Historic Formula Ford

[MarkieMark]

I would like to thank eveyone for thier comments to my previous post. The concensus was that a Titan was the better car by far when compared to a Lotus Type 61. Would be interested in comments on other brands of Historic Formula Fords, or is Titan just the best, noting that the Lotus Type 69 is the one exception I am aware of. Car would be for a person 5'5" and 135 lbs.

[BGG]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rdable-racing/

[t walgamuth]

Egan always has an excellent way of telling a story. He is a person I would take a good bit of trouble to hear in person and hopefully shake his hand. I'd say that two thirds of the cars I have owned he has as well.

[TimH]

Thanks for that link. I didn't realize Egan was back in the game again. His other piece on the Zen of the Hewland MK gear change should be required reading.

[Garey Guzman]

When I started looking for an HFF, I didn't have any particular manufacturer loyalty. I first looked at which cars won the Runoffs back in the day:
Caldwell D9
Techno
Titan Mk6
Hawke DL2B

Then I looked at the cars at the front of the British HSCC championships. To me, that is a good indicator of where the car COULD be, if well-driven and well-prepped. As mentioned in that previous thread, the driver makes the most difference. In last year's championship, the top 3 were:
Merlyn Mk 20
March 709
Royale RP3
Looking down the list, the Merlyn Mk 20 makes up 5 of the top 10 cars! Interestingly, no Titans.

All that research beck in early 2018 and I ended up with a March 719 that popped up. I liked the fact it was built by an F1 manufacturer and that it was unique. I'm happy with the car and have a blast driving on the treaded tires.

[t walgamuth]

Thanks for that link. I didn't realize Egan was back in the game again. His other piece on the Zen of the Hewland MK gear change should be required reading.

He no longer does his monthly column but does cameo articles on a fairly regular basis.

Where was the Zen piece published? I don't remember that one.

[bob darcey]

Mark, there are "good" cars in the back of the pack and there are "lesser" cars at the front. Nearly any car can be developed and be competitive--it's about car and driver development, not the brand. We have a great mix in RMVR where the top two VFF guys are driving a Wink WDF1 and a Lotus 61. Cruise Youtube for HSCC results and your list of "competitive" VFF's will expand.

[TimH]

Where was the Zen piece published? I don't remember that one.

Sorry but I ran across it online about 6 years ago, think it dated to around 2010, probably Car & Diver. My searches come up empty, but somewhere I acquired a .pdf ("Through A Gearbox, Darkly") I could send you offline.

[Ralph Z.]

Mark, there are "good" cars in the back of the pack and there are "lesser" cars at the front. Nearly any car can be developed and be competitive--it's about car and driver development, not the brand. We have a great mix in RMVR where the top two VFF guys are driving a Wink WDF1 and a Lotus 61. Cruise Youtube for HSCC results and your list of "competitive" VFF's will expand.

Agree. It's all about the driver. If you have well developed driving skills, then, you might get that edge with a Titan. But, if you're just starting out you might get frustrated with a car that you expect to be at the front of the grid but are unable to get it there.

[TimH]

As Egan points out, there's something to be said for a Club Ford. The expense to buy is less, so the anxiety you might wreck it is lighter. If you just have to have that cigar body look, you can get one of Gordy's conversions for the always-reasonable (given the immediate availability of factory replacement parts) Crossle' 30 and 40 series cars.

Just sayin'

[kevskisps]

Hi Mark, the best Historic Formula Fords are:

Elden, Crossle, Hawke, Merlyn, Titan, Lotus, Alexis, March, Royale, Palliser, Lola, Macon etc etc. In no particular order.

They are all great cars and there is no killer, must have car. I've been racing them for years (multiple decade even) and seen people win in all makes, just like they did in the 70s.

Merlyns have a great following in the UK as they did back in the 70s and are great cars. I'm bias as I've owned and raced one for 25 years. But I've also seen Lotus 51s win in the right hand. Also look at Danny Baker in the Crossflow cup in the US, a Lotus 61 can be peddled at the front.

Strangely there are not many Titans in the UK, most seem to be on your side of the pond. But are great cars and would win in the UK with the right driver and development.


