year absence. I bought a used car at 4k and rebuilt it for little money and lots of time. I did OK and had a lot of fun. Life got in my way or I'd still be racing. Maybe next year.

The point - you can do this in FV without spending a fortune - IF you want to do it. You don't need a motor home but it is nice. You don't need a closed trailer but it is nice. You can sleep in a motel at 125 a night or buy a big tent and cot for 125, and use it more than one night. You do not need a 50K truck to pull the FV. Your street car will work. You will have a lot of fun.

[billtebbutt]

I have owned (sail) boats and I have owned race cars. They are both extremely effective ways of burning through discretionary income.

John, the only similar vice left is a horse.

bt

[chrisw52]

I would suggest track days hurt formula cars by excluding them. Most track day organizers do not allow formula cars so that restricts the usability of this type of car. Formula cars can be raced in SCCA and Vintage, not sure about NASA. On the other hand a Miata is welcome all over.

thank the insurance companies for that...

[BeerBudgetRacing]

thank the insurance companies for that...

It's my understanding the insurance companies don't want to mix OW in a TT run group. Makes sense.
I've talked to a bunch of TDOs and all but one were willing to make a run group for OW if we could get the numbers.

Well, we don't even like mixing OW classes and we barely get 30 cars for a race weekend.
It would be near impossible to get the numbers.

[Pi_guy]

It's my understanding the insurance companies don't want to mix OW in a TT run group. Makes sense.
I've talked to a bunch of TDOs and all but one were willing to make a run group for OW if we could get the numbers.

Well, we don't even like mixing OW classes and we barely get 30 cars for a race weekend.
It would be near impossible to get the numbers.

I have seen mixed run groups at open test days and other places. It is not pretty, and nobody is happy. It is one of those things just just don't work. The complaints go the sedans can't see the formula cars and the formula cars complain the sedans get in the way of their line.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I have seen mixed run groups at open test days and other places. It is not pretty, and nobody is happy. It is one of those things just just don't work. The complaints go the sedans can't see the formula cars and the formula cars complain the sedans get in the way of their line.

I think we've all done it - once.

It's really bad when it's not 'race car only' - like a TDO session - when the drivers simply do not know how to be passed (aware, predictable consistent line, and don't know where they are going!)

It doesn't help the TDO driver gain confidence either. Potential future racer !

[lowside67]

I regularly track my Stohr WF1 in non-competitive events where I am on track with other types of vehicles, either formula cars or sedans. It has not been a bad experience for me, but it requires planning to ensure I am at the front end of the grid, keeping track of my pace and keeping eyes way up if I need clear track to set a lap time, and a hyper focus from me to ensure I am monitoring for cars that might not see me.

I think an experienced driver can do this all fine, but a newer driver who is on the edge of being overwhelmed with the capability and requirements of the car is never going to be able to spare the mental energy to think about the environment around them.

Generally speaking, I think formula car/sports racers (I lump myself in with this given I am just as low and just as fast) should only be on track with sedans when they are experienced enough to do so safely. But I do think many are and it is a shame (but understandably so) that most organizations cannot make these decisions on a case by case and instead have to make blanket rules to keep the lowest common denominator safe.

-Mark

[Jamesbe]

I've done tons of laps with sedans in formula car and vice versa. Never an issue.

Formula driver is way faster than sedan in most cases they can simply wait to pass. If you are too hot headed to wait that's a driver issue not a car one.

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[EYERACE]

NASA here in Florida told me that if I can get about a dozen Formula Cars together, then they will create a grid for us. Nice......real nice........cat herding !! ...and I'm no good at cat herding.
The guys at NASA are busy being successful enough as it is that not only do they not care, they know they don't need to care about open wheel entries. An alternative is they would post on their schedule a grid for open wheel with a note that says NASA would need to have about a dozen entries well before the event to have it happen or that NASA reserves the right to then cancel having an open wheel grid - one would be able to see at motorsportsreg.com the number of entries happening.

[Pi_guy]

I've done tons of laps with sedans in formula car and vice versa. Never an issue.

Formula driver is way faster than sedan in most cases they can simply wait to pass. If you are too hot headed to wait that's a driver issue not a car one.

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That is not a good way to practice or test a car. Most of the formula cars are momentum and slowing down or backing off ruins a lap. We are not talking about commuting to a location we are trying to practice racing....

[Jamesbe]

Sure but 1 lap out of 10 gets messed up.. whatever. Depends on your goal, just testing then you don't need to set lap records do you?

Racing is for racing, lapping and testing are different.

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[Pi_guy]

Sure but 1 lap out of 10 gets messed up.. whatever. Depends on your goal, just testing then you don't need to set lap records do you?

Racing is for racing, lapping and testing are different.

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Do you really understand? Testing is practicing under race conditions not trying to set lap records.

Your happy with a dangerous situation.
Plus it is waste of money if your really trying to test. Have you ever really tested a car? Not just get familiar with track have different items to test.

Ideas like this that don't help the sport. If you think you might get a clean Lap at Lime Rock with sedans on the track your living in a fantasy world.