Newbie in Ohio looking for a drive

[FasterRam]

EDIT: CAR ACQUIRED:-D

Hi all -

38 year old burgeoning mid-life crisis F1 fan looking to get behind an open wheel myself for the first time.

I live in Northeast Ohio, not terribly far from Mid-Ohio. I preferably want something race ready that I can learn maintenance on as it falls apart, I don't have the experience to fix something up yet. I'd say I'm expecting to spend at least $5k for that to start... budget could get a bit higher for the right car. I want to buy once and not regret waiting/spending on something a little better later.

Bonus points if it comes with a trailer... I'm not particular on model yet, so I'm open to anything while I'm learning. Willing to drive anywhere east of the rockies if I have to for the right car.

Just seems like a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to not only my first drive but getting to know some folks.

Thanks everyone,
Joe

[pacratt]

Save yourself alot of grief (and ALOT of $$$) and try a Vee rental for a drivers' school weekend.
There are a few available for modern vees in SCCA and vintage vees with VSCDA.
It's a cost-effective way of finding what you want / like without burying yourself in a big investment.
Glenn

[FasterRam]

Save yourself alot of grief (and ALOT of $$$) and try a Vee rental for a drivers' school weekend.
There are a few available for modern vees in SCCA and vintage vees with VSCDA.
It's a cost-effective way of finding what you want / like without burying yourself in a big investment.
Glenn

But, my wife is giving me the thumbs up now...

[problemchild]

But, my wife is giving me the thumbs up now...

Sorry to disagree with another Apexspeeder, but you will love it, so don't spend money on a rental. Put more money into buying a better car! Or commit to become a regular renter instead of a buyer.

[JHerscher]

While I have heard of some people who have purchased a car and scared themselves the first weekend out, those are not very common.

The advice you will find on these forums is priceless.

Go to a lot of events, ask people what they recommend - for a good starter car, and if the sky's the limit. Keep in mind most people are partial to their rides! I personally spent a lot of my youth at Nelson Ledges, Mid Ohio, VIR, Charlotte.

Go to every event you can. Take a potential crewmember with you. I presume you are a member of whatever organization you want to participate in. Ask to sit in cars, volunteer to crew for somebody, just immerse yourself in the sport and you will be surprised how much knowledge will rub off.

When you do take the plunge, remember a few things.
1-it is not an investment. Just write the money you spent on it off. It could easily be completely destroyed in your first weekend. (think fire as an example)
2-Get intimate with it. Apply what you've learned, and indeed bribe some of your new buddies to help you with the prep work.
3- When you do get to sit in the car, spend a LOT of time getting comfortable in it. Seat, belts, steering wheel, gear lever, brake, clutch, and throttle positions and operating range, etc. If it is at all possible, try to get belted into the car by yourself. You never know when that will come in handy.
4-Pretty is nice, but pretty isn't necessary. Don't spend too much time on the bodywork, paint, etc. It will get damaged, in a small or potentially large way.
5-Clean, however, is essential. Wash the car after every weekend, vacuum first, wash, then vacuum again. Then blast the water off with a leaf blower or air hose. A good spritz with WD40 will keep oxidation to a minimum. Then a good once over to check for damage/things needing serviced/loose fasteners, etc.
6-Prepare at the shop, adjust at the track. You don't want to be grubbing about on the cold, wet Ohio ground in a rain shower.
7-Driver's school is for you to learn driving, not mechanic-ing. See if you can coerce a qualified helper to deal with between session maintenance, gassing up, airing tires, etc.
8-You don't need a covered trailer and 2 ton pickup truck to go racing. I trailer FC on an open trailer, behind an Audi A3 Sportback, and have room for all the tools and supplies I need, plus crew.

Others will give a lot more advice, and quite likely some of it will disagree with my thoughts. That's ok. You get to decide what you want to listen to.

The big thing here is that you have sanction, so go for it - but be informed first.

John

[Pi_guy]

Save yourself alot of grief (and ALOT of $$$) and try a Vee rental for a drivers' school weekend.
There are a few available for modern vees in SCCA and vintage vees with VSCDA.
It's a cost-effective way of finding what you want / like without burying yourself in a big investment.
Glenn

Just do rentals until you have a clue.
Then be prepared to spend more money than you ever budgeted for.

[mikey]

Buy the best condition formula enterprise FE car you can afford. I promise you won’t regret it and will never look back.

[OneWayOut]

Save yourself alot of grief (and ALOT of $$$) and try a Vee rental for a drivers' school weekend.

What's the going rate for that now? I would have assumed you'd blow half his $5k budget before the weekend was out.