Choose with your heart, support for where you are located and enjoy. They are great cars to drive and race.

[tstrong]

Hi Mark, the best Historic Formula Fords are:

Elden, Crossle, Hawke, Merlyn, Titan, Lotus, Alexis, March, Royale, Palliser, Lola, Macon etc etc. In no particular order.

They are all great cars and there is no killer, must have car. I've been racing them for years (multiple decade even) and seen people win in all makes, just like they did in the 70s.

Merlyns have a great following in the UK as they did back in the 70s and are great cars. I'm bias as I've owned and raced one for 25 years. But I've also seen Lotus 51s win in the right hand. Also look at Danny Baker in the Crossflow cup in the US, a Lotus 61 can be peddled at the front.

Strangely there are not many Titans in the UK, most seem to be on your side of the pond. But are great cars and would win in the UK with the right driver and development.


Choose with your heart, support for where you are located and enjoy. They are great cars to drive and race.

Totally agree there are many solid cars any of which can win with the right driver and development. What I would add is that Crossle, Titan, Merlyn, Lotus likely have a little better parts availability due to popularity and marque support groups. Not a huge deal but can save you some time and frustration down the road. Also, buy the best car you can afford because “improving” a not so nice car will cost you far more than buying one done correctly. Todd

[EffOne]

MM,

You start out with a great advantage: at 5'5" – you will fit perfectly in any FF ever made.

In some regions (like Southern California), the FF classes are so competitive, it may as well be an SCCA group. I don't mean that as a dig on the drivers' respect for vintage racing etiquette and rules compared to non-vintage racing (on the contrary). But...there is such an outsized concentration on winning that it tends to narrow the car brand choices a bit. Just seems like a Titan/Crossle/Swift convention (and don't me started on the Swifts and the "post-vintage" Formula Ford class, but, at this point, I suppose we're lucky that the year cut-off isn't 2012...).

Perhaps this is just what happens when a particular club's FF class is comprised of people who have been racing each other for many years, rarely has any rookies and approximately 90% of the drivers have stood on a podium before. It's just crazy competitive. So take that into consideration: What are your racing goals? What is the FF group like in your club?

Selfishly, as a spectator and as someone looking at cars in the pits, I just wish there was a bit more variety of brands. The range of different cars is what I love about vintage racing. And what cars get the most spectator interest? They are usually the cars you rarely see. Appease the car-nerd gods.

And most FF's have such similar specifications that the driver talent and set-up count for so much. So personally, I'd love to see a Nike, a Techno, an Alexis, a [SIZE=2]Royale... [/SIZE]And if you see a car that you just fall in love with and think its beauty and uniqueness outweighs your personal need to win the race, buy it! I'm of the philosophy that vintage racing is supposed to be about fun, passion, beauty and rarity. Other folks would say that's what car shows are for and when it comes to vintage racing, get the best tool for the job.

Neither approach is right or wrong. It's you.

I do have to add a disclaimer: I found out the hard way that there are a few key car spec differences in a couple of the brands. The early Eldens and Lolas have shorter wheelbases than most FF's which is a pretty key specification. I drove an Elden and a Caldwell and the difference in handling was very (very) noticeable. Since I was only running on "fast" tracks with long straights and mostly very fast turns, the Elden was not the best choice. The Caldwell was much more forgiving, allowing me to drive right through some "oops" moments that the Elden would not have appreciated. But...perhaps a different chassis set-up would have compensated for this issue on my Elden. The point is, that the types of track you will be running on could also effect the choice of car.

And parts availably, as Mr. Strong mentioned, is a very reasonable consideration.

Everything people have said on this post is very relevant.

Be sure to let us know what you do.

[Jerry Kehoe]

I can hardly imagine what it would be like racing my old Lotus 51 (early) with it's Renault gearbox and wet sump (swinging pickup) in any of the groups! If you have any of the early ones the enjoyment would have to be simply driving it, which is really part of vintage "racing" anyway. Didn't know it at the time but a new set of slicks may have made me a star in those days! Car came with treaded superhard really old Goodyear tires but it never occurred to me as I had no idea! Besides could not afford new tires anyway!