British GP SPOILER ALERT

[Rick Iverson]

People still watch F1?

I am with you, Pally.

As well as MLB, NFL, NBA. If politics ain’t your business, keep your business out of politics.

[Rick Iverson]

In this case (MV vs LH) my opinion was that it was a "racing incident, no penalty deserved or required."

Yep, I threw the BS flag immediately. IMHO, LH had the line.

[Garry Sharp]

When Max made the decision to dive for the apex (I'm not even sure that was the exact racing line) he knew that unless Lewis basically stopped, he had ended his own race.

Garry

[lance3556]

Back to the original question, I think they should all start the sprint race on the same tires. Give each team 1 set of the softest compound for the weekend and ensure they start on a full fuel load. see how the manage the setup and the tires. They may need to bring more spare parts...

[DD16]

Note relative positions to curbing.

[Peter Olivola]

Note relative positions to curbing.

Post impact "relative positions" are meaningless.

[chrisw52]

In car video, Hamilton at 8:46, then Max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_EJHnNuLQ

race analysis, but this video includes cockpit video from both cars. Max's steering inputs look interesting... https://youtu.be/Rp0GG4y3is8?t=319

[DD16]

Peter, if you believe that in this particular view when we know what the in car camera then you are not combining all the information. How did lLwis get out there unless he couldn't hold his line? He drove out there? Get a life.

[DaveW]

Peter, if you believe that in this particular view when we know what the in car camera then you are not combining all the information. How did Lewis get out there unless he couldn't hold his line? He drove out there? Get a life.

Yes, before the contact, Lewis was not as close to the inside curb as he might have been, but they came together LF to RR. That caused Lewis' car to oversteer, and in correcting for that he would naturally wind up further off the curb than he started. So Peter's comment is, IMO, valid.

[DaveW]

race analysis, but this video includes cockpit video from both cars. Max's steering inputs look interesting... https://youtu.be/Rp0GG4y3is8?t=319

Indeed. MV, IMO, tried to pinch LH tighter to the curb just before the contact to make sure LH could not maintain more speed than MV on the exit. IMO, that was the final action leading to contact.

Similar "reactive" moves are not permitted in many racing series.

[FVRacer21]

How many times has a car gone down the inside, understeered to the outside and the car on the outside cut under with a switchback?

Hamilton was off the apex, but Max's trajectory was towards the apex.....or at least where Hamilton would have been.

You can be dead right, and with a 33 point lead......

Why do I keep hearing Bruce say "Red Mist"....

ChrisZ

[Kazis31]

https://www.facebook.com/fred.kalkhu...2639956940140/

This is true professionals take on situation....

[BorkRacing]

What I see here is people justifying MV or LH based on their "liking" them over wether they made mistakes.
MV has a history of cutting in and LH has a history of LF/RR hits to remove a car in front of him.

Neither are great moves but in racing if you are ahead you have the corner. End of story.

[chrisw52]

How many times has a car gone down the inside, understeered to the outside and the car on the outside cut under with a switchback?

Hamilton was off the apex, but Max's trajectory was towards the apex.....or at least where Hamilton would have been.

You can be dead right, and with a 33 point lead......

Why do I keep hearing Bruce say "Red Mist"....

ChrisZ

yep it will be an interesting season for sure. Especially if Crash verstappen and Hami keep taking each other out leaving Norris with the championship

(stranger things have happened)

[fitfan]

del

[HB280ZT]

I tried to stay out of this but I couldn't.

Comments were made about apex of the corner and how Ham was off of the apex. One of the talking heads said during the race that Max took the apex close to the curb while Ham was taking the apex almost a cars width off of the curb. So that being said they were not taking the same line around that corner. So how much was Ham really off of his line after Max tried to pinch him into the wall before they got to the corner?

Also in the video from Max car he turned the steering wheel to the right 2 times going into the corner. So why did he do that except to try and pinch Ham again and hope he backed out like he has done a few other times this race and season.

I still think racing incident but they had to say someone was at fault because of the horrendous crash. Just my .02!

[fitfan]

del

[alangbaker]

I tried to stay out of this but I couldn't.