[TimH]

That budget gets you nothing but grief. If you find a truly race-ready car it will cost you more than that, and you should plan at least 50% over the purchase price within the first few months of ownership. Personal safety gear alone is going to eat a couple thousand $ unless you go to eBay.

Mid-Ohio is a beautiful place to spectate. Go, meet folks, maybe offer to help crew and choose your tribe rather than your particular formula. Before you know it someone will be selling something you can't live without. However, I think I can almost guarantee your first car will not be your last unless you make a huge mistake and leave the sport too soon.

[FVRacer21]

That budget gets you nothing but grief. If you find a truly race-ready car it will cost you more than that, and you should plan at least 50% over the purchase price within the first few months of ownership. Personal safety gear alone is going to eat a couple thousand $ unless you go to eBay.

Mid-Ohio is a beautiful place to spectate. Go, meet folks, maybe offer to help crew and choose your tribe rather than your particular formula. Before you know it someone will be selling something you can't live without. However, I think I can almost guarantee your first car will not be your last unless you make a huge mistake and leave the sport too soon.

beat me to it. $7500 will get a decent FV, another $2k for safety gear and $2k for tools, tow gear etc.

then entry fees, maintenance and travel expenses.

so 12k is the ante - of course you can do for less but will you have as much fun?

note - with interest rates being low - if you can find a personal loan though local credit union you could spread out cost of car. Just be prepared in case something happens to be paying off a loan on a garage sculpture.....

ChrisZ

ps - how is the autocross scene out there? A lot cheaper and safer to rent a car or share.

[LenFC11]

Wrong hobby if that is your budget

many people spend that in a weekend just in running costs. Certainly by your second weekend that is gone

heck. That budget barely gets you a decent kart

reality hits hard in racing

[FasterRam]

Wrong hobby if that is your budget

many people spend that in a weekend just in running costs. Certainly by your second weekend that is gone

heck. That budget barely gets you a decent kart

reality hits hard in racing

The real budget goes up to around $10k'ish for the car. Just, you never lead with your max amount yah? Maybe I took the wrong approach in the first post since this is more advice than anyone trying to sell me car. Too bad I can't edit it.

[Offcamber1]

You have a cool wife if she is encouraging you, particularly if she intends to come along and help.

Some very good advice above. If you find a decent running car in your budget range and buy it, run it at a few autocross events first just to get familiar.

You can have a helluvalot of fun with an ugly but well prepped, reliable car and in FV there will always be somebody to race with.

Remember: The most important thing is to have a cool paint scheme on your helmet!

[veeten]

Please come and visit the Challenge Cup race at Mid Ohio April 30 through May 2
There be 30 or so vees at every price point and age.
The current 2 time champion is driving a 10 year old home built copy
all the way up to Carbon fiber one offs
If you look at site at bottom of Apexspeed that will get you all the particulars on the group.
Look at the vees for sale and have recently sold to get an idea on price point.
Looking Fwd to seeing you there.

[FasterRam]

Please come and visit the Challenge Cup race at Mid Ohio April 30 through May 2
There be 30 or so vees at every price point and age.
The current 2 time champion is driving a 10 year old home built copy
all the way up to Carbon fiber one offs
If you look at site at bottom of Apexspeed that will get you all the particulars on the group.
Look at the vees for sale and have recently sold to get an idea on price point.
Looking Fwd to seeing you there.

Oh wow! That's the ticket right there! I wasn't thinking there'd be anything there til the Vintage Grand Prix in June and I'm not available then. This is GREAT news! Thank you so much.

You have a cool wife if she is encouraging you, particularly if she intends to come along and help.

She really is the best!

[B Farnham]

Hi all -

38 year old burgeoning mid-life crisis F1 fan looking to get behind an open wheel myself for the first time.

I live in Northeast Ohio, not terribly far from Mid-Ohio. I preferably want something race ready that I can learn maintenance on as it falls apart, I don't have the experience to fix something up yet. I'd say I'm expecting to spend at least $5k for that to start... budget could get a bit higher for the right car. I want to buy once and not regret waiting/spending on something a little better later.

Bonus points if it comes with a trailer... I'm not particular on model yet, so I'm open to anything while I'm learning. Willing to drive anywhere east of the rockies if I have to for the right car.

Just seems like a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to not only my first drive but getting to know some folks.

Thanks everyone,
Joe

My father and I have a shop in Medina and would be more than happy to let you come and see our FVs. We've learned a lot over the years, and could steer you in the right direction.

If you do buy a car I could help you prepping it and such.

Feel free to email me at farnham1123@aol.com.

Brian Farnham

[FasterRam]

My father and I have a shop in Medina and would be more than happy to let you come and see our FVs. We've learned a lot over the years, and could steer you in the right direction.

If you do buy a car I could help you prepping it and such.

Feel free to email me at farnham1123@aol.com.

Brian Farnham

Wow. Yah, man! I'm just down the road in Wooster. I'll send you an email.

[Kazis31]

for something "race ready" and i .m gonna use big quotes...
You will spend 30k plu s
on car.
trailer.
gear and support equipment .
if that number scares you ......
Don't do it.
In racing you really get what you pay for
in FF 10 k will get you project
in FC 10k will gets you project
IN CF 10k will get you good down payment.
FE 10k will be 50% of project car.
And it keeps going.

You can burn 15k a year doing just track days.

as always two cents.



Most club racers spend low income families yearly living cost on racing per year.

[t walgamuth]

Autocross is a lot cheaper to do I think. If you start with it and are using a ff or fv you can move on to track racing if and when your budget allows.

I have five kids and am retired now but have enough to do autocross. I am not brave enough to risk track racing with these lovely cars which really have zero protection in case you get oily side up or worse T boned..

The biggest cost is tires which you can run all year if you don't mind sliding around a bit toward the end. Actually getting there and back might actually cost more than tires.

I have a pickup, an enclosed trailer and the racer. Total investment about 50K but if I quit doing it I can get most of my money back by selling things off. The truck and trailer are also useful for other things.

[B Farnham]

for something "race ready" and i .m gonna use big quotes...
You will spend 30k plu s
on car.
trailer.
gear and support equipment .
if that number scares you ......
Don't do it.
In racing you really get what you pay for
in FF 10 k will get you project
in FC 10k will gets you project
IN CF 10k will get you good down payment.
FE 10k will be 50% of project car.
And it keeps going.

You can burn 15k a year doing just track days.

as always two cents.



Most club racers spend low income families yearly living cost on racing per year.

That's the beauty of FV, you can get a race ready car for 6-8k (sometimes cheaper if you get lucky).

Cars that are 30 years old can be just as competitive as new cars.

Too often people act as though you have to have an enclosed trailer and a big tow vehicle. You can get away with an open trailer and a regular sedan in some cases.

The FV community is always willing to help out with spares and advise. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Brian

[pacratt]

Definitel WASN'T trying to talk you out of a vee.
This what I meant. Sizing vees by sitting in them is one thing...DRIVING different vees will tell you which one is most comfortable for YOU. Otherwise, you may follow my route which was to buy one I liked...then spend every off-season doing mods to make it fit me.
Get out to races near you & connect with vee people...you'll find almost every one will spend time talking with you & letting you sit in their rides. Your head will explode with all the helpful info you receive. (not to mention the volumes of hilarious stories).
Glenn

[problemchild]

Sherman (VeeTen) and Brian are the people to get you on track with a decent FV for under $10K. Let them help you. And that Mid-Ohio FRP FVCC event will be one of the best FV (and OW) events of the year!

Of course you will go over budget ..... what decent hobby or recreational activity does not?

[djones]

Your going to need a license. Check out Waterford Hill road racing. Their school is right around the corner with classroom session on April 10th. You can rent a car for the event.

[DanW]

Sherman (VeeTen) and Brian are the people to get you on track with a decent FV for under $10K. Let them help you. And that Mid-Ohio FRP FVCC event will be one of the best FV (and OW) events of the year!

Of course you will go over budget ..... what decent hobby or recreational activity does not?

So true. My fellow FF buds call their team "Overbudget racin' "

[TimH]

"Lord, when I die, please don't let my wife sell my stuff for what I told her I paid for it."

[E1pix]

Joe:

I’m a 60 year-old, lifetime fan (58 years this June), longtime karter, and totally get “the crisis.”

We almost bought a Vee, from Brian, two years ago, after spending the Indy Runoffs week and a Regional at Mid-Ohio getting to know he and his parents. The timing wasn’t right financially but almost is now.

I’m adding to the above recommendations. They’re all great people, and so far as prep and speed, know Brian would have won two Runoffs of the mere four they’ve run if wins only came to the most-deserving people.

I’ll add when budgeting and looking down the road, it’s easy to forget there’s money at the end if you’re selling stuff worthy of the original investment.

But in the end, if you can do it now, by all means do it now. Things can happen if you wait like we did, and if doing it over at your age we would have.

And as with all things VW — we’ve lived in an ‘84 Westfalia for nearly eight years — learn to work on it yourself so you have money for food. ;-)

Best of Luck. The Vee crowd rocks.