Comments were made about apex of the corner and how Ham was off of the apex. One of the talking heads said during the race that Max took the apex close to the curb while Ham was taking the apex almost a cars width off of the curb. So that being said they were not taking the same line around that corner. So how much was Ham really off of his line after Max tried to pinch him into the wall before they got to the corner?

Also in the video from Max car he turned the steering wheel to the right 2 times going into the corner. So why did he do that except to try and pinch Ham again and hope he backed out like he has done a few other times this race and season.

I still think racing incident but they had to say someone was at fault because of the horrendous crash. Just my .02!

Review the video of Hamilton's lap in qualifying for the sprint:



When he gets to the apex of Copse, he is just touching the white line. So the argument that this was just Hamilton running a different line doesn't wash for me. Hamilton was about half a car-width wide of his line.

As for Max turning his steering wheel to the right "twice", well... ...yeah. The first time, he realizes Hamilton is there and eases his steering, and then he of course has to actually steer into the corner.

It comes down to this for me:

When two cars both have space and both would like to take lines that would result in contact...

...who is obliged to give way?

Either driver in this incident could have backed out of it and then driven a line that would have avoided contact.

Neither driver can say that he didn't have room into which he could have driven to do the avoiding.

So does the lead car have to just give it up...

...or does the overtaking driver have the greater obligation to stay clear?

I was taught, and my rulebook explicitly states:

"The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely."

If someone wants to change that rule to:

"If the overtaking driver gets alongside by 50% or more, the lead driver must give way"

...OK, I guess...


...but personally, I believe the car ahead should have a little more right to the road than the car overtaking.

[fitfan]

the mistake Max made was believing Lewis would race him clean and control his car, lewis tried to pull a "Gilles" but buggered it up. Max gave him good room, but look how extremely far off the inside line that lewis choose, is off that line. Leclerc, is one the line, lewis is already way across Max here by multiple car widths. poor driving by lewis, poor judgement by max to think lewis would hold his inside line.

[TimH]

Max gave him good room, but look how extremely far off the inside line that lewis choose, is off that line. Leclerc, is one the line, lewis is already way across Max here by multiple car widths. poor driving by lewis, poor judgement by max to think lewis would hold his inside line.

See Post #46. The in-car video looks to me like Hamilton was trying to take almost exactly the line you show for Leclerc. One commentator has said that previous races he was using an earlier apex there, so I can't say whether this was such a great time to go later.

[Garey Guzman]

While it's fun to speculate and pretend we have enough information to make a judgement, I can easily accept the Stewards decision because
a) they have more experience than me,
b) their experience is at a much higher level than I'll ever get to
c) they have video and telemetry available to a very fine degree.

To make an accurate assessment without all that is purely for self-indulgent fun.

[fitfan]

See Post #46. The in-car video looks to me like Hamilton was trying to take almost exactly the line you show for Leclerc. One commentator has said that previous races he was using an earlier apex there, so I can't say whether this was such a great time to go later.

the in car is obvious, he over cooked it / over bombed it, and couldn't make the corner, washed out the front into max and missed the corner by many car widths. sux to be max in this case.

[Charles Warner]

Agreed, but Lewis DID back out - he just barely misjudged how much was needed. And Max misjudged what would happen if he kept his line.

Again, IMO, racing incident. If the consequences were not so harsh for Max, there likely would not have been a penalty. But the stewards, in that case, felt they had to do something, so they slapped Lewis' wrist with the 10-sec penalty.

I think if you look at the rearward shots from Max it will become apparent he was caught out. IMO, Hamilton sold him a dummy by slightly jinking to the outside, to which Max responded by moving to his left to block the outside move. Hamilton quickly stuck his nose up the inside. When Max realized he had been sold said dummy, he only had one move which was to move toward the apex and try to elbow Hamilton out of the way. Split second (and, IMO, wrong) decision, for which he paid dearly (1.8 million quid)

Total racing incident. Penalty was a placating move, but not justified.

[mmi16]

While it's fun to speculate and pretend we have enough information to make a judgement, I can easily accept the Stewards decision because
a) they have more experience than me,
b) their experience is at a much higher level than I'll ever get to
c) they have video and telemetry available to a very fine degree.

To make an accurate assessment without all that is purely for self-indulgent fun.

The Stewards took too long to come up with their 'decision'.

The Decision should have been implemented on the Restart. Not 15 laps in.