[carpster006]

My Vee is for sale now. I just got the motor rebuilt, and fired it up for the first time last night. Its the white, green, and blue Citation listed on Apexspeed. My asking price is over $5k, and a trailer doesn't come with it, but the car really is turn key. There are things you can upgrade on it, but any Vee you find in the lower end price range is going to have opportunities for improvement. I only started racing Vee for the last two years in the Challenge Cup, and my car is consistently in the top half of a very competitive field. Its a great starter car, and I've had two very experienced friends help me work all the bugs out of it over the last two years. Brian knows my car well (I've bought some of his old citation parts for it), so you are welcome to ask him about my car when you pay him a visit.

Also, if you run Challenge Cup, expect to spend about $1000 per weekend when averaged over the course of the season. That includes cheap hotels with a mix of camping during cooler race weekends, travel costs, maintenance, race fuel, repairs, etc. And as others mentioned, new gear also costs about $2000, so account for that. I bought a $1000 landscape trailer that converted well to a car carrier.

[carpster006]

Joe:

But in the end, if you can do it now, by all means do it now. Things can happen if you wait like we did, and if doing it over at your age we would have.

.

Second this - I waited super long to get into FV. I was always waiting for the right time financially to get started. The answer is that there really isn't ever a great time financially to get started. Racing is never a smart choice financially. We do it because we love it, not because Dave Ramsey said its a good idea. So long as it doesn't put your personal life into financial chaos, take the plunge!

[billtebbutt]

There's never a "right" or perfect time in life for most things worth doing. Going back to school, quitting your current job because you can't stand the culture but have nowhere else to go, getting your own place, starting your own business, taking a sabbatical, having kids, grad school, downsizing, hiking through Europe, retirement..... And racing.

So get on with it!

cheers,
BT

[DanW]

There's never a "right" or perfect time in life for most things worth doing. Going back to school, quitting your current job because you can't stand the culture but have nowhere else to go, getting your own place, starting your own business, taking a sabbatical, having kids, grad school, downsizing, hiking through Europe, retirement..... And racing.

So get on with it!

cheers,
BT

@FasterRam If you haven't noticed by now, this place is filled with enablers and codependents....

[FasterRam]

@FasterRam If you haven't noticed by now, this place is filled with enablers and codependents....

I love it.

“there’s never a right time” was the same advice we got about having kids. I’ve got three now and no regrets. Bodes well for the car.

[E1pix]

I’ve got three now....

Engineer, tire changer, push car driver (Sorry, meant “transporter pilot”).

[triumph76]

When I saw my first race at Road America, I was 15. I said 'some day I'm going to do that'. I began racing when I was 51. I regret I used too many excuses for not starting sooner.

With money, tomorrow I can go to work and make more. Time doesn't quite work that way.

[RyanD316]

We have a Vee and trailer for sale right now!

I sent you a PM about it!

Feel free to reach out to me whenever, we would love to get you going!

It's a great opportunity for you to get a race ready car and trailer that you could pull with a mini van if you need to!

[grapefarmeral]

Time is not a renewable resource, so if you really want to race, Formula Vee is the class and now is the time. Every sport has it's cost so if you wanted to take up golf on a big scale you could join a club where the yearly fees are $100K and a buy a set of Honma’s Beres clubs for $60K. Or you could go to a free public course (there are a few) and buy second hand clubs for $100... Challenge Cup is where you'll get the most bang for the buck...

[shifty556]

I have a Protoform P2 currently at Varacins' shop in Burlington, WI

It's getting all sorted out and ready by them, and it'll be for sale in probably a couple weeks. Hit me up if you'd like. Jason Siemens on Facebook, or PM me your contact info.

[FasterRam]

I have a Protoform P2 currently at Varacins' shop in Burlington, WI

It's getting all sorted out and ready by them, and it'll be for sale in probably a couple weeks. Hit me up if you'd like. Jason Siemens on Facebook, or PM me your contact info.

Sending you a PM after this post.

Hung out with the Farnhams today at their garage. Super nice people just like many of you said. Pretty sure I’m shooting for Challenge Cup next year. Hoping to grab a car as soon as the right one pops up (don’t want just a roller/but also not worried about winning yet) so I can get trained/licensed. My inclination is not to rent, rather put that $ in my first car. Looks like I just missed out on RyanD’s sale.
That one might have fit the bill. Keeping eyes open for the next one.

[TimH]

My inclination is not to rent, rather put that $ in my first car.

Three possibilities:

1) You wad up the car and are out the whole purchase price, which you would have had to pay the owner if you'd rented.

2) You eventually sell the car for about what you paid. A little less if you're in a hurry. A little more if you greatly improved it.

3) You keep the car and whatever you would have paid to rent.

Have fun!

[FasterRam]

Responding to my own thread to say I'm still looking.

[veeten]

As was posted early in post .
Go to Challenge Cup Site.
Several cars available from members.
Did you make it to Mid Ohio to visit our event>
Lots of folks ready to help